Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
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I thought you would be able to see it better if we used the word Righteousness. And I did it on purpose.
"I will say to them, I never knew you. Depart from me, you that DON'T WORK RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Now take that statement and apply it to Romans 9;
Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Now this should be pretty easy. We see that those that work at the law don't WORK Righteousness.
But those who didn't work at the law, but have faith in Christ DO WORK Righteousness.
How can that be?
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Furthermore;
Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Having begun in the Spirit by faith in Christ, are you now made perfect by the flesh, by your work at the law?
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Is someone who has faith in Christ but DOES NOT work at the law does that make them lawless?
God Forbid, we are the ones that establish the law.
Not the ones who work at the law and think that makes them "law keepers".
"I will say to them, I never knew you. Depart from me, you that DON'T WORK RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Now take that statement and apply it to Romans 9;
Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Now this should be pretty easy. We see that those that work at the law don't WORK Righteousness.
But those who didn't work at the law, but have faith in Christ DO WORK Righteousness.
How can that be?
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Furthermore;
Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Having begun in the Spirit by faith in Christ, are you now made perfect by the flesh, by your work at the law?
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Is someone who has faith in Christ but DOES NOT work at the law does that make them lawless?
God Forbid, we are the ones that establish the law.
Not the ones who work at the law and think that makes them "law keepers".
Had they "never came to saving faith" they would not be "falling back" they would have just remained.
How can you possibly know this when you can't even "receive" or "accept" the first two simple facts that they are not working toward salvation, and are justified by Christ. It is not they who do not believe what they claim IT IS YOU who do not believe what they claim and you are "with different words" calling them LIARS.
Is following the law, lawful? though maybe not profitable.
No, An answer you hate so much you will not accept it and continue through your willful defiance to the truth to wrongfully accuse, having been told numerous times you are mistaken in that thought. Your defense is there are others. Fine, then to avoid being a false witness please make sure when replying to someone who doesn't not to and those who do to.
Who exactly can not accept this fact?
Where
Now obeying the law is okay?
How can you possibly know this when you can't even "receive" or "accept" the first two simple facts that they are not working toward salvation, and are justified by Christ. It is not they who do not believe what they claim IT IS YOU who do not believe what they claim and you are "with different words" calling them LIARS.
Is following the law, lawful? though maybe not profitable.
No, An answer you hate so much you will not accept it and continue through your willful defiance to the truth to wrongfully accuse, having been told numerous times you are mistaken in that thought. Your defense is there are others. Fine, then to avoid being a false witness please make sure when replying to someone who doesn't not to and those who do to.
Who exactly can not accept this fact?
Where
Now obeying the law is okay?
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Us to, don't you just hate that?
I don't know who "SHE" is, who is she?
There is nothing that could break me away from THE LORD
You would need to actually put yourself out there and write a post to deal in any meat. But if you are scared, I will promise not to be mean, if that is the problem. Though I suspect it goes a whole lot deeper than anything like that. But maybe not, it is hard to put yourself out there, so much easier to correct others papers. You should probably just keep doing what you are doing.
So what do we do after the big step of coming into belief, and acceptance and baptism, after all the Faith and Grace and Salvation and righteousness and justification and sanctification is given us, what are the next 5 steps in your most learned opinion?
Does it feel, I don't know, so many words come to mind, I'll go with awkward knowing you are responding to someone who never sees them? Does it feel like having a battle with an un armed woman? I would think so. But that is just me. Really looking forward to the wisdom and knowledge you are going to impart. It has been so long.
I don't know who "SHE" is, who is she?
There is nothing that could break me away from THE LORD
You would need to actually put yourself out there and write a post to deal in any meat. But if you are scared, I will promise not to be mean, if that is the problem. Though I suspect it goes a whole lot deeper than anything like that. But maybe not, it is hard to put yourself out there, so much easier to correct others papers. You should probably just keep doing what you are doing.
So what do we do after the big step of coming into belief, and acceptance and baptism, after all the Faith and Grace and Salvation and righteousness and justification and sanctification is given us, what are the next 5 steps in your most learned opinion?
Does it feel, I don't know, so many words come to mind, I'll go with awkward knowing you are responding to someone who never sees them? Does it feel like having a battle with an un armed woman? I would think so. But that is just me. Really looking forward to the wisdom and knowledge you are going to impart. It has been so long.
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If you are BORN AGAIN then you are Justified (made right in the eyes of the Lord) set free from condemnation or made righteousness .It is not a process it is obtained thru faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Lets be clear if you are not justified you will never enter the Kingdom of God. After all what are you going to do in your life that will justify you before God do you have something that is more powerful than the Blood of Christ or are you foolish enough to enter the Holy of Holies remove His sacrifice and replace it with your own justification ?
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I know you would like to believe this but not true
Many people have the gospel
In their grasp have the truth go to church and have everything BUT make that decision
If they walk away they fell away
How do I know? Because they reject eternal security in Christ and believe salvation must be maintained by something they do
The law requires perfection
You can not buy this truth so you lie and say we believe it is ok to break the law when we say over and over it is not ok
If you can not understand the requirement if the law how can we believe you understand what following the law looks like? You can’t
Many people have the gospel
In their grasp have the truth go to church and have everything BUT make that decision
If they walk away they fell away
How do I know? Because they reject eternal security in Christ and believe salvation must be maintained by something they do
The law requires perfection
You can not buy this truth so you lie and say we believe it is ok to break the law when we say over and over it is not ok
If you can not understand the requirement if the law how can we believe you understand what following the law looks like? You can’t
E
So you now believe in osas. Forgive me I did not know you repented
Again. You repented and believe in osas. Praise god!
Let’s talk about how one is saved first
If you wish to talk about what one does after they are sealed with the spirit and adopted into gods family in living their new identity. We can do that after we get how one is eternally saved first
Ok?
Again. You repented and believe in osas. Praise god!
Let’s talk about how one is saved first
If you wish to talk about what one does after they are sealed with the spirit and adopted into gods family in living their new identity. We can do that after we get how one is eternally saved first
Ok?
i was asking a question. an accusation isn't a question; it's a declarative statement.
Paul wrote in scripture, many times, that by virtue of being a believer/Christian/saint/what-have-you, he is not under the law.
"the law" is obviously, Moses' law/Torah/Sinai covenant law
is that what you call "lawless" / antinomian? is there only one "law" ?
if you'd rather divorce the question from "the famous Paul" then if i said, "i am not under the law" -- would you call me lawless?
i asked a question, and i put a scripture that i hope should inform your answer.
Paul wrote in scripture, many times, that by virtue of being a believer/Christian/saint/what-have-you, he is not under the law.
"the law" is obviously, Moses' law/Torah/Sinai covenant law
is that what you call "lawless" / antinomian? is there only one "law" ?
if you'd rather divorce the question from "the famous Paul" then if i said, "i am not under the law" -- would you call me lawless?
i asked a question, and i put a scripture that i hope should inform your answer.
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I thought I would give it a try but you seem to have a blind eye to what ever I write and just put your own thoughts in and it makes me very sad and hurt and I feel like you don't see me at all. I wonder if that is because I am a "She", it certainly feels like it now. If I had put down a mans name would you have treated me with some respect?
If you would go back and read what I quoted and wrote and how you replied to it, maybe it would open your eyes.
Until then, please respect me enough to not taking what I write and changing it to your own thoughts, and if that is not possible to responding to my posts at all, because whether you realize it or not, you don't get it.
I pray to God that you will hear this on a Spiritual level, and may you follow this request the way your father would want you to handle it. Thank you for your time.
If you would go back and read what I quoted and wrote and how you replied to it, maybe it would open your eyes.
Until then, please respect me enough to not taking what I write and changing it to your own thoughts, and if that is not possible to responding to my posts at all, because whether you realize it or not, you don't get it.
I pray to God that you will hear this on a Spiritual level, and may you follow this request the way your father would want you to handle it. Thank you for your time.
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Nice post!
So we continue to pray my friend.
Sadly Israel as a nation could have had it then.
And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.... For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:6,11-14)
All those years fighting the Holy Spirit. Are we any better? Pray indeed!
So we continue to pray my friend.
Sadly Israel as a nation could have had it then.
And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.... For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:6,11-14)
All those years fighting the Holy Spirit. Are we any better? Pray indeed!
Let's take a look at context to which that is stated.
But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he? All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
(1Co 10:20-23)
Why are the all things not expedient? The Spirit saith, "I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils."
Why don't the all things edify? "The things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils."
Yes there is only one God, but how many devils are there seeking worship?
Nothing can condemn you? What if you are living in willful sin?
But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he? All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
(1Co 10:20-23)
Why are the all things not expedient? The Spirit saith, "I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils."
Why don't the all things edify? "The things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils."
Yes there is only one God, but how many devils are there seeking worship?
Nothing can condemn you? What if you are living in willful sin?
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Never came to saving faith? Let's take a look at the context of the passages in question.
For if WE sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite (insult) unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
(Heb 10:26-31 KJV)
It says, "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
So we see that he (the willful sinner) was sanctified; purged. And they have done despite unto the Spirit of Grace . And also it would fail us if we we did not note that the writer in verse 26 includes himself in the start of this admonition by his use through the Holy Spirit of the pronoun "we".
And lastly
(Heb 10:38 NET) But my righteous one will live by faith, and if he shrinks back, I take no pleasure in him.
Shrinks back (draws back) is in the third person singular. Which dictates that the "he" mentioned in relation to the shrinking back is the "the righteous one" (just) mentioned in the previous clause. Incidentally how does one shrink back from being something unless they are the something to begin with.
No.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; For GOD has said, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them. For it is God that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure.
(Rom 10:6-8; Eph 2:8-10; Heb 10:16)
For if WE sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite (insult) unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
(Heb 10:26-31 KJV)
It says, "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
So we see that he (the willful sinner) was sanctified; purged. And they have done despite unto the Spirit of Grace . And also it would fail us if we we did not note that the writer in verse 26 includes himself in the start of this admonition by his use through the Holy Spirit of the pronoun "we".
And lastly
(Heb 10:38 NET) But my righteous one will live by faith, and if he shrinks back, I take no pleasure in him.
Shrinks back (draws back) is in the third person singular. Which dictates that the "he" mentioned in relation to the shrinking back is the "the righteous one" (just) mentioned in the previous clause. Incidentally how does one shrink back from being something unless they are the something to begin with.
No.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; For GOD has said, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them. For it is God that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. (Rom 10:6-8; Eph 2:8-10; Heb 10:16)
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So you do not believe in osas as I thought, which means everything i said was true.
You can not have it both ways
You can not say you believe you are justified, you believe there is nothing that can break you away from God. And then say you do not believe that the moment you were justified and saved, you are saved forever.
I can just respond by what I see, What I see you and so many people I have met, what I USED TO BELIEVE, in hopes that you can see it too.
I will continue to try, and also pray. That people open their eyes, and stop looking to SELF for the power to keep SELF in Christ, but looking to CHRIST to keep US in himself
You did not attach yourself to the vine, You can not break yourself from the vine
You did not take ahold of Christ hands, You can not pull yourself from Christs grasp.
You did not give yourself eternal life, You can not take away from yourself eternal life.
Once again, I pray you see this.. And find the true grace of Christ.
You can not have it both ways
You can not say you believe you are justified, you believe there is nothing that can break you away from God. And then say you do not believe that the moment you were justified and saved, you are saved forever.
I can just respond by what I see, What I see you and so many people I have met, what I USED TO BELIEVE, in hopes that you can see it too.
I will continue to try, and also pray. That people open their eyes, and stop looking to SELF for the power to keep SELF in Christ, but looking to CHRIST to keep US in himself
You did not attach yourself to the vine, You can not break yourself from the vine
You did not take ahold of Christ hands, You can not pull yourself from Christs grasp.
You did not give yourself eternal life, You can not take away from yourself eternal life.
Once again, I pray you see this.. And find the true grace of Christ.
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You continue to ignore scripture
The apostle john states, whoever sins has NEVER Seen GOD OR KNOWN HIM
Whoever has been born of GOD CAN NOT sin.
We do not live like the worlf. WE CAN’T> Because God will not allow us, he will put roadblocks in our way, He will chasten us, He has already changed us Sin is poison to us, it is not our nature. I can go on and on and on as to why. I am sorry you do not understand that!
Stop focusing on how righteous you THINK you are. And start focusing on the cross. For it is your ownly hope/
The apostle john states, whoever sins has NEVER Seen GOD OR KNOWN HIM
Whoever has been born of GOD CAN NOT sin.
We do not live like the worlf. WE CAN’T> Because God will not allow us, he will put roadblocks in our way, He will chasten us, He has already changed us Sin is poison to us, it is not our nature. I can go on and on and on as to why. I am sorry you do not understand that!
Stop focusing on how righteous you THINK you are. And start focusing on the cross. For it is your ownly hope/
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.
The conflict between Jew/Law/Gentile was resolved by Jesus who made us One in Him. Paul spells it out in Ephesians 2:11-22
(12) Remember that in the past you were without Christ. You were not citizens of Israel, and you did not know about the agreements with the promises that God made to his people. You had no hope, and you did not know God.
(13) Yes, at one time you were far away from God, but now in Christ Jesus, you are brought near to him. You are brought near to God through the blood sacrifice of Christ.
(14) Christ is the reason we are now at peace. He made us Jews and you who are not Jews one people. We were separated by a wall of hate that stood between us, but Christ broke down that wall. By giving his own body,
(15) Christ ended the law with its many commands and rules. His purpose was to make the two groups become one in him. By doing this he would make peace.
(16) Through the cross Christ ended the hate between the two groups. And after they became one body, he wanted to bring them both back to God. He did this with his death on the cross.
(17) Christ came and brought the message of peace to you non-Jews who were far away from God. And he brought that message of peace to those who were near to God.
(18) Yes, through Christ we all have the right to come to the Father in one Spirit.
(19) So now you non-Jewish people are not visitors or strangers, but you are citizens together with God's holy people. You belong to God's family.
(20) You believers are like a building that God owns. That building was built on the foundation that the apostles and prophets prepared. Christ Jesus himself is the most important stone in that building.
(21) The whole building is joined together in Christ, and he makes it grow and become a holy temple in the Lord.
(22) And in Christ you are being built together with his other people. You are being made into a place where God lives through the Spirit.
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We Are All One in Christ Jesus
The conflict between Jew/Law/Gentile was resolved by Jesus who made us One in Him. Paul spells it out in Ephesians 2:11-22
(11) You were not born as Jews. You are the people the Jews call "uncircumcised." Those Jews who call you "uncircumcised" call themselves "circumcised." (Their circumcision is only something they themselves do to their bodies.)(12) Remember that in the past you were without Christ. You were not citizens of Israel, and you did not know about the agreements with the promises that God made to his people. You had no hope, and you did not know God.
(13) Yes, at one time you were far away from God, but now in Christ Jesus, you are brought near to him. You are brought near to God through the blood sacrifice of Christ.
(14) Christ is the reason we are now at peace. He made us Jews and you who are not Jews one people. We were separated by a wall of hate that stood between us, but Christ broke down that wall. By giving his own body,
(15) Christ ended the law with its many commands and rules. His purpose was to make the two groups become one in him. By doing this he would make peace.
(16) Through the cross Christ ended the hate between the two groups. And after they became one body, he wanted to bring them both back to God. He did this with his death on the cross.
(17) Christ came and brought the message of peace to you non-Jews who were far away from God. And he brought that message of peace to those who were near to God.
(18) Yes, through Christ we all have the right to come to the Father in one Spirit.
(19) So now you non-Jewish people are not visitors or strangers, but you are citizens together with God's holy people. You belong to God's family.
(20) You believers are like a building that God owns. That building was built on the foundation that the apostles and prophets prepared. Christ Jesus himself is the most important stone in that building.
(21) The whole building is joined together in Christ, and he makes it grow and become a holy temple in the Lord.
(22) And in Christ you are being built together with his other people. You are being made into a place where God lives through the Spirit.
.