Refuting The Cessationism Doctrine: Spiritual Gifts, Tongues, Miracles Haven’t Ceased Since Pentecost!!

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
G

garee

Banned
#601
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#601
Dino246 said:
No; contrabiblical statements like, "Signs are for those who believe not prophecy." That's your statement, in case you forgot.
Click to expand...
Yes my statement... his law . Will you look to the foundation of the law spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14? Why are men making noises and falling backward? The bible says they are mocking him? Why do they continue?
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#602
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#602
presidente said:
Your position is irrational, and I will tell you why. First of all, Paul does not say he is talking about the knowledge of the completed New Testament. He contrasts knowing in part with knowing as he is known. There is no talk of the completed writings of the New Testament.

What is irrational about your position is that you are so convinced about it, even though the details about your position are not in the passage, and your own position runs contrary to having some sort of spiritual revelation to fill in the gaps. If you said the Lord spoke to you in a burning bush and told you that the knowledge being spoken of here is the completed New Testament scriptures... it is not that we would believe you... but at least you would be claiming some sort of revelation that your interpretation were true. You have to guess that your position is right since it cannot be proven from the text that 'know as I am known' means having the completed New Testament scriptures.

But the problem with your interpretation is that it does not fit with the overall message or theme of the epistle. Paul already wrote in chapter 1 of his readers being inriched in all utterance and all knowledge, "So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: " (I Corinthians 5,7, quote from v. 7.) Paul already gives us a time point to look forward to, here.

And we see the themes in chapter 13 and the two chapters that follow.

Chapter 13 Chapter 14 Chapter 15
tongues and prophecy tongues and prophecy
the coming of that which is perfect the state of the believer in the resurrection
at the coming of Christ.
Click to expand...
You are simply denying the scriptures as they are written. I cannot help your unbelief.
Paul wrote about himself 'when I was a child, I spake as a child.' The coming of the perfect will make Paul the apostle like a man. This was something he had not yet experienced. But he did have the knowledge of scripture. In Ephesians 3:4 he writes“Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)”.

You do not have such far superior understanding of Paul's writings that his understanding was that of a child's in comparison to yours. You are not in a superior position to that of the apostles.

Paul associates perfection with his own resurrection in the book of Philippians.
Click to expand...
Now this is simply nothingness. Perfection in this passage is nothing more than completeness. When we are glorified together with Christ gifts will not be an issue or a necessity.
That is a really ignorant statement, and quite false in my experience--unless you are speaking of faith in the resurrection of Christ, which is a great miracle.
Click to expand...
You are entitled to your opinion but I cannot make you believe scriptural truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#603
May 29, 2013
9,163
1,791
113
#603
Roger,
Your eisegesis and opinions on this matter are not the same as Biblical truth. You read ideas into the passage that clearly are not there. A great number of cessationist theologians and Bible teachers disagree with your interpretation because it is a poor approach to scripture.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#604
Jun 30, 2015
25,468
13,781
113
#604
garee said:
Yes my statement... his law .
Click to expand...
Your statement is NOT God's law. Rather, it is both inconsistent with it and contrary to it, as I have demonstrated repeatedly.

Only one verse is needed to refute your position completely. I have provided several in other posts.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#605
Jun 30, 2015
25,468
13,781
113
#605
notuptome said:
You are simply denying the scriptures as they are written.
Click to expand...
You add to Scripture to support your unbelief, and the sum total of your response to that accusation is an "Old" icon. You are without excuse.
 
G

garee

Banned
#606
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#606
Dino246 said:
Your statement is NOT God's law. Rather, it is both inconsistent with it and contrary to it, as I have demonstrated repeatedly.

Only one verse is needed to refute your position completely. I have provided several in other posts.
Click to expand...
That should be easy.

Contrary to His law .What is that law spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14: 22 ?.You have not even tried to show a verse that would set the approval on those who make a noise and fall backward.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#607
Jun 30, 2015
25,468
13,781
113
#607
garee said:
What is that law spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14: 22 ?.You have not even tried to show a verse that would set the approval on those who make a noise and fall backward.
Click to expand...
Nor will I. I'm done discussing that subject with you.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#609
Jun 30, 2015
25,468
13,781
113
#609
presidente said:
I don't have garee on my ignore list, but I often skip over his posts.
Click to expand...
He still badgers me about this subject, many months after I told him I was done. Meanwhile, he avoids answering a lot of other questions.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#610
May 23, 2012
13,058
4,341
113
#610
notuptome said:
You are simply denying the scriptures as they are written. I cannot help your unbelief.

Now this is simply nothingness. Perfection in this passage is nothing more than completeness. When we are glorified together with Christ gifts will not be an issue or a necessity.

You are entitled to your opinion but I cannot make you believe scriptural truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
wrong
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#614
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#614
EternalFire said:
It is an essential feature of the gospel, to the Jew first and then the Gentile.

Romans 15:17-19
So in Messiah Yeshua, I have reason to boast before God. For I will not dare to speak of anything except what Messiah accomplished through me, to bring about the obedience of the Gentiles by word and deed, in the power of signs and wonders, in the power of the Spirit of God. So from Jerusalem and around even to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the Good News of Messiah.
Click to expand...
Naturally if you think the gospel of the kingdom is still valid today, you will believe in signs and wonders.

But as I have earlier stated, if you cannot show them, it really doesn’t matter anyway that you believe they still hold true today
 
EternalFire

EternalFire

Well-known member
#615
Jan 3, 2019
659
352
63
#615
Guojing said:
Naturally if you think the gospel of the kingdom is still valid today, you will believe in signs and wonders.

But as I have earlier stated, if you cannot show them, it really doesn’t matter anyway that you believe they still hold true today
Click to expand...
God still heals and confirms His gospel with signs and wonders, unfettered by the disbelief of those who have not seen them take place. The on-demand "see-to-believe" mindset is nothing new: "Let the Christ, the King of Israel, come down now from the cross that we may see and believe" (Mark 15:32).
 
B

biker

Banned
#616
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
#616
Within the same verse of Scripture being used to claim the Gift of Tongues has ceased, it also lists that knowledge will stop. With access to the internet, I might not be learning more, but I am finding information I had never had access to and at times was unaware of. I would therefore make the claim, if we are still able to learn and gang knowledge, then the Gift of Tongues is still very well in effect.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#617
Jun 30, 2015
25,468
13,781
113
#617
biker said:
Within the same verse of Scripture being used to claim the Gift of Tongues has ceased, it also lists that knowledge will stop. With access to the internet, I might not be learning more, but I am finding information I had never had access to and at times was unaware of. I would therefore make the claim, if we are still able to learn and gang knowledge, then the Gift of Tongues is still very well in effect.
Click to expand...
Though it does make for a humorous retort on occasion, it's not "knowledge" generally that is in focus here, but rather the spiritual gift of a "word of knowledge". Cessationists usually try to massage this to mean only knowledge that is already contained in Scripture, but the context of chapters 12 and 13 simply does not restrict it to such. They are stuck pretending that all knowledge outside of Scripture is completely irrelevant (while using computers to 'voice' their disagreement).

biker said:
... gang knowledge
Click to expand...
Funny typo, given your user name. ;)
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#618
Jun 30, 2015
25,468
13,781
113
#618
Guojing said:
Naturally if you think the gospel of the kingdom is still valid today, you will believe in signs and wonders.

But as I have earlier stated, if you cannot show them, it really doesn’t matter anyway that you believe they still hold true today
Click to expand...
And if you can't see them, what does it matter that you don't? What difference does it make to you that some believe miracles still happen? Is your faith impinged by their belief? No? Then why are you arguing about it?
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#619
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#619
Dino246 said:
And if you can't see them, what does it matter that you don't? What difference does it make to you that some believe miracles still happen? Is your faith impinged by their belief? No? Then why are you arguing about it?
Click to expand...
Trying to understand how others form their conclusions that's all. ;)

Most discussions here should be more to understand how others think, rather than to change their minds.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#620
Jun 30, 2015
25,468
13,781
113
#620
Guojing said:
Trying to understand how others form their conclusions that's all. ;)

Most discussions here should be more to understand how others think, rather than to change their minds.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I certainly have learned a lot about how others think... and seen very little of mind-changing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.