I DON'T BELIEVE THE MILLENIUM WILL BE ON EARTH, BUT RATHER, UP IN HEAVEN

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Corban

Corban

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MyrtleTrees said:
You're right, that all some Bible prophecies have come true. But the Jews didn't always understand ahead of time, exactly what they referred to or when. At least not as regards to the prophecies about Jesus' birth, and about how Jesus would die on the cross for the world. I won't be surprised if not all Christians will correctly understand end time Bible prophecies, either, before they happen. But at least they'll all share a happy eternity with God, if they've served Him sincerely in this life.

I see you are aware of the city, Jerusalem, as also being symbolic of the heavenly kind, in some verses of the Bible. As you say, there aren't many that speak of Jerusalem in the spiritual sense of the word, throughout Genesis to the end of II Corinthians. But I thought of one that refers to it, I believe, though the verse doesn't call it "Jerusalem.'

Ps 23:6
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
KJV
God bless you too!
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Agreed. The center of Israel was Jerusalem. And the center of Jerusalem was the Temple. And the Temple is the House of God. David wrote this Psalm with a deep thing in mind - resurrection. While David was alive there was no Temple. His son Solomon built it after David's death. So David speaks of "goodness and mercy all the days of his LIFE". But when David is resurrected he will be directly under Jesus as king of Israel (Jer.30:9). No doubt he will live in a subsection of Ezekiel's Temple - the main Occupant being Jesus-Emmanuel. So the second part of your verse shows David looking forward to resurrection and dwelling close to the Lord in Jerusalem FOR EVER.

But this is not all. In the New Testament God has raised up a House for Himself "NOT made with hands" - the Church (1st Tim.3:15). The great enemy of the Church is death, for the Church is made up with our BODIES (1st Cor.6:15). When we die and go to Hades, the Church suffers a loss. So the very first thing our Lord Jesus says about the Church, in Matthew 16:18, is that the "gates of HADES" will not prevail. That is, the Church is to made of men in resurrection. Since men in resurrection cannot die again (Lk.20:36; Heb.9:27; Act.7:48, 17:24), we Christians shall also "dwell in the House of the Lord FOR EVER" - in resurrection.

Take care and God bless.
 
T

Truth7t7

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#122
Dino246 said:
Actually, "quick" refers simply to "living". Jesus will judge those still living at that time, and those already dead. It has nothing to do with their soteriological status. It's simply an archaic meaning of the word.
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Quick refers to the "Spirit Filled Righteous Saved" as the OP clearly states.

Will you deny the truth of scripture below :eek:

John 5:21KJV
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

John 6:63KJV
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Acts 10:42KJV
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

Ephesians 2:1KJV
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Collisions 2:1KJV
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Truth7t7 said:
There will be no future Millennium on this earth.
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You continue to post your false eschatology as though it is Gospel truth. You should be learning rather than trying to sow seeds of confusion. And this is not the first time that you have been asked to cease and desist.

Just keep in mind that what you are doing here is OPPOSING GOD AND CHRIST, who categorically say that there will not only be a Millennium on earth, but that the Kingdom of God shall be established on earth for eternity.

The very passage which reveals the truth of the Millennium also reveals that it will be on earth, not in Heaven. So the OP is a product of sheer speculation, if not ignorance.

REVELATION 20: THE BATTLE OF GOG AND MAGOG IS ON EARTH
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
 
T

Truth7t7

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#124
Nehemiah6 said:
You continue to post your false eschatology as though it is Gospel truth. You should be learning rather than trying to sow seeds of confusion. And this is not the first time that you have been asked to cease and desist.

Just keep in mind that what you are doing here is OPPOSING GOD AND CHRIST, who categorically say that there will not only be a Millennium on earth, but that the Kingdom of God shall be established on earth for eternity.

The very passage which reveals the truth of the Millennium also reveals that it will be on earth, not in Heaven. So the OP is a product of sheer speculation, if not ignorance.

REVELATION 20: THE BATTLE OF GOG AND MAGOG IS ON EARTH
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
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The battle in Revelation 20:7-9 is nothing more than the final battle of Armageddon, seen in Rev 16:12-17 below (Same Event) in parallel teachings.

Rev 16:1-11 represents the seals of plagues (During The Tribulation)

The 6th vial seen in Rev 16:12 below (Currently) has Satan bound, it will be poured out at "The End Of The Tribulation" as Satan is released to gather the Nations to the final battle.

Rev 20:7-9 & Rev 16:12-17 is the (Same Event & Same Battle)

Revelation 20:7-9KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Revelation 16:1-17KJV
16 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
 
P

peldom10

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May 22, 2020
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MyrtleTrees said:
I DON'T BELIEVE THE MILLENIUM WILL BE ON EARTH, BUT RATHER, UP IN HEAVEN
.................... 5:11, KJV).
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Are you referring to ..."the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth" ? You may be correct but scriptures suggest not;

Note;....The Lord's prayer.........."Thy kingdom come Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven"...
..."no one has ever seen God and if he did he must surely die"...
..'we must make a trip annually to worship Christ in Jerusalem or there will be no rain'....also suggesting the need of water for existence. Yet, scriptures teach ....nothing is needed in Heaven.


What does than mean to you?

...
 
T

Truth7t7

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#126
peldom10 said:
Are you referring to ..."the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth" ? You may be correct but scriptures suggest not;

Note;....The Lord's prayer.........."Thy kingdom come Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven"...
..."no one has ever seen God and if he did he must surely die"...
..'we must make a trip annually to worship Christ in Jerusalem or there will be no rain'....also suggesting the need of water for existence. Yet, scriptures teach ....nothing is needed in Heaven.


What does than mean to you?

...
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There will be no future 1,000 kingdom on this earth, with (Mortal Humans) present, found no place in scripture, nowhere!

Revelation 20:1-6 below is 100% in the Lord's spiritual, no kingdom on earth or mortal humans are seen (None)

100% Spiritual Seen Below, No Kingdom On Earth Or Humans Seen.

Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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Truth7t7 said:
Quick refers to the "Spirit Filled Righteous Saved" as the OP clearly states.
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Stop yelling, and tone down your rhetoric; there's no need for it. "Quick" does not refer to the "Spirit filled (sic) Righteous Saved", regardless of what the OP states. Repeating your error doesn't make it truth.

Truth7t7 said:
Will you deny the truth of scripture below:eek:
John 5:21KJV
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

John 6:63KJV
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Acts 10:42KJV
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

Ephesians 2:1KJV
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Collisions 2:1KJV
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
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In every verse you quote except one, "dead" is contrasted with "quick"; quick means alive. It carries a secondary meaning, but the literal meaning is "alive". The verses are much more clear in newer translations such as the NASB (below), where you aren't having to interpret archaic 16th-century English to understand what the Scripture is saying.

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

Acts 10:42 And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead.

Ephesians 2:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, (the "hath he quickened" is an addition to the KJV not in the Greek).

Colossians (not 'Collisions'!) 2:13 (not 1) When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

Perhaps its time to get a new Bible. ;)
 
A

Adstar

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#128
acts5_29 said:
Again, Satan is unleashed, and there is war. Earth or no earth. You seem overly focused on people returning to earth after they die, but if you are going to simply read the book for what it says, then the rest of the Bible repeatedly says that believers' tribulation is over for good once this life is over.
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Yes it is over once they are reasurected.. They have perfected eternal bodies and will never feel pain or suffer again.. In what way does my belief say that the reasurected or Raputred Saints will have future tribulation on earth?

You seem to assume that coming back to earth would entail tribulation.. Why ?
 
MyrtleTrees

MyrtleTrees

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peldom10 said:
Are you referring to ..."the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth" ? You may be correct but scriptures suggest not;

Note;....The Lord's prayer.........."Thy kingdom come Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven"...
..."no one has ever seen God and if he did he must surely die"...
..'we must make a trip annually to worship Christ in Jerusalem or there will be no rain'....also suggesting the need of water for existence. Yet, scriptures teach ....nothing is needed in Heaven.


What does than mean to you?

...
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To me, the word, "earth' has more than one meaning. Look at what this online etymology dictionary has to say about it:
earth (n.)
Old English eorþe "ground, soil, dirt, dry land; country, district," also used (along with middangeard) for "the (material) world, the abode of man" (as opposed to the heavens or the underworld), from Proto-Germanic *ertho (source also of Old Frisian erthe "earth," Old Saxon ertha, Old Norse jörð, Middle Dutch eerde, Dutch aarde, Old High German erda, German Erde, Gothic airþa), perhaps from an extended form of PIE root *er- (2) "earth, ground."

The earth considered as a planet was so called from c. 1400. Use in old chemistry is from 1728. Earth-mover "large digging machine" is from 1940.
Our present earth we live on is shaped like a globe. The word, "earth" in the Bible, doesn't usually mean anything more than, this present earth. But there are a few verses that I see as referring to our future abode in heaven WITH GOD - as being 'earth' or similar descriptions.
In the Lord's prayer, it says, "Thy kingdom come." That is just an acknowledgement of the fact that we who faithfully serve God in this life, will spend eternity with God after this life. This is always something to look forward to with joy.

The Bible says that no humans are to be allowed to see God while on this present earth. But a time is coming when all who faithfully serve God WILL SEE HIM. That will be up in heaven.

1 John 3:2

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
KJV
And the verse below, might mean that both believers and unbelievers will see God's face on Judgment day. The unbelievers - of course, will be thrown into hell.

Rev 6:16-17

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
KJV
True, nothing is needed in heaven, as it is perfect and complete.
peldom10 said:
Are you referring to ..."the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth" ? You may be correct but scriptures suggest not;

Note;....The Lord's prayer.........."Thy kingdom come Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven"...
..."no one has ever seen God and if he did he must surely die"...
..'we must make a trip annually to worship Christ in Jerusalem or there will be no rain'....also suggesting the need of water for existence. Yet, scriptures teach ....nothing is needed in Heaven.


What does than mean to you?

...
Click to expand...
 
MyrtleTrees

MyrtleTrees

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Corban said:
Agreed. The center of Israel was Jerusalem. And the center of Jerusalem was the Temple. And the Temple is the House of God. David wrote this Psalm with a deep thing in mind - resurrection. While David was alive there was no Temple. His son Solomon built it after David's death. So David speaks of "goodness and mercy all the days of his LIFE". But when David is resurrected he will be directly under Jesus as king of Israel (Jer.30:9). No doubt he will live in a subsection of Ezekiel's Temple - the main Occupant being Jesus-Emmanuel. So the second part of your verse shows David looking forward to resurrection and dwelling close to the Lord in Jerusalem FOR EVER.

But this is not all. In the New Testament God has raised up a House for Himself "NOT made with hands" - the Church (1st Tim.3:15). The great enemy of the Church is death, for the Church is made up with our BODIES (1st Cor.6:15). When we die and go to Hades, the Church suffers a loss. So the very first thing our Lord Jesus says about the Church, in Matthew 16:18, is that the "gates of HADES" will not prevail. That is, the Church is to made of men in resurrection. Since men in resurrection cannot die again (Lk.20:36; Heb.9:27; Act.7:48, 17:24), we Christians shall also "dwell in the House of the Lord FOR EVER" - in resurrection.

Take care and God bless.
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I see the "Jerusalem" that David was referring to in that passage - as being the "New Jerusalem" - which means our home up in heaven with God. And I see the earthly Jerusalem as having no good reason or purpose for being rebuilt. And David will not need the sun for light in that future dwelling, as God Himself provides the light up in heaven.
Rev 21:23-24

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
KJV

True - our future abode in heaven will not have been made with human hands, but by God alone.
 
tourist

tourist

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#131
Ahwatukee said:
This has nothing to do with the false teaching of Jesuit Futurism. The word of God does not require what you are doing above with numerology. Just believe the number of being a literal 144,000, just as it says and stop trying to turn this number into something that it is not.


============================================================​
​
Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.


From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

=============================================================

There will be 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes which equals 144,000. That's what the scripture says and that's what it means. There is no need to symbolize or to use numerology to find some other meaning.
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These guys are virgins too and will be singing a new song.
 
MyrtleTrees

MyrtleTrees

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#132
Here are some verses I found on the subject of how the saints will see God and be directly with Him in the hereafter:
Revelation 21:9 ESV / 2 helpful votes
Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.”

1 John 3:2 ESV / 2 helpful votes
Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

Hebrews 11:16 ESV / 2 helpful votes
But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.


Philippians 1:23 ESV / 2 helpful votes
I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.

Luke 22:29-30

29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
KJV

Matthew 5:8 ESV / 2 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
 
MyrtleTrees

MyrtleTrees

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#133
MattforJesus said:
There will be a millennial reign of Christ on earth, and then this heaven and earth shall pass away, and there will be a new heaven and earth, the New Jerusalem.

The disciples asked Jesus if He was going to restore the kingdom to Israel at that time, and He said the Father will do it in the future, but be concerned with preaching the Gospel.

God said that He will set His glory among the heathen, and the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went in to captivity for their sins and iniquities against God, but after the Jews borne their shame then God will bring all of the Jews out of the Gentile nations, and bring them to Israel, and turn them to the truth that Jesus is their Lord and Savior, and they will know the LORD their God from that time forward, and He will never hide His face from them again, which they will be in the truth from that time forward, and never stray again.

Which this has to be the future for Israel is not in the truth.

God said that He will make a full and of all Gentile nations, their ruling governments, but He will not make a full end of Israel, but punish them in part

Since God is going to restore the kingdom to Israel then they will have to be operating for a time on earth which is during the millennial reign.

The Bible says that the LORD shall be King over all the earth, and in that day there shall be one LORD, and His name one, which the heathen shall not acknowledge any religious leader, or god, but Jesus.

Which at that time people will not fight with people, animals will not fight with animals, and be plant eaters, and animals and people will not fear each other, and at that time a little child can lead the most ferocious animal on the planet today and that animal will have no desire to hurt the child.

And the knowledge of the LORD shall fill the whole earth as the waters cover the seas.

And the heathen that God spared when He defeated the world have to go up year after year to Jerusalem to worship Jesus as He rules on the throne of David out of Jerusalem.

Jesus said that one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

Which Jesus is a sinless man, and had to fulfill all the roles of Israel.

But Jesus has not fulfilled the role of perfect King on earth yet, and it must be done on earth.

So Jesus will fulfill that role in the millennial reign, and when the millennial reign is over then heaven and earth shall pass away.

The saints will then go to the place that Jesus created the New Jerusalem, where sin has never been, and sin will never be, and the saints and angels will remember nothing prior to that, and will feel as if they have always been there and nowhere else.

Israel is blinded in part until salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles, and so all Israel shall be saved.

The New Age Christ will establish peace in the Middle East between the Jews and Palestinians, and it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel for the Gentile nations will cause it to happen, and the New Age Christ wants them all back on their land, but God means it for good towards the Jews.

When the world takes the mark of the beast, which will be a microchip under the skin linked to satellite, the biometric system that President Trump introduced that can cut down on crime, and locate people, then salvation is no longer available to them.

God will then send Israel 2 witnesses to Israel to turn them to the truth that Jesus is their Lord and Savior.
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Acts 1:6-7

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
KJV
To me, this looks like Jesus was referring to His heavenly kingdom in heaven and the home He has prepared for all those who faithfully serve Him in this life. His disciples and most other Jews of Jesus' time thought the Messiah would restore the kingdom of Israel, but had guessed incorrectly. Later, they came to understand that what He was referring to, was the heavenly kingdom. It will have been made perfect - in that all of God's saints here on earth, will be added to it's vast inhabitants.

I know that many Christians think there will be some microchip implanted into people at the time of Anti-christ's rule. Maybe so, but I doubt it. Still, saints are not to take such a mark, in case it does also involve such an implanted mark. There was a time when a mark was set on Jews to be destroyed, but I think it was figurative - symbolic, in that case.
Ezek 9:4

4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
KJV
Also, God's children are all invisibly marked - with the seal of His holy Spirit:
2 Tim 2:19

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
KJV

Rom 8:15-17

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
KJV
There are 2 spiritual kingdoms here earth - that of the devil's - who is said to be the "god of this world" - and the kingdom of heaven. Only those who faithfully serve God in this life are regarded as being a part of God's kingdom here on the earth.

It does look in scripture - that there will be a major turning to God, by Israel, at some time. But not all mentions of Israel, refer to genetic Jews, but rather to those who serve God faithfully. That's what scripture meant by saying God said He would greatly increase the seed of Abraham.

True, in the end, there will be no more earthly rulers. God will be king and ruler over all of those who serve Him in this life - and who will live with Him eternally in heaven.

1 Tim 6:14-15

14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
KJV
 
MyrtleTrees

MyrtleTrees

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Sep 5, 2014
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#134
Ahwatukee said:
And it is the context that will bear out the meaning whether literal or symbolic. The problem is that people jump out of the context and apply the meaning of another scripture when there is no reason to do that. An angel says to the four angels who are given power to harm the land and the sea and the trees until we have sealed the foreheads of the servants of our God.” You are not discerning between what is literal and what is symbolic and by doing so, you distort God's word.

And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel:

These 144,000 are true Israelites by birth, i.e. by their ancestry, who come out of the nation Israel as believers in Christ. The first fruits out of ancestral Israel and not Gentile believers. The church is made up of both Jew and Gentile. However, there is also the nation Israel who did not acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah and that who God is going to deal with during the tribulation period, ancestral Israel. The church, which again is made up of both Jew and Gentile, has a different program than unbelieving nation of Israel. The Jews and Gentiles who make up the church, dead and living, will be changed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. The unbelieving nation of Israel will remain on the earth during the tribulation period. The 144,I 0 who come of natural Israel, will be caught up to God and His throne in the middle of the seven years. The beast will be given authority to make war and conquer the great tribulation saints during the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.

There are different groups with different programs and you are not understanding this.
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I respect your views on these things, but I have already gone over these kind of things with othersbe here. I am very sincere in my views, and it is very important to me to prayerfully interpret all of the scriptures as accurately as I'm capable of doing. And I believe it is the same for you. So that's the important thing above all - is to be sincere in our faith in God - to correctly know the way of salvation according to the Bible, and to be living according to it in daily life. Those who do so will spend all eternity with God.

Even so, yes, we who serve God are to be prayerfully doing our best to correctly interpret all of God's Word. If anyone doesn't do this - they aren't sincere in serving God. Yet it is clear to me that not all sincere Christians are able to agree on all points of doctrine in the Bible. I don't think they ever have. But they'll all understand all things perfectly, when they get to heaven - that's for sure!
1 John 3:2

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
KJV

1 Cor 13:12

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
KJV
And here's a verse that shows that love for God is more important than doctrinal knowledge, which is good to know, since we are human and not as wise as God is:
1 Cor 8:1-3
8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

2 And if any man think that he knoweth anything, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
KJV
 
MyrtleTrees

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
#135
Sep 5, 2014
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#135
tourist said:
These guys are virgins too and will be singing a new song.
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Yes, virgins, in the spiritual sense of the word. That is to picture their devotedness towards God. Not spiritual "harlots" as regards to what their relationships should be to Christ, through having fully surrendered their lives to God.
 
Corban

Corban

Banned
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Jun 11, 2020
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#136
MyrtleTrees said:
I see the "Jerusalem" that David was referring to in that passage - as being the "New Jerusalem" - which means our home up in heaven with God. And I see the earthly Jerusalem as having no good reason or purpose for being rebuilt. And David will not need the sun for light in that future dwelling, as God Himself provides the light up in heaven.
Rev 21:23-24

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
KJV

True - our future abode in heaven will not have been made with human hands, but by God alone.
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The difficulty with this twofold:
  1. Zechariah 14:16 says that the nations who survived Armageddon will have to go up to Jerusalem every year to worship Christ. And Isaiah 2:2-3 says that the nations go up to Jerusalem, nay "flow" into Jerusalem. Do the nations also go to heaven? This must be a Jerusalem on earth.
  2. New Jerusalem will not be in heaven. Revelation says, "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." And Israel is part of it, and some of the nations may enter it via Israel the Gates. Are Israel and the nations going to also be in heaven?
I propose that the whole matter is on earth.
 
T

Truth7t7

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#137
Corban said:
The difficulty with this twofold:
  1. Zechariah 14:16 says that the nations who survived Armageddon will have to go up to Jerusalem every year to worship Christ. And Isaiah 2:2-3 says that the nations go up to Jerusalem, nay "flow" into Jerusalem. Do the nations also go to heaven? This must be a Jerusalem on earth.
  2. New Jerusalem will not be in heaven. Revelation says, "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." And Israel is part of it, and some of the nations may enter it via Israel the Gates. Are Israel and the nations going to also be in heaven?
I propose that the whole matter is on earth.
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You quote Revelation 21 in the New Jerusalem descending from heaven?

However you run from the fact that this is on the New Heaven and Earth, the former had passed away, as clearly seen in Revelation 21:1-5 below, "All Things Are Created New"

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement, as the (Eternal Kingdom) is revealed.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
 
Corban

Corban

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#138
Truth7t7 said:
You quote Revelation 21 in the New Jerusalem descending from heaven?

However you run from the fact that this is on the New Heaven and Earth, the former had passed away, as clearly seen in Revelation 21:1-5 below, "All Things Are Created New"

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
...
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The word "new" in the Greek does not mean a fully new creation. It means "made pristine". That is, the heavens and earth are purged by the fire so that nothing of the old remains. God's plan with man was always with the earth. It has been covered with water twice and will be immersed in fire after the 1,000 years. The word "and", which is used prolifically in Revelation Chapter 19 to 22, is a conjunction which is copulative, cumulative and sequential. That is, it joins different things, adds things on to others and shows a sequence. Thus, the sequence is, Armageddon (Rev.19), then the 1,000 year reign on the old earth (Rev.20), then the "Renewed" heavens and "Renewed" earth which go on into the "ages to come" (Eph.2.7; Rev.21 & 22).

Here are some facts to consider. The physical earth will never be replaced.

Psalm 78:69; "And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever."

Psalm 104:5; "Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever."

Psalm 119:90; "Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth."

1st Chronicles 16:30; "Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved."

Psalm 93:1; "The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved."

Psalm 96:10; "Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously."
 
tourist

tourist

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#139
MyrtleTrees said:
Yes, virgins, in the spiritual sense of the word. That is to picture their devotedness towards God. Not spiritual "harlots" as regards to what their relationships should be to Christ, through having fully surrendered their lives to God.
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Where does it indicate in Revelation that regarding being a virgin in a spiritual sense rather than in a physical sense? I really don't see how fully surrendering your life to God makes one a spiritual virgin if there is even such a thing. I don't even equate virginity with purity either. Pure in what aspect? Certainly not in their thoughts because all have sinned and in that regard are no longer pure despite whether or not they are a virgin.
 
T

Truth7t7

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#140
May 19, 2020
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#140
Corban said:
The word "new" in the Greek does not mean a fully new creation. It means "made pristine". That is, the heavens and earth are purged by the fire so that nothing of the old remains. God's plan with man was always with the earth. It has been covered with water twice and will be immersed in fire after the 1,000 years. The word "and", which is used prolifically in Revelation Chapter 19 to 22, is a conjunction which is copulative, cumulative and sequential. That is, it joins different things, adds things on to others and shows a sequence. Thus, the sequence is, Armageddon (Rev.19), then the 1,000 year reign on the old earth (Rev.20), then the "Renewed" heavens and "Renewed" earth which go on into the "ages to come" (Eph.2.7; Rev.21 & 22).

Here are some facts to consider. The physical earth will never be replaced.

Psalm 78:69; "And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever."

Psalm 104:5; "Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever."

Psalm 119:90; "Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth."

1st Chronicles 16:30; "Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved."

Psalm 93:1; "The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved."

Psalm 96:10; "Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously."
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We will disagree, the existing heaven and Earth will be dissolved by the Lord's fire, it will be replaced by the New Creation of the New Heaven, Earth, and Jerusalem.

The scripture presented showing the (Earth) lasting forever represents the (New Earth)

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Isaiah 24:19-20KJV
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

All men are burned, All that dwell in the world, no human survives the Lord's indignation and anger.

Psalms 75:3KJV
3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.
 
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