So much wrong here I do not even know where to begin.
1. you stated that god planned to redeem fallen man, well of course, as scripture says even when we were sinners, Christ died for us (you even mocked dusky when he said Christ died for sinners, (sinful world) and said Your conversation was done, it was done, it was done because you have an issue with Christ dieting for sinners,
2. you left out the part in John 6: where Jesus said it is the will of the father that whoever sees and believes has eternal life, you love to remind us how no one can come unless God draws. And we all agree, without Gods intervention and help, no one would be saved, but you leave out that it takes faith in him to fulfill The will of the father
3. you also like to leave part of John 3 out, Jesus makes it clear who those are that are saved, those who BELIEVE, they will never died but live forever, as he said , Jesus was not sent to the world (of sinners) to judge it, but to save it, and who would be saved? Whoever BELIeVES is not condemned, but whoever does NOT BELIEVE is condemned already. He was sent to the whole world and died for them (sinners) but only those who believe are saved, in John 3 4 and 6 what is the common theme. Believe, ask and it shall be given, eat the bread of life.
it looks like you new here, I would recommend you cut back the attitude, and stop with the silly belittling comments and all, if you want to discuss the word, let’s do it (this is a bible DISCUSSION forum, if you want to shove your belief down everyone’s throat and belittle and attack those who disagree with you, your not in the right place
of course, the final question is have you been here before under another Nick?
Wow, I am never ceased to be amazed, how when this most hated doctrine of Grace Salvation comes into the light how the Armenians always want to shove it into darkness. However, this battle of "Free Grace vs Free will" has been raging for centuries and will rage until the end of time. The Free Grace side has been waged by men like, John Calvin, Arthur W. Pink and John Gill of old and more recently by men like, R. C. Sproul, John MacArthur and W. E Best. So it is not just I who tries to keep this great truth alive, for the Glory of our Lord.
If I am trying to "shove my belief" then what are you doing by attacking it... "So much wrong here...." Why is it that those that back "free will" are free to do whatever they want but to defend "Free Grace" is always shoving something down someones throat?
As to your first point, it wasn't in the discussion you were replying to, this was in a much earlier reply to dusky, you did not give proper context. I asked the question,... Did God love the fallen, sinful world?... This question needed some deep thought to answer and see what I was getting at. The answer is NO. Why? God did NOT love the fall, even though He knew Adam was going to fall before He created him. God did not love SIN, since all sin is against God. Therefore, God could not love the world in it's present state, where all of creation was tainted and all of mankind would have to be condemned. Therefore, God put forth a plan to redeem sinners. A plan that would eventually destroy sin, once and for all.
As to your second point, I left out "whoever sees and believes....." because it is understood that the ones seeing and believing are one and the same. Let's take a look:
(John 6:37)
All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
All that the father gave to Christ are the Elect of God.
(John 6:39)
And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
Again the ones being raised up in the last days are the ones the Father gave to Christ.
(John 6:40)
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
All three verses are in the will of the Father and in the immediate context. Therefore, it is only reasonable to conclude, that the ones beholding the Son and believing are the ones that the Father gave to Christ, otherwise, verses 37, should of read something like this:
All that which the Father is giving me shall come to me; and him that is coming to me, ALONG WITH ANYONE ELSE WHO MIGHT BELIEVE, I will in no wise cast out. Forgive me Lord, for such foolishness as to play with your Word.
In addition to this point, I raise a question. If this view point is so wrong, then explain to me why in verses 37&39 our Lord is placing such an obvious restriction on whom is coming to Him?
As to the third point, I did explain this in the earlier post. I think my point was clear. However I do have another question. What did the Lord mean when he said, "...whoever does not believe is condemned already"?
Finally, I am new to this site but I have been studying and teaching the Word of God for over 30 years. I will always discuss the Word of God in a polite and thoughtful manner, as long as the other person shows true sincerity for the Word and approaches it with a good spirit and an open mind. But this is Scripture we are talking about, we are not discussing last nights political debate or the sports. If a person is spouting heresy, I will call it down! I fear God more than man.
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