Fear of marriage

I think you make a good point. If I understand you correctly, you're trying to say that marriage without legal recognition is just as valid as one validated by the state. You are correct.

The legal document produced by the state known as a marriage certificate does not usually involve placing vows because it is received from a courthouse. This legal document is simply for tax purposes and other legalities that can arise. It isn't a requirement.

A marriage without the documents and legal red tape is still a marriage, it just isn't legally binding by the state; God still recognizes marriage.

I think some states have what is known as "common law" where if you're living with an alleged spouse for X number of years then they are a defacto husband or wife for legal purposes.

So you're right.

In Texas, the justice of the peace speaks the traditional Christian Wedding vows to you just like a minister would and you both say I Do to the vows. Then he signs the certificate. (I eloped in 1985)

If you google 'what is a common law marriage' you will discover that it was first set up to recognize couples who met on the frontier and were living as husband and wife and had children and were settling the frontier where there were no ministers or justice of the peace for many miles around so that it was determined that such women in particular should not be ostracized or considered as living in sin by the married women of the towns that were developing and treated as immoral sinners, so they created the law that they should be considered married as common law. Nevertheless they still had to apply for this through letters to the court.

You have to apply for this from the court. You can't say me and my girlfriend are common law married because we have been living together for x amount of years and the common marriage laws do not state that. You might decide this is not working out and ask your girlfriend of 10 years to leave and she could sue you for half your record collection and say she is your common law wife but the courts do not recognize this without it having been applied for and agreed upon by both parties. One person cannot declare common law without both parties applying for and agreeing to this.

In Ancient Israel as far back as you can go marriage was a contract that WAS WRITTEN and recorded. It has always included witnesses, vows, covenant contract agreements. These records were recorded in the Temple and so up until 70 AD these records could be researched and this is why you have the genealogy of Jesus in Matthew and Luke recorded, as the authors were able to record documented evidence from temple records.

NEVER in ancient history of the Jews or in Christian history has a marriage been recognized by shacking up and the couple saying "we believe God sees us as married because we are planning to make it official later in the future but just have not yet gotten around to it." If you are doing that, and I am speaking to anyone who reads this post, or if you know anyone who is doing that (and there are many today even in our churches) they should repent of fornication, separate from each other and plan their wedding and not come together again until after they have made their marriage "official" or covenanted with vows, certificates, legal and documented etc.

This is what all good pastors will tell such couples though it should be said with love, patience and kindness it nevertheless should be said. We cannot compromise on these issues.

If we're talking about legal systems, which we are, then we aren't in the wild west or ancient Jerusalem, at least I'm not. I'm in the modern USA, most of us are, where there are numerous states with varying laws on this topic.

Generally speaking, except for Texas apparently, there is a separation of church and state these days, meaning that the state is not allowed to dictate to the public what the religious rite of marriage constitutes. In other words, if a man and woman say they're married then they're married. It's as simple as that and God knows the truth. If people slander that couple then that's their sin. It's best for people to just watch their mouth if they aren't sure.

If a pastor is telling people they must go to the courthouse to validate their marriage before God then I would recommend he repents because that's unsound advice and is unscriptural.

I was just explaining the background behind common law marriage. My point being people can apply for it but they are not automatically considered married by the courts without applying and being granted such legal status. If someone simply declares themselves common law married it does not make it so, it only makes them ignorant of the law. I researched this a few years back and at that time there were no such laws as an automatic legal status based on your residency without you both signing documents requesting such. This always pops up when the girlfriend threatens to sue for alimony because she was asked to leave after years of cohabitation claiming that she was taking care of the house all that time instead of focusing on her career. There are always cases where the man just simply gave her what she requested to avoid legal battles, but that does not mean that the court recognized her claim for common law marriage. It is one of those myths that just keep being perpetuated.

As to a covenant of Marriage it is a biblical concept and included witnesses and contracts and written records. That is an historical fact. No one can change history even if they wish they could. As to American history it has always been considered "holy matrimony" and "sanctity of marraige" and included license, and legal documents as well as a Minister involved and this I believe is in accordance with ancient marriage rites thought they have changed from Hebrew culture that Jesus speaks about such as the 10 virgins and other parables. The western Christian tradition should not be considered less than the Hebrew ancient tradition, but what should be considered not pleasing to God is shacking up and calling having sex being married. It is not. It is fornicating without shame.

If you go to a church where couples can live together without being married and feel comfortable, you are sitting at a table of demons and should leave that church and find one that preaches holiness and no compromise.

This would mean that your partner would just be your common in law wife..and your whole lives would be going against the purpose of God.The bible tells us not to be wise in our own eyes and I care about your spiritual well being and to be honest with you as my brother in christ who is precious to God.
Forget about what marriage is today coz the institution of marriage has been altered ie... civil partnerships,people marrying themselves,even marrying objects ect..yet the basic fundamental dynamics of marriage between a man and a woman are the same...they havent changed.
Before God your relationship wouldn't be right if your living life as a married couple but remaining unmarried..and I am sure you know this too.Falling in love and being committed to each other is Gods creation which should lead to a marital union between both parties.
Right throughout scripture it talks about husband and wives..even saying a man should leave his father and mother to cleave to his wife..
I pray that I jesus name you both come to a place of realising that it is the right thing to do to be getting married in accordance to scripture regardless of how you boy may be perceive the vows being expressed ect.
I want Gods best for your lives..💕

You're referencing traditions of men, laws, cultural norms, etc. God laid down no clear-cut ceremony, vows, or procedures for marriage. What God did was tell us who can be married and what that looks like.

1. It involves a man and a woman
2. This man and woman become one flesh
3. They are allowed to have sex
4. They should treat each other good
5. They aren't allowed to cheat on each other

I can pop off scriptures for all of the above numbered items. Meanwhile, you're arguing that the customs and traditions used in the wild west and ancient Israel are scriptural. If they are, then where does it say that Christians are bound to those those customs?

Even if we say that we must be obedient to governments then let's look at what governments say about marriage. They say that there is a separation of church and state. In other words they are saying that what a marriage is is up to that person's faith. They do offer a marriage certificate for tax reasons and legal purposes, but they aren't God's ordained ministers who make a man and one woman flesh. Again, another man made tradition.

I'm really sorry to hear you think so low of people who don't go to courthouses or have a ceremony for their wedding. I'm convinced your perspective is too condemning and legalistic.

er obviously you not talking to me

who are you talking to?
Im not marrying anybody lol.

I think one of the posters is living with an unbeliever. I dont think believers should marry unbeliever. NO WAY. thats just MHO though. Some believers think why not, maybe they already have or going to have children. They must have a lot more faith than any of us in their spouse over Jesus.

The bible does talk about marriage ceremonies. They are mentioned to an audience that was already familiar with them so you have to do a little more research to find out what they were like. Jesus spoke of a marriage supper, about the virgins that attended the procession when the Bridegroom came to get his bride, and other such accounts that we have, but we have to review Hebrew culture to understand. This is biblical scripture on the Approval of Jesus Christ that it is God's method to have such ceremonies and written contracts. What would a writing of divorce be (as mentioned in several scriptures) if there was no writing of the marriage contract?
Certainly the bible does give information of such ceremonies and documents and as I said, the authors assumed the audience was familiar, but we are in need of learning history and culture because of being 2000 years removed from the daily life of that audience. Nevertheless that history was recorded in other writings besides the bible and we are not ignorant if we are willing to read.

I am repeating myself, but these records were kept in the Temple and people went there to research them when needed. It is biblical to have legal documents. We have no authority to create an imagined culture that never existed in history of a caveman taking a woman and having sex with her and calling it married. There is no historical record of that. There is every reason to believe that the very first mention of the sons of God taking wives included some kind of ceremony before witnesses. Marriage ceremonies before witnesses were the norm throughout recorded history and therefore we should use recorded history among the Hebrews as our basis for marriage customs and not an imagined prehistory concept that we make up in our own minds.

We should also use the marriage customs of the time of Jesus Christ as our pattern or rule for faith and practice since he showed his approval of these customs by using them as typology of theology concerning himself and the church. At no time would any village of Jews at the time of Christ recognize a marriage without ceremony, witnesses, contracts and in a religious context. At no time in the history of the Church has the act of shacking up and having sex been considered marriage. Marriage always included the approval of the organized society of the Jews and also of the church. It was never just something a man an woman did without including the society in which they were a part.

So, no you may not go to the top of some scenic mountain and say your vows together alone and then get to claim you can now have sex. It's been tried folks, God says no. Don't do it, you will be wrong everytime just like all those who tried that before and later repented. No need to learn that lesson over again. Just wait, be patient and do it right. No one ever said, "I regret waiting and doing it right."

I wonder how many times I will have to teach this to people over the years to come. It is starting to look like I might need to write a booklet to hand out on this subject. I better get started.

That's a lot of words to not quote a single Biblical example of what marriage vows are supposed to be for Christians, if any, and what the ceremony should be, if any, or if there should be witnesses, if any. Spoiler: there aren't any.

Write your book, but be careful teaching the doctrines of men as commandments of God. If that's your goal I'm going to have to insist you don't distribute that literature in the name of Christ. Maybe market it is as just your opinion. The last thing we need is someone going around spreading extra-Biblical doctrines and making us all look like heretics.

Booklet. A mere handout to cover all the scriptures on the subject to awaken understanding.

So Jesus references to wedding ceremonies and customs (10 virgins) Bridegroom processions, whole family turnouts with "friends of bridegroom: included, celebrations and feasts afterwards, etc..., and also Jesus using these as typology of Jesus coming for the church does not demonstrate His stamp of approval on such ceremonies?

You can find the address to these scriptures yourself if you search key words. I would still ask the same question if I posted them all below. My not posting them does not mean they do not exist. You know they do.

I am not trying to have a "right fight" I was simply trying to answer a question people often have about whether the bible mentions marriage ceremonies and yes it does. Jesus mentioning them in his parables to teach theological lessons puts a HUGE STAMP OF APPROVAL on them, don't you think? Of course it does. Now you understand. I knew it would click once you thought about it a second.

Jesus teaching theological concepts using various aspects of the Jewish Wedding customs puts a HUGE STAMP of APPROVAL on wedding ceremonies in the eyes of the Lord and suggests that they should be observed when getting married. The most important being the public confession of vows and entering a covenant before witnesses which will hold you to those promises. This is God's method and it always has been and always will be.

Im not marrying anybody lol

If you don't plan on getting married then why do you date?

... You have to apply for this from the court. You can't say me and my girlfriend are common law married because we have been living together for x amount of years and the common marriage laws do not state that. You might decide this is not working out and ask your girlfriend of 10 years to leave and she could sue you for half your record collection and say she is your common law wife but the courts do not recognize this without it having been applied for and agreed upon by both parties. One person cannot declare common law without both parties applying for and agreeing to this.

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So yes, by the grace of God I think it will be OK. And if not, I'll just get a divorce and remain single. I don't see myself getting married again if I should divorce. I'm not saying I will run at the first sign of trouble or I won't fight for my marriage, but the reality is sometimes marriages just don't work out. And sometimes they do, and I pray mine will if I should ever get married.

well people want to marry in church or by church because they want the extra blessing, If you dont really want to be blessed then dont...but not sure why you wouldnt want to be blessed, if its God who brought you together.

by two or three witnesses its confirmed, but the point of a wedding party is all the other witnesses plus room for miracles (Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding) and not to mention the feast.

The state requires you go register as married otherwise your property that you share is NOT yours, and your children wont belong to you either, they would be illegitimate, and if you died they wouldnt be looked after they would be wards of the state and wouldnt be able to inherit anything.

I think you make a good point. If I understand you correctly, you're trying to say that marriage without legal recognition is just as valid as one validated by the state. You are correct.

The legal document produced by the state known as a marriage certificate does not usually involve placing vows because it is received from a courthouse. This legal document is simply for tax purposes and other legalities that can arise. It isn't a requirement.

A marriage without the documents and legal red tape is still a marriage, it just isn't legally binding by the state; God still recognizes marriage.

I think some states have what is known as "common law" where if you're living with an alleged spouse for X number of years then they are a defacto husband or wife for legal purposes.

So you're right.