The Error is Baptism in Jesus name only for salvation

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lrs68

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Dec 30, 2024
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Ok, here are some more. Understand that nowhere in scripture do we explicitly read the word 'Trinity' but it is implied in numerous places

Genesis. God state let US make man in OUR image. He was not addressing angels or we would all have wings. We are tripartite beings, body, soul and spirit which we (when I say we I mean those who adhere to the belief in the Trinity which are most Christians and Bible scholars) illustrative of God in three persons, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. I Cor. 8:6

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Cor. 13:14

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance. I Peter 1: 1-2

So there's a start for you. However, you should research this doctrine and see and find for yourself. That way, you will be either convinced or not convinced. You (everyone) should get into the habit of doing research and not just depend on others to fill them in

As much as I agree with the Verses you have provided none of them tell us one way or another if these are persons. I believe they are Spirit because the WORD before manifesting into flesh was obviously Spirit. And the Old Testament Christophanies were clearly manifestations.


Look at the Hebrew: [I am Hebrew and reason I am asking these questions]

24 Then Hashem rained upon Sodom and upon Amora gofrit and eish from Hashem out of Shomayim;

This is saying the same God is in 2 places at one time. In one place on Earth while also being in Heaven.

I am just mentioning this because God can be Himself while being 2 representatives and it doesn't mean more than one entity being God.

These are the words God gave to Moses to prove He is Hashem [Elohim].
 

lrs68

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Dec 30, 2024
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You are literally saying 2 different things here. One cancels the other. Please study the doctrine for yourself and stop guessing :giggle::coffee:
I disagree.

My example proves what the Bible says about God does manifest Himself where it never calls God persons.
 

ocean

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Oct 15, 2024
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As much as I agree with the Verses you have provided none of them tell us one way or another if these are persons. I believe they are Spirit because the WORD before manifesting into flesh was obviously Spirit. And the Old Testament Christophanies were clearly manifestations.


Look at the Hebrew: [I am Hebrew and reason I am asking these questions]

24 Then Hashem rained upon Sodom and upon Amora gofrit and eish from Hashem out of Shomayim;

This is saying the same God is in 2 places at one time. In one place on Earth while also being in Heaven.

I am just mentioning this because God can be Himself while being 2 representatives and it doesn't mean more than one entity being God.

These are the words God gave to Moses to prove He is Hashem [Elohim].
Oh. I thought you were actually asking something.
 

Beckworth

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May 15, 2019
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The issue is the legalism they use to control people with a teaching that is used in One supporting text or verse Acts 2:38

Yet remember it is not only being baptized in Jesus' name, you must speak in tongues too or you're not saved.

The Concept of the Trinity that they says they don't agree with fail to acknowledge that those of us who see the Trun9ie God in Scripture will confess we can not fully comprehend the full Divine Nature of GOD. Some here think they can. Pride and modes, and manifestations of all in one are not supported by the word of GOD Unless you can say I know all there is to know about The Living GOD.

Man is limited and our ability to know God and the Eternal Godhead can only be achieved in the venues God provides. Because we are limited.

Here are the only ways :

1. General Revelation by what God created Roman chapter 1:18-20

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,




2. Special Revelation The word of God


Hebrews chapter 1, verses 1 and 2, describes how this special revelation has occurred:

Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.​
So what we’re being told here is that God has specially revealed Himself by speaking to us: first through the Old Testament prophets but most recently through His Son Jesus Christ. This is special revelation: a specific revealing of what God is like, to a particular people.
There’s only so much you can tell about an artist from the things he’s created. To really get to know him, we’d need to meet him.

That’s why Jesus is the ultimate example of special revelation.”

3. Relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God

That is it. You can know no more and receive no less.

About that divine revelation—Hebrews 1 says that God spoke to people IN TIMES PAST in various ways; visions, dreams, divine revelations, through prophecies, etc. BUT NOW… In these “last days”, He speaks to us through His Son. The New Tesrament is the last will and testament of Jesus Christ. 2 Tim. 3:16 says that the scriptures make us COMPLETE, and furnishes us with everything we need —thoroughly equippes us for every good work.

Galatians 1:8 says even if an angel from heaven teaches you anything other than what is in the Bible, he is accursed.. He repeats this warning in verse 9. “if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.” So if an angel can’t preach anything other than what we have in the Bible, what do we need an angel for? We have the words of Jesus and the Holy Spirit in the Bible. We can’t take the words of an angel over them. And we can be sure God would never tell us anything that contradicts His word—the Bible.
 

lrs68

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Dec 30, 2024
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I don't understand.
Isn't it adding to the Holy Word of God by giving God a category like persons if the Bible doesn't make that same claim?
I am confused.
Is it ok to make things up about the Bible to fit our beliefs?
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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Paul literally says...since you believed. How can you say he didn't think they were believers?
Acts 19:4
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
 

lrs68

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Dec 30, 2024
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24 God is a Spirit:

Am I wrong to believe what Jesus said here?

Father - Son - Holy Spirit = 24 God is a Spirit: [Yeshua manifested in the flesh]
 

Wansvic

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But Christ was before the Body of Jesus came to be.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1
 

Cameron143

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The external manifestation attested to the Holy Spirit having come to dwell inside the individuals. Consider the following if this were not true:

How did Paul expect the 12 to know whether they had received the Holy Ghost or not?
Note: after their experience there would be no difficulty in answering: Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?

How did the Samaritans know that had not received the Holy Ghost yet?

Why did Jesus say to ask for the Holy Ghost if in fact believers already have the Holy Ghost?

How would Jesus' listeners know whether or not they needed to ask for the Holy Ghost?
An external manifestation of the Spirit only verifies the presence of the Spirit. It doesn't verify an indwelling presence. Everyone present at Pentecost knew something was going on. Not all were indwelt with the Spirit.
 

Lamar

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May 21, 2023
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Jesus is what we must go through to be saved,
What a vague and uncertain generalization of the Gospel.

We don't need baptism for the remission of sins because "Jesus is what we must go through to be saved"?

Is this your reasoning?

Do you think this way about everything?

In your world is a definitive always negated by a generalization?

No one can operate this way.

IOW, you are using this reasoning only to ignore the true purpose of water baptism.
 

Aaron56

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Jul 12, 2021
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From what was Noah saved? Noah was saved From physical destruction by water. From what are we saved ( by baptism)? We are saved From SPIRITUAL destruction by water. Type and anti type. He used a physical example to teach a spiritual truth. Not the first time the Spirit teaches this way.
Mostly accurate.

Men's spirits are never destroyed. They return to the Father who gave them.
Also, the judgment of God is not the same as the punishment of God.

Considering Noah:

There is judgement "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
Then there is sentencing: "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air..."

Just a bit later:

There is a judgement: "The end of all flesh (the end = pinnacle; fullness) has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them..."
Then there is sentencing: "..I will destroy them with the earth."

For Noah the same pattern emerges.

There is judgement: "Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God."
Then there is sentencing: "Come into the ark, you and all your household..."

Now, consider our position in the Lord:
We must agree the rule of this world (its way and scheme) stands condemned: "But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world."

So we, who are in Christ, are not judged according to the world: "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus..."

Being placed into Christ Jesus is the work of the Holy Spirit by His (the Spirit's) baptism: "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body..."

This reality vests in us by faith.

Jesus said to Paul, regarding those to whom Paul was sent:
‘...open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

So, if our position in Christ is secured by faith in Christ, then why is water baptism important?
Because the corruption of the world opposes us AND because the law condemns us.

So, what do we do? We die.

And we signal to the angels who oppose us, by immersion in water, that we reckon ourselves dead in Him and consequently, dead to sin. So, we are saved from the sentencing of the world (because there is no charge of sin against us while we are in Him) and from the enemy who opposes us.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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The external manifestation attested to the Holy Spirit having come to dwell inside the individuals. Consider the following if this were not true:

How did Paul expect the 12 to know whether they had received the Holy Ghost or not?
Note: after their experience there would be no difficulty in answering: Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?

How did the Samaritans know that had not received the Holy Ghost yet?

Why did Jesus say to ask for the Holy Ghost if in fact believers already have the Holy Ghost?

How would Jesus' listeners know whether or not they needed to ask for the Holy Ghost?

First of all, you limit the Spirit of God. Jesus said the Empowerment of the Holy Spirit would happen after he ascended. And he taught that in John chapters 14 and 15.

The reason Jesus said this is that the Holy Spirit can be in you and come upon you. Two different works of the Holy Spirt and God

FYI, God can be everywhere and yet near. God in His habits, the praises of His people don't mean God is not everywhere until you praise Him. It is an action done in the faith of those who worship him in Spirit and in truth.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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An external manifestation of the Spirit only verifies the presence of the Spirit. It doesn't verify an indwelling presence. Everyone present at Pentecost knew something was going on. Not all were indwelt with the Spirit.
That is incorrect.
John 20:22

22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.


what does that mean He breathed on them ?

Luke 24 gives us insight into what happened:

40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” 42 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. 43 And He took it and ate in their presence.

44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.


This next point in Luke you must deal with:


46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city [m]of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”


Jesus is not quoted as saying to be baptized here as He did in Mathew 28:19 Nor did he even say it in context to

repentance and remission of sins

Why?

You would think something so crucial as water Baptism in the name of Jesus would have been stated for Salvation, but it is not,

BUT Repentance and remission is and preaching in HIS Name is.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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What a vague and uncertain generalization of the Gospel.

We don't need baptism for the remission of sins because "Jesus is what we must go through to be saved"?

Is this your reasoning?

Do you think this way about everything?

In your world is a definitive always negated by a generalization?

No one can operate this way.

IOW, you are using this reasoning only to ignore the true purpose of water baptism.

Am I?


So John 3:16-19 states Believe in The Son of God for salvation
Roman chapter 10:9-11 states to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved
Luke 24:47 states 47 that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem..


Romans 6 states Water baptism is symbolic and a public act, as we see contextually in that chapter.
 

DeanM

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May 4, 2021
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I never said water baptism excluded the necessity to believe in Jesus, and repent. The topic being addressed is whether baptism in Jesus name is necessary for salvation.
The thief on the cross wasnt baptised at all. Baptism doesnt save anyone. People are saved by grace through faith.