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That's fine. :) But they don't teach the Holy Spirit is not God. If it helps to think of them as three separate entities, fine. But to say one of them is not God, there is a problem. No one teaches that they are not God. So, there is a verse that says God is Spirit. The Holy Spirit Jesus said...

Prophecy has always been that way. Even before Jesus came. How could they have possibly understood where it said Jesus was to come from three different places? And there were arguments about that. Because even in the OT, after Jesus came and was here, one teacher said - no prophet comes from...

God IS Spirit. The Holy Spirit IS God. The Trinity is a difficult thing to try to grasp. You can't quite do it. :)

I understand what you're saying. :) As far as a confusion and things being all jumbled together, it appears that, regarding future things, it is God Himself who has jumbled it together in a sense. Take the famous Isaiah passage. Unless Jesus had stopped reading where He did, we would not...

I don't know...what I see men do is not to ignore past fulfillments but rather to say that it wasn't complete or didn't meet ALL of the requirements or points to have been the full fulfillment...

And eschatology, like everything else - if you know everything there is to know about endtimes but you don't walk in the Spirit in love, you're just a noisy bell.

I think I understand what you're saying here... I see a lot of eschatological arguments in here and yet see the men who engage most strenuously in them to not be walking in the Spirit. They aren't growing in the virtues, they're just completely absorbed in things that will happen later. Is that...

Yes, Latour. :) Jesus said the words I give you are spirit and truth. Of course they have a literal meaning also, but that is just a temporary thing. That is not the spirit of the words. And it is the spirit of the words that avails a man. Not that history lessons aren't okay. They are fun to...

I do not think you should confront your pastor over this, unless it is to say you think he should not present his view on endtimes as the correct one but rather should present the differing views. Share his own opinion on which he thinks is correct, yes, but teach it as the right view, no. It's...

Oh yes, I have understood the verses! :) I was making the point that almost all of our arguing is over - oh, you know what it's not important. :)

I didn't get from what mark has said, that he doubts his salvation. I rather got that he was saying he couldn't be sure of someone elses salvation. I could be wrong but that's what I got.

Actually, I didn't say whether they ever had faith, had faith and then lost faith, or anything concerning it. I was just noting that they had a reputation that they were men of God but that Jesus says although they have that reputation that they are alive, they are not. They are dead.

I don't think it's a silly question at all. When I am struggling with a verse, it's usually because I'm forgetting an atribute of God. If I'm wondering how God can say: written in the book from the foundation of the world, I'm forgetting temporarily that He sees the end of each of us from the...

Gotta go do some work. It's been so nice to meet you mark. :)

He grafted us in so we should take care that our hearts do not become evil and unbelieving as with Israel.

AMEN !! Amen again!!

I can find myself in a place of grumbling and complaining very often when monkey wrenches fly from all directions during the course of the day, and then I recall that I may make my plans but it is HE who guides my steps. And when it doesn't go according to my plans, I most often get cranked up...

I agree wholeheartedly! That obedience we "contribute" is the obedience of faith, and that obedience is learned and it grows. We learn the obedience of faith (trust) by the things we suffer and experience and the situations and circumstances He places us in.

I do believe there is something we could be said to "contribute" - not to our being drawn, called, healed of blindness, and saving - but after that. We make choices everyday to either side with the world or refuse the worlds wisdom and to side with and stand firm in faith. We may hear some...

Oh yes, we definitely all agree. We just tend to state things that, if we examined them, we would stop saying! :)