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I have heard you say many good things and I have watched you say those things with peaceableness, humbleness, calm and respect. And you are doing so without a list of doctrinal talking points in front of you. You speak to engage with other men and you have no wile in you. This shouldn't be such...

I agree very much with this.

I think that's the way it's supposed to work. That He gives everyone something to add to the pot and their little piece to add is another line or bit or verse that makes up the entire balance. To discuss with each other should bring us all closer to agreement in an oh, yeah, I forgot that verse...

It's always possible to just ignore those who you see aren't listening or reading the posts carefully, or who have an agenda of self-promotion. We could try it. If you try to explain why you see something a bit differently and they can't even follow the steps and verses you took to get there...

Well let's not throw our egos around then. Let's walk well with each other while we try to understand how each of us sees and processes what we read. :)

I think it IS taking credit. I would never have had, and continue to have, the opportunity to trust and to continue to trust, unless He had restored my ability to see and hear, then been pleased to show me His Son, then sowed that small seed, then watered it, then grown it. And all the while...

We want to always take some of the credit, some of the glory. Just sneak a little for ourselves. That is just how we are.

:poop: No man has sowed the seed in himself. How then can he claim credit for the faith?

I didn't call you a liar...how on EARTH did you arrive at that from what I said...?? :eek:

I agree. You can't take credit for any of it - including the sowing of the seed of faith in you, the watering, the growing. Nothing.

I don't agree. I think "that" refers back to the total verse. We can't boast of our saving in any way. We can't take credit for the kindness OR the faith. We can't take credit for being the author or finisher in any way, shape or fashion.

Okay, then it could be said that prevenient grace/the regeneration of sight and hearing, comes before regeneration of the total man.

Then some sort of word must be used other than regeneration to convey: the restoring of sight and hearing that comes before the regeneration of the whole man. What word would one use for the partial regeneration/restoring of sight and hearing that can then lead to the mans total regeneration?

I never saw Revelation 3:1 so starkly...! By their deeds/works, they had a good reputation with men. They had the reputation of being men of God. They would be an example of works without faith... Interesting.

Do you think your faith/trust sprang from within you and was your doing? (That's a question.) Saved by the kindness/grace of God through trust/faith, and that trust/faith not of yourself so no man can boast of his faith. That is how the verse says it. And that (faith) not of yourself...

As for order of regeneration and belief, not sure what every mans definition of regeneration is but there needs to be some amount or sort of regeneration to occur before believing because we're all born blind and deaf and you can't see what you can't see or hear what you can't hear. So at the...

I don't understand why people have such a problem with foreknowledge and all-knowingness. I really don't. Then again, they probably don't understand why I can't grasp some concepts that they facilely handle either.

love others as you love yourself includes care for youself. It's silly to argue that it doesnt.

Actually, what we are talking about is this:

I think the man was very patient with a lot of argument for the sake of argument from some. You have to admit, it got a bit silly! :confused: