50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord
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Full disclosure here. I am a dispensationalist.
Go ahead and test me on any other doctrine.
Go ahead and test me on any other doctrine.
What am I saying differently "now" from that which I've already been saying??
The word "end" in v.9 references back to what Jesus is pointing out about what "many [who will come in His name, will be (FALSELY)] saying, '[...]; AND THE TIME DRAWETH NEAR'" (to which Jesus instructs: "go ye not therefore after them" and then tells what are the "these things must FIRST come to pass" and still yet, "but the END is not by and by," meaning, the point in time those He's referencing in v.8 and what THEY will be saying (i.e. "the time draweth near")... Jesus is saying, no, first "the BEGINNING of birth pangs" events must unfold (i.e. SEALS), and then more birth pangs following on from those (i.e. vv.25-26,28,31) before the actual event of Jesus' RETURN takes place in v.27, referring to the point in time of their "redemption" (v.28c references) and "the kingdom of God" (v.31c references; ... which things, leading UP TO that point in time, are simply "NIGH" and "NIGH AT HAND" rather than themselves being the "END" [end-point] being referenced in v.9)
The context of Matt10 covers both the NEAR events (70ad) and the FAR-FUTURE events (future 7-yr Trib yrs), and if I recall rightly, the division starts around v.21... so your v.22 falls into the latter category.
Matt24 STARTS OFF with "the beginning of birth pangs" (at the START of the "far-future" 7-yr Trib yrs) and follows on from there, with v.14 included [and 26:13, same] referring to what WILL be being preached WITHIN those future Trib years (which is not what msg is going forth "NOW" / "in this present age [singular]" / presently... I covered that in other posts, so won't get into that here in this post...)
The word "end" in v.9 references back to what Jesus is pointing out about what "many [who will come in His name, will be (FALSELY)] saying, '[...]; AND THE TIME DRAWETH NEAR'" (to which Jesus instructs: "go ye not therefore after them" and then tells what are the "these things must FIRST come to pass" and still yet, "but the END is not by and by," meaning, the point in time those He's referencing in v.8 and what THEY will be saying (i.e. "the time draweth near")... Jesus is saying, no, first "the BEGINNING of birth pangs" events must unfold (i.e. SEALS), and then more birth pangs following on from those (i.e. vv.25-26,28,31) before the actual event of Jesus' RETURN takes place in v.27, referring to the point in time of their "redemption" (v.28c references) and "the kingdom of God" (v.31c references; ... which things, leading UP TO that point in time, are simply "NIGH" and "NIGH AT HAND" rather than themselves being the "END" [end-point] being referenced in v.9)
The context of Matt10 covers both the NEAR events (70ad) and the FAR-FUTURE events (future 7-yr Trib yrs), and if I recall rightly, the division starts around v.21... so your v.22 falls into the latter category.
Matt24 STARTS OFF with "the beginning of birth pangs" (at the START of the "far-future" 7-yr Trib yrs) and follows on from there, with v.14 included [and 26:13, same] referring to what WILL be being preached WITHIN those future Trib years (which is not what msg is going forth "NOW" / "in this present age [singular]" / presently... I covered that in other posts, so won't get into that here in this post...)
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No. I believe that both Jew and Gentile are "one in Christ" during this dispensation of the church. I understand the Tribulation as the fulfillment of God's promise to Israel of 490 years. According to those who can count, at the time of the crucifixion, 483 years had passed. So the Tribulation is the fulfillment of the promise.
How'd I do?
How'd I do?
I just had to put FreeGrace2 on my ignore list for Divisive behavior.
I would like to encourage everyone who does not like his Divisive behavior, to do the same.
I would like to encourage everyone who does not like his Divisive behavior, to do the same.
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I do take Rev4-5 at face value. = )
And I *do* believe what Jesus said (I just explained that part in my previous post ^ ... rather, in my Post #3726 - https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4580553 ).
And I had provided a number of reasons why I DO believe "the beginning of birth pangs / SEALS" *are* at the START of the Trib yrs / 70th Week:
--because of the CONSISTENT "ye / you" (and "proleptic 'you'") in Matt24...
...that is, vv.4's 2x "you" and v.6's 2x "you" and v.9's 3x "you" are the SAME ["consistent" and "proleptic"] "YOU" that v.15 speaks of (at the AOD MID-trib point in time; as well as v.20's "you" and "your"; and v.23's "you"; and v.26's 2x "you"--all being WITHIN the trib yrs / 70th Wk!)
I'd also supplied other reasons:
--Rev1:1 / 4:1 / 1:19c speaking of the "future" aspects of the Book being "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (parallel this phrase also in Lk18:8 and Rom16:20--things that AREN'T HAPPENING in this present age, but WILL in that future 70th Week);
--that Rev5:9 has the 24 elders saying "hast redeemed US... out-of EVERY..." and casting their "CROWNS" [4:10] (which aren't even received until the "BEMA of Christ") at Jesus' feet (the ONE "worthy" One);
--and the "was found" wording in 5:4 indicating that, by this point in the scene, the "searching judgment" has ALREADY TAKEN PLACE (just like that phrase is also used of Paul in the latter chpts of Acts, when he is brought before THEIR [human / earthly] "bema")
--etc etc...
I disagree that the "2W's 1260 days" is identical to the other reference to "1260 days," and do not believe THEIR "1260 days" fall exclusively IN EITHER HALF; rather those "STRADDLE" the two halves. I also disagree with your "7th, 7th, 7th" idea... but would rather cover that in a separate thread... maybe cv5 will open one on that topic some day. = D
And I *do* believe what Jesus said (I just explained that part in my previous post ^ ... rather, in my Post #3726 - https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4580553 ).
And I had provided a number of reasons why I DO believe "the beginning of birth pangs / SEALS" *are* at the START of the Trib yrs / 70th Week:
--because of the CONSISTENT "ye / you" (and "proleptic 'you'") in Matt24...
...that is, vv.4's 2x "you" and v.6's 2x "you" and v.9's 3x "you" are the SAME ["consistent" and "proleptic"] "YOU" that v.15 speaks of (at the AOD MID-trib point in time; as well as v.20's "you" and "your"; and v.23's "you"; and v.26's 2x "you"--all being WITHIN the trib yrs / 70th Wk!)
I'd also supplied other reasons:
--Rev1:1 / 4:1 / 1:19c speaking of the "future" aspects of the Book being "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (parallel this phrase also in Lk18:8 and Rom16:20--things that AREN'T HAPPENING in this present age, but WILL in that future 70th Week);
--that Rev5:9 has the 24 elders saying "hast redeemed US... out-of EVERY..." and casting their "CROWNS" [4:10] (which aren't even received until the "BEMA of Christ") at Jesus' feet (the ONE "worthy" One);
--and the "was found" wording in 5:4 indicating that, by this point in the scene, the "searching judgment" has ALREADY TAKEN PLACE (just like that phrase is also used of Paul in the latter chpts of Acts, when he is brought before THEIR [human / earthly] "bema")
--etc etc...
I disagree that the "2W's 1260 days" is identical to the other reference to "1260 days," and do not believe THEIR "1260 days" fall exclusively IN EITHER HALF; rather those "STRADDLE" the two halves. I also disagree with your "7th, 7th, 7th" idea... but would rather cover that in a separate thread... maybe cv5 will open one on that topic some day. = D
YES I believe, the Jews will build the Third Temple, not convinced it will be on the right Location.
Do you know there are PLENTY of Non-Blood Sacrifices involved in Temple Worship ? ? ?
The Two Witnesses of Revelation will TEACH THEM that JESUS is their final blood Sacrifice.
The Antichrist will put an end to ALL SACIFICES in the TEMPLE, sit in the Holy of Holies, and proclaim, now you will worship me.
I agree there will be a third temple, but it'll be inhabited by an anti-Christ. The construction of the third temple, with temple activities in session, will be an important milestone in fulfilment of end times prophecy.
Do you believe this third temple, complete with animal and non-animal sacrifices for sin offerings, will be ordained by God though?
Do you believe this third temple, complete with animal and non-animal sacrifices for sin offerings, will be ordained by God though?
FreeGrace2 said:
No. I believe that both Jew and Gentile are "one in Christ" during this dispensation of the church. I understand the Tribulation as the fulfillment of God's promise to Israel of 490 years. According to those who can count, at the time of the crucifixion, 483 years had passed. So the Tribulation is the fulfillment of the promise.
How'd I do?
Well, thank you.
No, I do not. Everything in the OT pointed to the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Law was a "tutor" to lead us to Christ (Gal 3).
Paul taught about "one new man" in Eph 2, and the two being one. And every believer is "in union with Christ", and Paul clarified that to mean there is "neither male or female, Jew or Gentile, etc."
Again, I view the 7 year Tribulation is the fulfillment of God's promise of 490 years, of which 483 years ended at the cross.
Recall Rev 14 and angels flying in mid air "proclaiming the gospel" to the world. It isn't about animal sacrifices or keeping the law that they will be proclaiming. It's the eternal gospel of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
I also believe that salvation is the exact same whether in the OT or NT. Remember that Paul proved from the Scriptures (OT) that Jesus was the Christ (Messiah). He didn't quote from any epistle. He was the one who wrote most of them. His source was the OT and he was able to prove from the OT that salvation is by faith in the Messiah.
How'm I doing?
No. I believe that both Jew and Gentile are "one in Christ" during this dispensation of the church. I understand the Tribulation as the fulfillment of God's promise to Israel of 490 years. According to those who can count, at the time of the crucifixion, 483 years had passed. So the Tribulation is the fulfillment of the promise.
How'd I do?
Well, thank you.
No, I do not. Everything in the OT pointed to the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Law was a "tutor" to lead us to Christ (Gal 3).
Paul taught about "one new man" in Eph 2, and the two being one. And every believer is "in union with Christ", and Paul clarified that to mean there is "neither male or female, Jew or Gentile, etc."
Again, I view the 7 year Tribulation is the fulfillment of God's promise of 490 years, of which 483 years ended at the cross.
Recall Rev 14 and angels flying in mid air "proclaiming the gospel" to the world. It isn't about animal sacrifices or keeping the law that they will be proclaiming. It's the eternal gospel of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
I also believe that salvation is the exact same whether in the OT or NT. Remember that Paul proved from the Scriptures (OT) that Jesus was the Christ (Messiah). He didn't quote from any epistle. He was the one who wrote most of them. His source was the OT and he was able to prove from the OT that salvation is by faith in the Messiah.
How'm I doing?