Alcohol
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Do we really think the Lord Jesus turned water into spoiled, fermented grape juice? Let's do a little study on the word wine.
New wine, fresh grape juice, is said to be found in the cluster.
Isaiah 65:8 "Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all."
Then in the below verse we see that new wine is called the "fruit of the vine". At the Lord's Supper they were drinking new wine(grape juice), not fermented wine as the Catholics drink at Mass.
Matthew 26:29 "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."
New wine can be made by squeezing a bunch of grapes into a cup according to the below verse.
Genesis 40:11 "And Pharaoh's cup was in my hand: and I took the grapes, and pressed them into Pharaoh's cup, and I gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand."
Kings and the wealthy had access to new wine anytime they wanted. It was a privilege. At weddings, new wine would be served first, the good stuff. Then after the good stuff was gone, they would bring out the older wine, the spoiled fermented grape juice.
Numbers 6
3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
4 All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.
Wine = fresh grape juice
Strong drink = spoiled, fermented wine
People try to say that Jesus made water into fermented wine, but that is utter blasphemy. Six water pots of stone would have been about 72 to 162 gallons of wine, which would have got everyone drunk that was there. If this wine was fermented then Jesus broke the law and was a sinner. We know this is not so because our Lord is sinless and that Jesus made new wine, which is grape juice.
Habakkuk 2:15 "Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also.." Obviously the passage is talking about strong drink or wine. Woe unto our Lord? Nope, not if it were fresh wine.
There is so many more. One must put into context the word wine and refer to new or strong. Anyone remember using the word strong referring to something that is spoiled because it smelled really bad? Wow, that's strong! It's spoiled!
New wine, fresh grape juice, is said to be found in the cluster.
Isaiah 65:8 "Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all."
Then in the below verse we see that new wine is called the "fruit of the vine". At the Lord's Supper they were drinking new wine(grape juice), not fermented wine as the Catholics drink at Mass.
Matthew 26:29 "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."
New wine can be made by squeezing a bunch of grapes into a cup according to the below verse.
Genesis 40:11 "And Pharaoh's cup was in my hand: and I took the grapes, and pressed them into Pharaoh's cup, and I gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand."
Kings and the wealthy had access to new wine anytime they wanted. It was a privilege. At weddings, new wine would be served first, the good stuff. Then after the good stuff was gone, they would bring out the older wine, the spoiled fermented grape juice.
Numbers 6
3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
4 All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.
Wine = fresh grape juice
Strong drink = spoiled, fermented wine
People try to say that Jesus made water into fermented wine, but that is utter blasphemy. Six water pots of stone would have been about 72 to 162 gallons of wine, which would have got everyone drunk that was there. If this wine was fermented then Jesus broke the law and was a sinner. We know this is not so because our Lord is sinless and that Jesus made new wine, which is grape juice.
Habakkuk 2:15 "Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also.." Obviously the passage is talking about strong drink or wine. Woe unto our Lord? Nope, not if it were fresh wine.
There is so many more. One must put into context the word wine and refer to new or strong. Anyone remember using the word strong referring to something that is spoiled because it smelled really bad? Wow, that's strong! It's spoiled!
E
eph610
Guest
Lets not and say we did, because you are not going to change anyone 's mind who believes different and nobody is going change you mind on what you believe....
freinds,
Eph
Biology does play some part. It's a combination of biological, psychological, social, and even spiritual. Not one aspect is the same for everyone.
C
CharlieGrown
Guest
It was fine wine according to the wine steward. How many weddings have you attended that served grape juice?
Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs “Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” I hardly think that drinking Welch's grape juice is going to make any heart merry or make hearts glad.
The Greek work oinos means wine.
Jesus encouraged the multitudes to have their fill of the loaves and fishes that He multiplied. Do you believe that by this Jesus was promoting gluttony too?
Exactly what law did Jesus break by turning water into wine?
"Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works."
Eat with joy and drink with a merry heart, a joyful attitude. Eat and drink with joy. Where in the world would one try and make that mean alcohol?
Psalm 104 is talking about the bounty of blessings the Lord has provided, food, drink, oil, trees, birds, etc.. Again, why would one try and make this alcohol for no other reason but to justify his desire to drink an alcoholic drink?
What law would Jesus had broken if it were strong wine?
Habakkuk 2:15 for starters
G
Gr8grace
Guest
Deut 14~~24“If the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the LORD your God chooses to set His name is too far away from you when the LORD your God blesses you, 25then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses. 26“You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say,
'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors
and sinners.' But wisdom is proved right by her deeds."
L
LaurenTM
Guest
So, all you Welche's grape juice swillers.....God picked Noah as the ONLY righteous person on the entire planet to save from the flood...Noah and by default, his family.
Noah, after the fact, planted a vinyard and made fermented wine, drank too much and got royally drunk.
THIS, was the guy God Himself picked!
Would God have picked YOU, whoever you are, to be the most righteous man on earth?
we can talk about David, the prophets, Saul/Paul, Peter and a whole bunch of others RIGHTEOUS people as well
It is ONLY the SELF-RIGHTEOUS that God does not pick...but no matter, they blow their own BULLhorn so much, they can't tell the difference
So, lets take the adultery, the murder, the wars, the incest, the child sacrifice, the persecution, the idol worship and all the other uncomfortable ways people sinned in the Bible and clean that book up!!!!
knowing full well someone will twist what I have said and make the fermentation of grape juice to be the devil's brew here and myself the advocate for such, I write the above anyway for the sake of those who actually have the gray matter to think for themselves, study for themselves (without twisting words in a foreign language to make your own life fit the Bible)
Does it occur to any of you smug little kiddies that God WANTS us to see humanity as is, in order to make known to us that HE alone can clean up our acts?
you don't want to drink wine..then don't
who cares...what matters is the way you attempt to force your own imprisoned little minds on everyone else
I can take it or leave it...I do like some wine now and then and brandy as well
now someone will take that and in their mind I have become a drunk...remember Noah...but I do not drink to excess
there are a bunch of QUACKS here telling us that the Bible needs to be screened and cleaned and life is a tidy napkin, all folded over and washed in bleach
all you are really doing, is telling us all how very righteous you are in your own eyes
Noah, after the fact, planted a vinyard and made fermented wine, drank too much and got royally drunk.
THIS, was the guy God Himself picked!
Would God have picked YOU, whoever you are, to be the most righteous man on earth?
we can talk about David, the prophets, Saul/Paul, Peter and a whole bunch of others RIGHTEOUS people as well
It is ONLY the SELF-RIGHTEOUS that God does not pick...but no matter, they blow their own BULLhorn so much, they can't tell the difference
So, lets take the adultery, the murder, the wars, the incest, the child sacrifice, the persecution, the idol worship and all the other uncomfortable ways people sinned in the Bible and clean that book up!!!!
knowing full well someone will twist what I have said and make the fermentation of grape juice to be the devil's brew here and myself the advocate for such, I write the above anyway for the sake of those who actually have the gray matter to think for themselves, study for themselves (without twisting words in a foreign language to make your own life fit the Bible)
Does it occur to any of you smug little kiddies that God WANTS us to see humanity as is, in order to make known to us that HE alone can clean up our acts?
you don't want to drink wine..then don't
who cares...what matters is the way you attempt to force your own imprisoned little minds on everyone else
I can take it or leave it...I do like some wine now and then and brandy as well
now someone will take that and in their mind I have become a drunk...remember Noah...but I do not drink to excess
there are a bunch of QUACKS here telling us that the Bible needs to be screened and cleaned and life is a tidy napkin, all folded over and washed in bleach
all you are really doing, is telling us all how very righteous you are in your own eyes
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The only reason Noah was spared on the ark is his generations were perfect(Genesis 6:9). Noah's generational seed line had not been corrupted by the "sons of God." The whole reason for chapter 5 is to show the promised seed line of Genesis 3:15. God preserved this seed line and Noah was in it. All other flesh had been corrupted by the sons of God. Sin was well aboard that ark as God protected the seed line.
All I have done is try and show what Scripture has said. I try not to force anyone to do anything, just provide a means to make people think. The topic just happened to be alcohol. Adultery is wrong. Should we not preach against adultery? Or have the mindset "do it if you want, but I choose not to"? This is Bible Discussion website. Let's discuss what the Bible says and not how society has defined things. Even up to the 1700's the juice from grapes(Welches) was frequently referred to as wine.
"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."
L
LaurenTM
Guest
so you are pretty sure that God would choose you instead of Noah? yes?
because you alone really understand what the Bible says here, right?
it is called the BDF to be sure, but when you and others want to force YOUR opinions as understanding, it becomes something else
the Bible does not say that all other flesh had been corrupted by the sons of God...that is YOUR opinion
this is what scripture actually states in Genesis 6
11Now the earth was corrupt in the sight of God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth. 13Then God said to Noah, "The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth.…
it just states that all were corrupted...which indicates the downward spiral of sin without a redeemer...read it...it says the flesh had corrupted its own way...SIN
you entirely and completely MISSED the FACT that Noah planted a vinyard, made some wine and got rip roaring drunk to the point of parading around naked and collapsing on his bed
where do you see God sending him to hell after that? where do you see God, through Moses, saying that now Noah was condemned?
NOWHERE...that's where
however, Noah DID curse the son that mocked him
you can preach against adultery till the cows come home...it's rampant IN the church. doesn't that tell you how much good all that preaching is doing?
you and others who interpret, rather than READ and ADMIT what the text says, seem to desire to exclude or add to whatever does not fit your personal paradigm
wine is not juice and juice is not wine...tell yourself the words are interchangeable but you are arguing AGAINST the Bible
God has CHOSEN adulterers...wine bibbers...and liars...the people God has chosen do not meet your standards
you folks read the Bible and want to teach everyone else, but you will not even let the Bible say what it is actually saying
God chose me because I called upon His Son to save me from my sins. You're taking me the wrong way. I'm not forcing any opinions on anyone. It's called a discussion. A Bible discussion. That's all. Some people want to drink and use the Bible to justify it, others think that it is wrong and use the Bible to justify it. That's called a discussion.
L
LaurenTM
Guest
I just want to know what you're trying to say. The Bible talks about confronting one in sin privately. And if that doesn't work, to bring another person. And if that still doesn't work, then to bring the church. So if someone is drinking in excess constantly, or committing adultery, or binging, or sinning in anger constantly, do we just ignore them? I mean, we do have an obligation to reach out to those struggling. The Bible tells us to be careful, though, or else we will stumble also. So I'm generally asking this: Are you implying we don't confront sin at all?