Do protestants have a reasonable non-Roman-Catholic explanation for John 20:22-23?

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studier said:
2 Timothy 3:16 says plainly that ‘all Scripture is inspired by God’ - theopneustos, literally ‘God-breathed,’ a unique word in the New Testament and ancient Greek, thus seemingly chosen for this special purpose. It highlights Scripture’s divine origin and authority. The verse says nothing about anything outside Scripture, and silence does not give anyone license to declare other writings inspired or not. Those are simply human claims, not textual facts.

While ōphelimos can mean ‘useful,’ ‘profitable,’ ‘advantageous,’ or ‘beneficial,’ the surrounding context - Paul reminding Timothy of the sacred writings he has known from youth 2Tim3:14-15 and warning against false teachers - combined with the purpose clause in 2 Tim3:17 makes clear that Scripture itself is fully sufficient, not merely one aid among many. Any reading, such as in Catholic interpretations, that reduces it to a ‘helpful resource’ alongside other purported authorities ignores the fuller Text and diminishes the Scripture.
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It is you who raised up the statement:
2 Timothy 3:16, ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.



I am happy to go deeper to this with you.
The whole verse written in Greek has 13 words:
"Pasa graphe theopneustos kai ophelimos pros didaskalian pros elegchen pros epanorthosin pros paideian ten en dikaiosune." (2 Timothy 3:16 TR)



A word by word translation to English is

1) "pasa" is AN ADJECTIVE which means either "all" or "every", depending on context;
2) "graphe" is A NOUN which means "writing";
3) "theopneustos" is AN ADJECTIVE which means "God-breathed";
4) "kai" is A CONJUNCTION which means "and";
5) "ophelimos" is AN ADJECTIVE which means "profitable";
6) "pros" is A PREPOSITION which means "unto, with, for", etc.;
7) "didaskalian" is A NOUN which means "teaching, learning, doctrine";
8) "elegchen" is A NOUN which means "convincing evidence or reproof";
9) "epanorthosin" is A NOUN which means "correction";
10) "paideian" is A NOUN which means "chastening, instruction";
11) "ten" is THE DEFINITE ARTICLE meaning "the";
12) "en" is A PREPOSITION meaning "in";
13) "dikaiosune" is A NOUN which means "righteousness".



"Every (or all?) writing God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for convincing evidence, for correction, for chastening (or instruction) in the righteousness."

One point about 2 Timothy 3:16 that should immediately attract our attention is that THE GREEK TEXT OF THIS VERSE DOES NOT CONTAIN A SINGLE VERB!

This does not make sense in English.



Translator added in a verb 'is':

"Every (or all?) writing is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for convincing evidence, for correction, for chastening (or instruction) in the righteousness."

It looks good now!



However, the meaning in twisted.

"Every (or all?) writing God-breathed and profitable for teaching,...
'writing God-breathed' which is an adjective phrase now becomes an object.


All scripture is inspired by God: this could possibly also be translated, “All scripture inspired by God is useful for….”

That means scriptures contain words breathed by GOD, but not every word is God-breathed.
 
beechan said:
The first century church was made up of poor and illiterate believers. They did not have gospels yet and a copy of OT scripture was expensive. Even they had one they were unable to read. They could only listen to what elders (the church authority) taught. So there was no Sola Scriptura thing back then.
In that case, any church which teaches you Sola Scriptura is not following NT pattern of the First Century Church.
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We don’t listen to heretical teaching written by men. We follow apostolic teaching and the pattern given in Scripture.
 
beechan said:
You never dare to tell your religion or denomination in front of others. What a shame!
I stated clearly that I am Catholic.
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Religion? Did you not read any of my postings; everything seems to fly over?? The first century church is non- denominational. Man created denominations, not God.

The question is, why do follow heretical teaching??
 
“For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed….
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13‬:‭15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 
TruthDefender said:
“For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed….
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13‬:‭15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
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People can fill in whatever groups they want into ‘this people’, ‘their’ ears, ‘their’ eyes..

Protestants put Catholics into it and Catholics can put this onto Protestant too.

So,using such kind of quote is meaningless.
 
beechan said:
That's what I am asking you to ponder:Which of the 40,000+ denominations holds the 'only one HOLY SPIRIT'?
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Well ! I don't know !! God hasn't made me privy to where His Spirit goes. I DO KNOW...

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” John 3:8 ... AND ... "For there is no partiality with God." Romans 2:11
Then, by Faith ~~> "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Gal 2:20 <~~ Amen !!

Christ living IN us, by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, through the Faith of Jesus, imparts the Righteousness of The Father / Son.

That's a believing Christian character, the fruits of the Spirit, keeping God's Commandments, following the Will of the Father / God.

You'll know them by their fruit, whether they obey God or NOT. Particularly whether they respect and honor God or NOT by keeping His Sabbath, His Memorial, to His being THE CREATOR GOD. ... Hallelujah ! My Lord and King !! Amen !!

When you start obeying God, like minds will congregate, and where two or three are gathered ... etc ...
Pray and Obey God, then by Faith, He and His Church, by the Spirit, will find (incorporate) you.
still ... Sabbath Blessing, Y'all :-)
 
beechan said:
People can fill in whatever groups they want into ‘this people’, ‘their’ ears, ‘their’ eyes..

Protestants put Catholics into it and Catholics can put this onto Protestant too.

So,using such kind of quote is meaningless.
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I think He got that….
 
PaulThomson said:
I came across a video lately by so fellow who left protestantism because he claimed no protestant commentaries had anything to say about John 20:22-23, but Roman Catholic scholars did, claiming that it gives special authority to ordained priests to forgive the sins of others in the Roman Catholic sacrament of confession. So, I thought this might be a good text to discuss here.

Jhn 20:22
And (καὶ) after saying (εἰπὼν, aorist active participle) this, (τοῦτο) he breathed into (ἐνεφύσησεν, aorist active indicative) them and (καὶ) says (λέγει, present indicative active) to them (αὐτοῖς) “Receive (λάβετε, aorist active imperative, start to receive) Holy Spirit (πνεῦμα ἅγιον, anarthrous nominal: that which characterises the Holy Spirit).
20:22 καὶ τοῦτο εἰπὼν ἐνεφύσησεν καὶ λέγει αὐτοῖς λάβετε πνεῦμα ἅγιον
Jhn 20:23
“Whosoever's (ἄν τινων) sins (τὰς ἁμαρτίας, mark-missings) you release/forgive (ἀφῆτε, aorist active subjunctive), they have been released/forgiven (ἀφέωνται, perfect passive indicative, they were released/forgiven and continue to be released/forgive) to/for them (αὐτοῖς); whosoever's ( ἄν τινων) you (pl.) keep taking hold of (κρατῆτε, present active subjunctive), they have been taken hold of (κεκράτηνται, perfect passive indicative, they were taken hold of and continue to be taken hold of).”
20:23 ἄν τινων ἀφῆτε τὰς ἁμαρτίας ἀφέωνται αὐτοῖς ἄν τινων κρατῆτε κεκράτηνται

I believe we should understand this in the light of some of Jesus' other statements about forgiveness.
Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.....
Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

The disciples at this time received the gracious nature of the Holy Spirit from Jesus, since they had believed in their hearts He was risen from the dead and had confessed with their lips that Jesus is Lord. This grace enabled them to forgive one another and come into harmony and unity ready for Pentecost (Act 2:1), when the Holy Spirit would be released upon all flesh (Act 2:17) the Lord working through Him with the disciples, confirming the word of God with signs and wonders (Mar 16:20).

So, here in John 20, Jesus is giving the disciples the grace to let go of their grudges and resentment against one another. He is telling them that once you let go of someone's mark-missing, you can be assured that God has also forgiven that same mark-missing. But if you are holding on to your brother's or sister's shortcomings and not releasing them, you have taken upon yourself ownership of those same shortcomings in your own life, and you will be judged by God for them.

So, it is not about the apostles receiving a special apostolic declarative power to break sins off people, but it is about the Holy Spirit's grace at work in every believer, and every believer's responsibility to freely give the forgiveness they have freely received, in order to continue to freely receive forgiveness.
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There are two kinds of of forgiveness. One is mandatory, we must forgive the offence caused to us as we are forgiven of our offences by God. The other is forgiveness for the consequences of the offence. This is where we have authority to forgive or not.

Let me explain by an example. Your son has recently received his driver's licence. He has no car so you allow him to drive the family car. You warn him to obey all the road rules, or else he will not be allowed to drive the car again.

Typical young male decides to speed and gets a ticket. You take away his privilege of driving the family car. He complains, makes all kinds of promises, so you relent. And that is the second kind of forgiveness.

We must forgive all who offend us. We do not have to put up with bad behaviour. This can be an issue in church life too. The man in Corinth sleeping with his father's wife was forgiven. Then the church had to make a choice, to allow him back into fellowship or not. Paul advised them to allow him back.

It's a tragedy that so many pastors are caught up in wrong relationships. If they repent, they are forgiven. But do you let them continue as pastor? That is the decision of the elders. And that is the kind of forgiveness God gives us authority to grant or withhold.
 
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OLDBUTNEW said:
@beechan : OK; so do you believe that we non-Catholic Christians are NOT going to go to Heaven, unless we become Catholic?
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I see it is the Protestant saying Catholics are NOT going to heaven, more than the Catholics say Protestants not going to heaven. Catholics still call Protestants brothers, while many protestants called Catholics heretics and harlots.
 
beechan said:
I see it is the Protestant saying Catholics are NOT going to heaven, more than the Catholics say Protestants not going to heaven. Catholics still call Protestants brothers, while many protestants called Catholics heretics and harlots.
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@beechan : Great comment, brother! Well, apart from my mother's family all being Catholic, I've known a lot of Catholics over the years, and they're wonderful people! So I believe that Catholics are real Christians and so are going to Heaven!
 
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