Doctrine of Unconditional Election

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#221
#221
brightfame52 said:
Right its about individuals, God chose a multitude of individuals, unconditionally by Grace ! Technically it is Israel, Spiritual Israel the Body of Christ.
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Again,

Your wrong

God chose induviduals to salvation (eph)

God chose a nation of people to be his nation (OT and Romans 9 - 11)

You need to seperate the two.
 
J

Justified

Active member
#223
Jul 13, 2021
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#223
brightfame52 said:
I have showed verses a multitude of times. All the verses that speak on election is about Salvation, maybe for the exception of a couple of them.
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Give us a list of those verses that you purport to support your view. You have been shown many that do not support your view and ignore those. Your blanket statement holds no water, show us the verses.
 
F

FreeGrace2

Banned
#226
Jan 31, 2021
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#226
brightfame52 said:
No one existed before the creation of world when God chose a people in Christ by Grace. Its only conditioned on Gods Sovereign Will plus nothing.
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No, God's choice in eternity past was to elect (choose) ALL believers for service. He didn't need to have people in existence. Because He is omniscient.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#229
Nov 21, 2020
6,293
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#229
FreeGrace2 said:
No, God's choice in eternity past was to elect (choose) ALL believers for service. He didn't need to have people in existence. Because He is omniscient.
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No one existed before the foundation, God wasn't observing the actions of non existent entities !
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#232
May 23, 2012
13,006
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#232
brightfame52 said:
I dont need the words unconditionally election literally, when Gods word states clearly that election took place before the foundation of the world prior to anyone had physical existence to perform any conditions.
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Yes, you do. the term must be contextually found. If the concept of "Unconditional election" is being stated by you then you must provide in scripture that Concept. The truth is you have added the word "unconditional" to the word Election.

and have no scripture support for making the change.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#233
#233
brightfame52 said:
Im right because the scripture is right, guess we will see at the Judgment !
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Your interpretation of scripture is wrong

the fact you do not want to discuss the scriptures provided to you. well that just hurts you but good luck
 
R

rayzor

Banned
#234
Aug 20, 2021
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#234
brightfame52 said:
You lost me !
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Jesus is the foundation nothing was thought of or made without Jesus thinking about it then creating it.All things that are made by man for example had 2 thought of before being made.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#235
May 23, 2012
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#235
rayzor said:
Jesus is the foundation nothing was thought of or made without Jesus thinking about it then creating it.All things that are made by man for example had 2 thought of before being made.
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you mean all things made for man, not by man?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#236
#236
brightfame52 said:
I dont need to refute anything, nothing you stated changes the fact of unconditional election of people before the foundation.
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Your pride runs deep my friend

Why are you here?

Its obvious you do not wish to discuss the scripture.

You do need to refute things when they are given to you if your going to tell someone they are wrong.

I guess I will have to add you to my ignore list. Because your not here to discuss ther word.. Your here to push you view and attck those who disagree,

Your part of the problem with why people hate christians. Not the solution
 
F

FreeGrace2

Banned
#237
Jan 31, 2021
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#237
brightfame52 said:
I have showed verses a multitude of times. All the verses that speak on election is about Salvation, maybe for the exception of a couple of them.
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You've actually shown NONE.

But, give me the very best one. Meaning, the one that can't be misunderstood.
 
F

FreeGrace2

Banned
#238
Jan 31, 2021
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#238
brightfame52 said:
Sure its about Salvation, practically all election in the scripture is about Salvation !
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I'm still waiting for ANY verse that actually shows that.

In fact, every verse that addresses the PURPOSE of election shows that it is to service, not salvation.

John 6:70, 1 Cor 1:27,28, Eph 1:4, Isa 42:1

I gave you a list of all the examples of those who were elected by God. Didn't you read any of it? I even gave verses that prove their election was to service, including the Lord Jesus Christ!!
 
F

FreeGrace2

Banned
#239
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
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#239
brightfame52 said:
No one existed before the foundation, God wasn't observing the actions of non existent entities !
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So you don't believe in omniscience then, huh? God doesn't need to observe to know what's going to occur.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#240
Feb 12, 2009
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#240
eternally-gratefull said:
That is not the only way we can interpret that passage though

The world can be seen as everyone

Even in the passage, It states belief is required.

Remember, those who believe were in a condemned state BEFORE they believed.
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This is true about the word cosmos (world).


Paul's whole argument in Romans 1 thru 3 is about the condition of man.. Unregenerate who love their sin, and none seek after God. Both Jew and gentile. Then Paul gives the good new ''But Now the righteousness of God''

The word cosmos (world) can mean everyone- pay attention to what Paul says about this in regards to 'everyone' just before he gets to the 'But Now' in Rom 3:19. The cosmos can mean all unbelievers (1 Cor 4:9), it can mean the universe as a whole (Acts 17:24), it can mean the earth (John 13:1) It can mean all people except believers (John 15:8) etc etc etc.

This is why when we look at the usage of Cosmos (world) we can see it does not mean every single person cf. John 1:29. What does cosmos mean here.. I would say it means believers - Jew and gentile cf. 1 cor 4:9; Ephesians 2:14;

The main point is that.. Christ is given as a gift, and that is from God, and those who receive the gift are those who believe, and this is the purpose of the gift, that those who" believe will never perish but have everlasting life". The world here I would say means none other than all men of different stripes.. as Paul tells us Jew and gentile, Kings,Paupers, servants. we are all one in Christ.. Not every person but only those who believe they are the all and the meaning of cosmos here.

We can see were the word 'cosmos' (world is used of all unbelievers yet not Christians Rom 3:6. We know this as believers do not hate Christ.

Most don't like this, it doesn't seem fair (according to mans standards). Yet it has nothing to do with fairness it is all to do with justice.

Those God saves receives His saving grace, those he passes over receive Justice.

No matter what way we look at John 3:16, God's purpose is limited to those who believe. I agree with the following

“Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” Acts 2:38-39

and

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. " - John 6:37

Those the Father gives to the son will come to Christ in faith and persevere till the end.

Its a good debate, and I know you know this EG, but for other readers remember there is a unity among Christians whether you believe in unconditonal election or conditonal election and that unity is salvation by Grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone!
 
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