Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004
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In your "faithful" remark, you're referring to 2 Timothy 2:11-13
Could you please do an exegesis on these verses?
Thanks.
Fran
Could you please tell me WHEN the concept of once saved Always saved began?
Thanks.
Fran
By a man called Jesus who redeemed us with His own blood. In Him we have redemption the forgiveness of sins. He also said to "Repent and believe the gospel".
John 3:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
As I have said now for about 5 times. The term once saved and always saved and the fact of one losing salvation as in not being joined to the Lord anymore is not talked about in scripture. They always talk about life.
They talk about things that nullify the grace of God from operating in our lives and one of the very worst demonically inspired one is the Christ will leave you and forsake you if you get wrong thoughts in your mind - despite the fact that you have a new heart and are a new creation - with a new spirit created in righteousness and holiness. Born of incorruptible seed - the word of God Himself.
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I really need to go. This is REALLY the last post!
So you say OSAS is not spoken of in the bible. Gee. MAYBE BECAUSE IT'S FALSE???
Did all those posts up there mean nothing to you? They are all about HOLDING FIRM TO OUR FAITH and NOT LOSING IT.
Here are some more. Please post some stuff that says I'm saved and have eternal life forever EVEN IF I DON'T BELIEVE IN CHRIST. I hope you really read these verses. In some forums, they come up automatically...
John 15:1
John 15:5
Romans 11:17-21
Romans 11:22
1 Corinthians 9:27
1 Corinthians 10:12
Colossians 1:21-23
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 6:4-6 IT MEANS WHAT IT SAYS... IF THEY FALL AWAY...
Philippians 3:7-11
Philippians 3:12
2 Peter 1:5-9
2 Peter 1:10
2 Peter 2:20-21
Ezekiel 18:24
There are PLENTY more if you're interested. I doubt it though. All these verses speak to how one must HOLD ON, NOT FALL AWAY, IF, BUT, etc.
God is Grace but He is also Justice.
Those who DO NOT believe in Jesus, will NOT make it.
FAITH SAVES.
NO FAITH, NO SALVATION.
Fran
All believers believe in Christ in their hearts - as I said - they may get their minds all screwed up from false teaching like this demonic one that the Lord forsakes you and leaves you.
Of course all those that have not been born-again will not "make it" as you say.
None of those verses say a believer that has been saved by grace through faith ever goes to hell. They will not experience the life that can be ours in this earth if we do not hold onto the promises of God with patience and thus see them come to manifest in our lives.
Just look up in the Greek saved by grace in Eph. 2:8 and you will see that it is a done deal - in a completed state with has continuous results in the present . It is called the perfect tense in the Greek - there is no equal to it in English. When a Greek person heard that tense being used - they knew exactly what that meant.
Jesus used the perfect tense in "It is finished".
I suppose we could use our human reasoning and say "What if Jesus didn't really mean it was finished - maybe it is only half finished? Maybe He meant it is finished only if we help Him to save us?
Whenever we use our own human reasoning to try to take away the plain text - we will nullify the very grace of God needed to manifest His life in us.
Fran - I think this is a complete waste of time - you would have much better luck trying to convince me that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation then to try to convince me that Jesus did not speak the truth and that He would never leave us nor forsake us. That the Holy Spirit will be in us forever. I'm a believer. I have repented and I believe the gospel just like Jesus said to do in Mark 1:15.
It is with the heart that man believes and has been created in righteousness and holiness. We are joined as one spirit with the Lord. Isaiah said ' And He shall bring in everlasting righteousness". And again "In righteousness you will be established."
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True biblical belief is of the heart - not in the head or mind. God looks on the heart - man looks on the outward appearance.
Getting "saved" is simple.
Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
The process is simple too.
1) we hear the message of Christ - the gospel of our salvation in Him
2) we believed the message from our hearts
3) we were sealed with the Holy Spirit ( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, = 1) the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2) you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)
you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past.
Passive voice = the sealing was not done by us but by an outside force - the Holy Spirit Himself.
Getting "saved" is simple.
Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
The process is simple too.
1) we hear the message of Christ - the gospel of our salvation in Him
2) we believed the message from our hearts
3) we were sealed with the Holy Spirit ( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, = 1) the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2) you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)
you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past.
Passive voice = the sealing was not done by us but by an outside force - the Holy Spirit Himself.
You will notice this teacher leaves out conviction of sin, understanding our need through repentance,
confession, followed by faith in the cross for the forgiveness of sin, and the power to walk in
righteousness.
This is the logical extension of their belief sin and a lack of love is not the cause of peoples rebellion
against God.
So this problem does not need to be resolved by a conscious assent to our fallen state.
All that remains is "believing" in Jesus, which is just buying a ticket to heaven.
This is the talisman version of Christian faith and not scriptural.
I wonder how the whole law of Moses and conviction of sin, and resolution through faith
in God and sacrifices in the temple can be disguarded so easily.
Only because the hatred against any form of legalism is so deep in them, that they
reject even that which God instituted.
Hi PeterJens
The bible is full of words telling us to keep the faith. If we have to keep the faith, that means the faith could be lost!
This seems so simple to me that it should not require any debating. However, debate we do.
Could you please tell me what "talisman" version of Christian faith is?
You've used this word before and I don't understand what you mean.
In any case, teaching that one CANNOT lose salvation is very Dangerous indeed.
The early theologians, or Fathers of the Church, BEGGED to follow the teachings of Christ.
Today, I read on these threads that they are frowned upon. The ones who KEPT CHRISTIANITY going for the first few hundred years.
Some have created their own version of Christianity, be it this Talisman, or whatever.
Chistianity should be what CHRIST said it should be, not Calvin or anyone else.
Fran
No one is frowning upon the early believers and have said that it is imperative to walk in faith in order to experience God's quality of life while on this earth. Losing one's faith for obtaining peace or any other promise in God in a situation does not equate to going to hell now.
Please do not put into other's mouth's what was not said just because they may disagree with an assumption made by some.
If any one in the past says that sons of God go to hell - they are wrong and how do you think the church went through the dark ages to begin with? People listened to the foolishness of their "theologians" of their time instead of believing the scriptures.
Not all the things everyone said in the past was wrong nor right too. We are growing in our knowledge of the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Christ is all in all and should be for all of us which is why we need to be preaching the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. We have died and our life is hidden with Christ in God.
We need to be preaching the gospel of the love and grace of God in Christ so that we will have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him.
Please do not put into other's mouth's what was not said just because they may disagree with an assumption made by some.
If any one in the past says that sons of God go to hell - they are wrong and how do you think the church went through the dark ages to begin with? People listened to the foolishness of their "theologians" of their time instead of believing the scriptures.
Not all the things everyone said in the past was wrong nor right too. We are growing in our knowledge of the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Christ is all in all and should be for all of us which is why we need to be preaching the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. We have died and our life is hidden with Christ in God.
We need to be preaching the gospel of the love and grace of God in Christ so that we will have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him.
Hi Fran,
I used the word Talisman because for me it summarised what some are doing.
Their behaviour is just repentance and confession of sin are ignored, belief
in Christ is held as a way of being forgiven, without an open heart or being washed
and cleansed within, and they claim to be sealed by the Holy Spirit into eternity with
Christ without first bowing before the cross in sorrow and grief.
Now to me this is all junk, superficial superstition. One member once wondered could
Christ have died in some other place than earth etc. He wondered why with the court
setting of justice why Christ had to come as he did. It has convinced me these people
are not following our faith or spiritual experience, which is fine, except they claim the
same words and authority of scripture. They would also disown us, and call us anti-Christ
and apostate, which is an unusual experience.
So I used the word Talisman, an external claim to salvation without entering the Kingdom.
It has amazed me after over a year of interaction with them, how hard hearted they are,
and how dismissive of serious issues both in life and scripture they are ignoring.
I admire your perseverance, and faithfullness, sister, so Amen and God bless, Peter
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eternally-gratefull
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?? How can you throw away a gift, You can try to hide it, but you can not destroy it. It is still yours. What you do with it, that is up to you, but it is still yours.
Well I could say a number of things regarding the wisdom of such a statement but it is presented wholly without any support from the scriptures so that is sufficient in and of itself.
Why would one desire to throw away their salvation? A creature with the new nature created by Christ could never even consider such a contradiction of reason and logic.
Why would Jesus be so capricious as to offer eternal life only to allow it to be lost? We seem to forget that we are bought with a price and Jesus now has deed to our life.
1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.
To propose such as this, losing salvation, is to shame the very Lord that has bought them.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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