I personally believe that believers joined as one spirit with the Lord and that become new creation in Christ - that they some how become "un-born again" and become un-joined with the Lord - is the #1 worse doctrine that has ever been perpetrated on the body of Christ.
This false doctrine has caused more harm to immature believers than any other doctrine.
It causes them to trust in themselves - in what they can do to make themselves saved. It is a grace-killer. We live by faith in what grace has provided in Christ. The whole Christian life from start to finish is based on what Christ has already done by His grace and it is accessed by faith. The hearing of Christ brings faith. Rom. 10:17
True faith is of the heart and not in the mind of man. It is with the heart that man believes. We can get screwy in our thinking because of circumstances and false teachings.
Take the teaching where God kills your little children because you somehow did something wrong. That would cause your emotions and mind to become a mess and not trust God from an emotional and mind frame point of view - yet your heart - the inner man in Christ is still in righteousness and holiness because it is joined as one to the Lord.
It brings dis-trust to the Lord who said "I will never leave you nor forsake you." It makes Jesus a liar when He said " The Holy Spirit with be with you and in you forever". John 14:16
How can you trust someone when they say one thing but "actually mean something totally different?" You can't. The doctrine of losing salvation as in the Lord will be separated from you undermines the human being's ability to trust in the Lord at a heart and emotional level.
I have a medical background and have heard psychiatrists talk about a lot of people in asylums and with mental disorders are from religious Christian backgrounds where they feel they have done some thing and the Lord has forsaken them.
The preaching and teaching of the grace and love of God is exactly what is needed to grow up in Christ so that the situations of life don't wreck our lives here on earth. Jesus and the apostles always talked about "life" and not losing one's salvation as in not being with the Lord.
They had a lot to say about the deeds of the body here on earth and what destruction they can bring in this life as well - these are great admonishments for us and these warnings are a blessing to us.
But let's not water down the gospel because of fear of mis-use. The gospel is the power of God for salvation. We need to hear the gospel every day.
I could not disagree with you more regarding your statement that loss of eternal security is a FALSE doctrine that causes immature believers harm.
I like how PeterJens worded it in post no. 325.
"Salvation is a WALK, not an ARRIVING"
I will be saved for eternity if my heart still resides in Jesus at the end of my life. And ONLY if it is. Jesus made this clear.
OSAS is the FALSE teaching. This teaching DID NOT EXIST in the Church until the Birth of John Calvin.
I've posted many times what the early Fathers taught about eternal salvation. THEY are the ones that were closest to Jesus.
I'll post some again here:
Such is the subject of this post. It seems that in regards to the idea that once someone “believes unto salvation” that there is no chance they will not continue in that state to the end, our Father’s protest.
“We ought therefore, brethren, carefully to inquire concerning our salvation. Otherwise, the wicked one, having made his entrance by deceit, may hurl us forth from our life.” ~ Barnabas (c. 70-130)
“For the Lord has sworn by His glory, in regard to His elect, that if any one of them sin after a certain day which has been fixed, he will no be saved. For the repentance of the righteous has limits. Filled up are the days of repentance to all the saints. But to the unbeliever, repentance will be possible even to the last day… For the Lord has sworn by His Son, that those who denied their Lord have abandoned their life to despair.” ~ Hermas (c. 150)
“I hold further, that those of you who have confessed and known this man to be Christ, yet who have gone back for some reason to the legal dispensation [i.e. the Mosaic Law], and have denied that this man is Christ, and have not repented before death – you will by no means be saved.” ~ Justin Martyr (c. 160)
“Those who do not obey Him, being disinherited by Him, have ceased to be His sons.” ~ Irenaeus (c. 180)
“God had foreseen… that faith – even after baptism – would be endangered. He saw that most persons – after obtaining salvation – would be lost again, by soiling the wedding dress, by failing to provide oil for their torches.” ~ Tertullian (c. 213)
“Certain ones of those [heretics] who hold different opinions misuse these passages. They essentially destroy free will be introducing ruined natures incapable of salvation and by introducing others as being saved in such a way that they cannot be lost.” ~ Origen (c. 225)
“Being a believing man, if you seek to live as the Gentiles do, the joys of the world remove you from the grace of Christ.” ~ Commodianus (c. 240)
“Let us press onward and labor, watching with our whole heart. Let us be steadfast with all endurance; let us keep the Lord’s commandments. Thereby, when that day of anger and vengeance comes, we may not be punished with the ungodly and the sinners. Rather, we may be honored with the righteous and with those who fear God.” ~ Cyprian (c. 250)
“As to one who again denies Christ, no special previous standing can be effective to him for salvation. For anyone of us will hold it necessary that whatever is the last thing to be found in a man in this respect, that is where he will be judged. All of those things that he has previously done are wiped away and obliterated.” ~ Treatise on Re-Baptism (c. 257)
“He put a seal upon him, for it is concealed as to who belong to the side of the devil and who to the side of Christ. For we do not know out of those who seem to stand whether they will fall or not. And of those who are down, it is uncertain whether they might rise.” ~ Victorinus (c. 280)
Et cetera, et cetera…
While they may disagree with one another on this point or that point, the one consistent theme which they seem to agree on is that even “after obtaining salvation” – as Tertullian puts it – one may be “disinherited by Him” (to quote Irenaeus) if they cease to be faithful (which is inextricably tied up to obedience according to Hebrews 4).
And by the way, I find Origen’s thoughts to be of particular interest. Apparently during the first few centuries of the Church – that is, prior to Augustine – it was the heretics who promised salvation “in such a way that they cannot be lost.”
No one is saying to trust in ones self. If we could save ourselves, why would Jesus have had to die? Everyone knows that we are in need of atonement.
It's VERY Dangerous to teach a new believer that he can never lose his salvation. IOW, according to your belief, a person could accept Jesus into his heart at the age of 20. Then at 35 decide that it's all a lot of lies, deny God and Jesus, no longer accept Jesus' sacrifice as expiation of sins, do whatever he wants to, and still be saved?
This sounds like a much more Dangerous concept to me than WARNING someone that Jesus HIMSELF warned against falling away, as did Paul and all the N.T. Writers.
There are many verses that attest to this, but when the believers of eternal security look for verses it's Always necessary to twist scripture to get it to mean what they would want.
You say it is with the heart that man believes unto salvation.
What if I stop believing?
I don't understand your remark about God Killing children. It sounds sick to me. Jesus was asked for whose sin was the man blind, his or his parents. Jesus said neither but to glorify God, to show what God could do. No one was to blame.
Your right that Jesus said "I will never leave you nor forsake you". HE NEVER WILL. However, WE could leave HIM.
Jesus said "whoever denies me before men, I will also deny him before My Father." Mathew 10:33
It doesn't matter WHEN we deny Jesus, it just matter that we DO deny Him. Before or After being born again, our action is the same and His action will be the same. God does not lie.
My believing in loss of salvation DOES NOT undermine my trust in the Lord. It makes me trust Him MORE. It makes me understand even more how much I really need Him.
The psychological problems you're speaking about are found a lot in the Catholic Church. The condition is called
scrupulosity. People who constantly worry about having sinned and not being forgiven. This is carried over to other parts of their lives. They fail to understand how much God loves them and constantly go to confession. THEY would never believe in OSAS! They can't even reason correctly!
So, yes. Let's preach Grace and the love of God for us and our love for Him.
Let's also not put Others in danger. The bible is full of warnings.
John 15:1 " I am the true vine and My Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch that does not bear fruit."
John 15:5 "IF ANYONE does NOT REMAIN in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers, such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned"
Romans 11:17-21 New International Version (NIV)
17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20
Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you,
provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Colossians 1:21-23 New International Version (NIV)
21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[a] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23
if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
There are so many warnings both from Jesus and the Writers of the N.T. that it would take many posts to list them all.
I believe it would behoove all of us to pay heed to their warnings.
Fran
