For those who believe in false conversions even when people return...

[atwhatcost]

Nevermind, I will put all who cant produce the scriptures to their doctrines on ignore

Anyone left not ignored?

 

[Elin]

God alone is omnipotent. The heart of the next part is it FAITH that is the gift,or is it God's grace RECEIVED BY FAITH that is the gift?

The gift in Eph 2:8-9 is salvation.

 

[atwhatcost]

I'm not clear on what exactly you are getting at. Are you saying you were saved and backslid or that when you reverted to sinning again that you didn't give up salvation?

I know I was saved. Some folks were saving someone else wasn't saved when he took the deep dive away from God after he was saved. They said he was "falsely converted" or "not enlightened." I'm trying to figure out what they mean by those things, since I know I was saved, and then did really stupid, sinful things. I don't see what a false conversion is, or, what one is when the person returns. (If they never come back and then they die, I get that one, but not if they come back.) It just doesn't make sense to me. (And, so, I ask. lol)

 

[Elin]

A believer (who was once saved) can backslide into sin (and be in an unsaved state) to then being renewed back to the faith again (to a saved state again).

That's going from rebirth, back to unbirth, and back to re-rebirth.

No, the NT does not teach that.

The back slider is just that--slidden back, not fallen fatally.

Not only does the Prodigal Son teach this, but James 5:19-21 teaches this, as well.

In the Parable of the Prodigal Son, the father said that his son was dead and was alive again two times. This is obviously speaking in spiritual terms. For when did Jesus not speak in spiritual terms when he was preaching?

Yes, that is the condition of all the elect, who are all lost and dead sinners until they are "found" and made alive again, including the Gentiles, to which the Pharisees objected, thinking themselves never lost, dead, found and made alive again.

 

[atwhatcost]

I see the parable to be about the attitude of the Pharisees (Lk 15:28-29) at the inclusion of the Gentiles in the sons of God (Lk 15:30-31).

Ah, interesting. I never thought Gentiles at all. (Might be because I am one, so don't think deeply on it. lol)

 

[SarahM777]

The gift in Eph 2:8-9 is salvation.[/COLOR]

UMM Elin

But isn't God's grace received by faith,salvation?

 

[Elin]

​His concept is new to me, but I don't see him bringing up the Holy Spirit in what he said. As for which Bible? Do you think the verses he gave aren't in yours? That was Calvin's idea to pull James out of the Bible. It didn't work. It's still there.

Or was it Luther's idea?

 

[atwhatcost]

One, the Bible mentions that we are to obey the Law of Christ and that we are to love God and to love our neighbors. For even Paul said, shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul's answer to that question was.... "God forbid." Meaning, you can't continue in sin. Two, the Bible talks about in several places about if you sin, you are separated from God. I mean, just look at Adam and Eve. They were in a right relationship with God and sin had separated that relationship.

Here is a conditional promise. Can you tell me what the condition is?

Romans 11:20-22
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shall be cut off.

Hebrews 10:26, 38
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
38 Now the just shall live by faith: butif any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Bad form! (A Captain Hook term. lol)

Paul did say, "God forbid," but that's in the middle of a whole treatise on why God and why us in relationship to God. Without the former and then the later, it doesn't cover the whole concept. God really did forbid and did something about all of it at the same time.

To cut it out is something like saying, "America's First Amendment says, "Congress shall make no law...of religion.'" It does say that, but it says much more than that and some really important words are missing.

 

[Elin]

UMM Elin

But isn't God's grace received by faith,salvation?

No, my friend, God's gift of grace is the cause of faith (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3) and salvation (Eph 2:8-9).

 

[atwhatcost]

There is a popular song in Christianity today. It basically says Jesus is a friend of sinners. However, that is not true. Jesus is a friend of those who repented of their sins. So when you say Jesus had many prostitute friends, that would not be a true statement. Yes, some of them might have used to have been prostitutes in their old life, but they were still not a practicing prostitute when they met Jesus, though. Do God's people struggle with sin? Yes, but they do not remain as sinners as a way of life, though. Besides Judas who later fell by his trangression, the disciples did not live immoral lives. Jesus did not hang out with people who were immoral and think they were saved if they continued to sin. For Jesus told the woman who was caught in the act of adultery to sin no more. Does that sound like Jesus approves of people sinning? No. Jesus said he was amongst them because he was to be physician. A person who is a physician is one who heals people. Heals them of what? Sin. For the Scriptures say Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil.

John Newton was saved by God when he was 23 years old. At the time he was saved, he was at the bottom of his slave ship being tossed around so badly he was sure he would die. He wrote the first verse of Amazing Grace while waiting for that ship to be repaired.

He kept trading slaves for almost a decade. Then God got him to study more of the word. He wasn't unsaved because he kept running slaves. It takes a while for salvation to get through to different parts of our lives.

He and Cowper finished that song decades later.

 

[atwhatcost]

It is a story about wasting your inheritance by riotious living.....it is not about losing salvation.....he wa a SON through the whole process, was alive when percieved as dead by his lifstyle and is received as a son with a ring and a robe.....for those who like to make this about losing salvation to support their false gospel.....tragic ignorance and a religious twist at best!

And this is what military service does to a person. Makes them succinct in getting to the point! Touche! Thanks.

 

[atwhatcost]

He was not implying that at all. Offering milk and cookies is a euphemism from the Speak Your Mind thread. It means to 'chill out'.

Ohhhh! Thanks for that!

And, nuts! Does that mean I should stop waiting for the cookies in my mail? They looked good!

 

[atwhatcost]

There are four theories of salvation (restrictive, wider hope, universal, unitarian),

three theories of the security of the believer (eternal security, continued faith, faith & works),

two theories of the destiny of the saved (soul present with the lord, soul sleep)

and three theories of the destiny of the lost (conscious everlasting punishment,

temporary purgatory, total annihilation).

You still think I'm smarter than I am. Cut that out! lol

So, can you give quick definitions of the four salvation theories? I think that's what I'm missing.

 

[atwhatcost]

I am not sure what is in that document, but what scares me is if you will teach them about Once Saved Always Saved or that future sin is forgiven them. Are you teaching them that now?

Once saved always saved is true. Our problem is we don't know who is really saved, including us, until we/they endure. God saves/saved every single person he always knew he'd save. He never gave us the list for who they are.

 

[atwhatcost]

no one stops sinning

two different topics, salvation and sanctification

We do too stop sinning. Glorification.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Anyone left not ignored?

Sure there are, because there are more who use the scriptures on both side of things, depending on where each stands. Whether they do so rightly or wrongly would remain to be seen (or left to be shown). I can agree with both sides (at different times) without feeling threatened which is not always the case between the two (which must resort to their own words) and drone on and one there. And most will never turn on their own side even if they know they had lied, because if they can pull it off (and save face) its really just one for the team (so to speak). Theres only a few (if that) in each who would dare raise their voices contrary to the team (even if something was in error) which is why I avoid locking in with either side because I believe their corrupt for doing that. I would rather pick over (between them) what is good.

Theres different kinds of corrupting of the scriptures but the more honest of them can at least cough one up in their dishonest attempt to save face rather then doing the jig for pages.

Its the ones who will seek to save their own face at the cost of truth which dont even deserve an ear.

But it is still all good that such things are made manifest, especially if only if for the lurkers sake (who are the larger part) who should flee when they start seeing that as acceptable.

 

[atwhatcost]

I was asking a question so as to what you believe and wanted to confirm it before making an assumption. Now, I know. By your statement here, it sounds to me like you believe that Jesus did not require people to stop sinning to have a right standing with God. I just wanted to make sure you do believe that. Because to me..... such a teaching is pure evil because Jesus would be condoning people's sins if he were to do so.



Then you have not either read or you forgotten about how Jesus was angry (and offended) at the Pharisee's sin of hypocrisy then.



Yes, I realize that we can go to a family event or go to an unbelieving friends house to witness to them. But just to hang out with them to enjoy ourselves is not what God calls us to do. We are amongst them to witness to them. There is no other reason. We are bought and paid for with a price and we are not our own.

To all the people who kept saying something about ignoring and to all the people who got frustrated/annoyed by Jason. Please note. Page 6! Now I get it. I've seen politicians speak plainer than this, and more honest too. I have a headache.

(Can I have those milk and cookies now? )

 

[atwhatcost]

Oh, that topic is easy !

KJV Holy Bible

KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

KJV That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.

KJV For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;
and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

KJV For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Show off! lol (j/k)

 

[psychomom]

(Can I have those milk and cookies now? )

Lynn, you are welcome to join us in the Speak Your Mind thread.

cookies for everyone there.

(ps--sorry if i mucked up your thread. )

 

[atwhatcost]

The Bible is not a book whereby you can quote only a few selected verses that you prefer seeing. There are many verses even by Paul himself that refute OSAS.

Really? Really really? Scroll up. I just showed you "Bad Form" when that's exactly what you did! You even just quoted two words out of complete context.

Never mind.

I really need that milk and cookies now.