If Women Can't Have Authority Over Men in the Church, Why Are They Expected to Teach in School?

[cv5]

Well, let's just throw the baby out with the bathwater while needlessly spreading fear and suspicion.

There isn't any passage of Scripture that forbids women from acting as pastors.

1 Tim 2:12
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

1 Cor 14:33 etc
As in all the congregations of the saints, women are to be silent in the churches. They are not permitted to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they wish to inquire about something, they are to ask their own husbands at home; for it is dishonorable for a woman to speak in the church.

Please tell us how it could possibly be that a woman can function as a silent pastor?
IMO women pastors can only hold office in the liberal (disobedient) Churches. Furthermore, any church with a woman pastor tends to go downhill....and rapidly.

 

[Dino246]

1 Tim 2:12
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

1 Cor 14:33 etc
As in all the congregations of the saints, women are to be silent in the churches. They are not permitted to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they wish to inquire about something, they are to ask their own husbands at home; for it is dishonorable for a woman to speak in the church.

Please tell us how it could possibly be that a woman can function as a silent pastor?
IMO women pastors can only hold office in the liberal (disobedient) Churches. Furthermore, any church with a woman pastor tends to go downhill....and rapidly.

Where in Scripture is it stated that women may not 'pastor' women?
Where in Scripture is it stated that pastoring is only done in the corporate gathering?
Which passage in the Law requires women to be in submission and/or silent?
How is it that in the same letter where Paul encourages women to pray and prophesy (chapter 11) he is now demanding that they be silent?

 

[cv5]

Where in Scripture is it stated that women may not 'pastor' women?
Where in Scripture is it stated that pastoring is only done in the corporate gathering?
Which passage in the Law requires women to be in submission and/or silent?
How is it that in the same letter where Paul encourages women to pray and prophesy (chapter 11) he is now demanding that they be silent?

Are you subverting the topic?
I honestly do not believe a woman can serve in the office of pastor even to other women. IMO no woman can lead a duly constituted body of believers.

 

[cv5]

Are you subverting the topic?
I honestly do not believe a woman can serve in the office of pastor even to other women. IMO no woman can lead a duly constituted body of believers.

Qualifier: assembly including grown men

 

[Dino246]

Are you subverting the topic?
I honestly do not believe a woman can serve in the office of pastor even to other women. IMO no woman can lead a duly constituted body of believers.

The thread topic is this: "If Women Can't Have Authority Over Men in the Church, Why Are They Expected to Teach in School?"

How can questions directly related to that topic be considered "subverting" it? That's beyond ridiculous.

As to your honest belief, it isn't based on Scripture, and your opinion, while interesting, has no doctrinal merit.

 

[Dino246]

Qualifier: assembly including grown men

Nowhere does Scripture define the role of a pastor as the leader of an assembly.

 

[cv5]

The thread topic is this: "If Women Can't Have Authority Over Men in the Church, Why Are They Expected to Teach in School?"

How can questions directly related to that topic be considered "subverting" it? That's beyond ridiculous.

As to your honest belief, it isn't based on Scripture, and your opinion, while interesting, has no doctrinal merit.

Subverting the topic of our conversation. And Pauls declarations ARE doctrine.

 

[tourist]

1 Tim 2:12
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

1 Cor 14:33 etc
As in all the congregations of the saints, women are to be silent in the churches. They are not permitted to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they wish to inquire about something, they are to ask their own husbands at home; for it is dishonorable for a woman to speak in the church.

Please tell us how it could possibly be that a woman can function as a silent pastor?
IMO women pastors can only hold office in the liberal (disobedient) Churches. Furthermore, any church with a woman pastor tends to go downhill....and rapidly.

The key word in 1Tim 2:12 is 'I'. It does not say that God suffers not a woman to teach but rather is stating Paul's particular point of view. As with a lot of Paul's writing it appears that he offering his learned opinion rather that firmly stating what God does or does not allow. The thing about 1Cor 14:33, not all women have a husband to inquire about matters whether they are home or otherwise. Paul appears to be a bit of a chauvinist.

 

[cv5]

Nowhere does Scripture define the role of a pastor as the leader of an assembly.

A pastor is a shepherd as translated from the latin term. A shepherd leads the flock to pasture and water and defends them. A Pastor is therefore a leader though ultimately a servant to his flock and to the Lord.

Where these liberal notions come from is beyond me. Paul says what he means and means what he says.

 

[azamzimtoti]

The key word in 1Tim 2:12 is 'I'. It does not say that God suffers not a woman to teach but rather is stating Paul's particular point of view. As with a lot of Paul's writing it appears that he offering his learned opinion rather that firmly stating what God does or does not allow. The thing about 1Cor 14:33, not all women have a husband to inquire about matters whether they are home or otherwise. Paul appears to be a bit of a chauvinist.

And nobody knows which law he's speaking of.

"They are not permitted to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says"

 

[Dino246]

A pastor is a shepherd as translated from the latin term. A shepherd leads the flock to pasture and water and defends them. A Pastor is therefore a leader though ultimately a servant to his flock and to the Lord.

Yes, a shepherd leads the flock to water and pasture. The shepherd also protects and cares for each member, attending to them individually. None of this requires a formal leadership position. Nor is it stated as such in Scripture. What you are arguing is a Christian-culture definition of 'pastor', not a scriptural definition.

Where these liberal notions come from is beyond me. Paul says what he means and means what he says.

Your insults only reflect on you. The problem isn't with what Paul said, but with two thousand years of cultural and language change, centuries of enforced male leadership in most areas of western society, and inadequate bias-confirming "study".

 

[Dino246]

Subverting the topic of our conversation. And Pauls declarations ARE doctrine.

Since when were you appointed to determine the topic of our conversation? Get off your high horse.

 

[garee]

The key word in 1Tim 2:12 is 'I'. It does not say that God suffers not a woman to teach but rather is stating Paul's particular point of view. As with a lot of Paul's writing it appears that he offering his learned opinion rather that firmly stating what God does or does not allow. The thing about 1Cor 14:33, not all women have a husband to inquire about matters whether they are home or otherwise. Paul appears to be a bit of a chauvinist.

The bottom line is what kind of teaching? Do we take it for granted that its the gospel and men are better teachers??? No way...

It cannot represent teaching the gospel or declaring the word of God. The time of reformation had come. Men and woman could now worship and perform the new ceremonial laws together previously separated by a high wall a pagan design . .It caused a problem just like when woman became more involved in the work market in the 60s and up....

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: Acts 2:17

The scripture is clear in that way and informs us we need no man or woman to teach .We preach the word or plant the seed he causes the growth if any. Growth does not depend on the gender that plants the seed or waters it.

The teaching would seem to be more relationship men and woman family affairs.... not the gospel .In that case of relationship teaching a woman should ask her husband and home and not other husbands in the assembling together. Same with men have a relationship problem ask your wife's at Home .In that way they together can concentrate on working together to perform the ceremonies as a representative glory to show the world and angels that long to look into salvation . As order in the temporal house of God..the head (Christ ) has spoken

 

[tourist]

And nobody knows which law he's speaking of.

"They are not permitted to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says"

I have been led to believe that we are no longer under the law.

 

[cv5]

Yes, a shepherd leads the flock to water and pasture. The shepherd also protects and cares for each member, attending to them individually. None of this requires a formal leadership position. Nor is it stated as such in Scripture. What you are arguing is a Christian-culture definition of 'pastor', not a scriptural definition.


Your insults only reflect on you. The problem isn't with what Paul said, but with two thousand years of cultural and language change, centuries of enforced male leadership in most areas of western society, and inadequate bias-confirming "study".

Im not insulted. Paul may be. You and he can settle your differences when the opportunity arises.

As to your blather about culture....it is utterly irrelevant.

Paul issued stark commands. Succinct. Non-arbitrary. Clear. Concise. Not open to the whims of cultural degridation or whimsy.

There are no positions in a Church congregation where women can have authority over men in terms of Church authority. Ever. Period.

 

[cv5]

Since when were you appointed to determine the topic of our conversation? Get off your high horse.

You and I were engaged in a topic of conversation. Get off your high horse and quit thinking you are calling the shots.

BTW....no women pastors. Ever.

 

[Dino246]

As to your blather about culture....it is utterly irrelevant.

Perhaps you don't understand the importance of context.

Paul issued stark commands. Succinct. Non-arbitrary. Clear. Concise. Not open to the whims of cultural degridation or whimsy.

Since you are so confident of the rightness of your position, answer the questions I posted in post 442.

 

[cv5]

Perhaps you don't understand the importance of context.


Since you are so confident of the rightness of your position, answer the questions I posted in post 442.

1 Cor 14:35

"If they wish to inquire about something, they are to ask their own husbands at home; for it is dishonorable for a woman to speak in the church."

So you assert that this is no longer required in this day and age? In the new liberal Church? Where commandments and persons do what is right in their own eyes?

 

[cv5]

Perhaps you don't understand the importance of context.


Since you are so confident of the rightness of your position, answer the questions I posted in post 442.

The precedent has been set forth. Whether you choose to follow after the example of the patriarchs is a decision for you to make.

Philippians 3:17
"Join one another in following my example, brothers, and carefully observe those who walk according to the pattern we set for you."

 

[Dino246]

1 Cor 14:35

"If they wish to inquire about something, they are to ask their own husbands at home; for it is dishonorable for a woman to speak in the church."

So you assert that this is no longer required in this day and age? In the new liberal Church? Where commandments and persons do what is right in their own eyes?

I'm not going to answer your questions before you answer mine.