A
Abiding
Guest
ZONE
??
for 500 pts?
Dear i know your hand was raised, but i cant call on you every single time
I think its about time someone else in the class starts to get involved.
-
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Dear i know your hand was raised, but i cant call on you every single time
I think its about time someone else in the class starts to get involved.
A
Abiding
Guest
But who can stop a pupil that shows herself approved.
The prize this week goes to the first to get 2000 points.
Good job zone!
The prize this week goes to the first to get 2000 points.
Good job zone!
A
Abiding
Guest
A
Abiding
Guest
C
crisico
Guest
Revelation 18 talks of a country the Bible calls “Babylon” that is destroyed by fire in “one hour” and plagued with “death, mourning and famine”. Revelation 18:8
Could this “Babylon” be the USA? Does it fit?
Revelation 18 describes the following about the Babylon mentioned:
1. It is a literal place, with lots of wealth and products to sell. Rev. 18:12-13
2. It is a wealthy country that even sells its money (gold & silver). Rev. 18:11-12
3. It is a country that deceives all other countries. Rev. 18:23
4. It spreads its sexual immorality to other countries. Rev. 18:3
5. It lives in luxury. Rev. 18:7
6. It helps others get rich. Rev. 18:19, Rev. 18:3
7. It is ‘married’ to another country. Rev. 18:7
8. It is suddenly and utterly destroyed by fire. Rev. 18:8, Rev. 18:9-10, Rev. 18:17-18
9. It is responsible for many deaths. Rev. 18:24
Does the USA fit? Let’s go down the list one at a time.
It is a literal place with lots of wealth and products to sell. Rev. 18:12-13
Unlike the desert city of Babylon, Iraq, (map) which hasn’t sold much of anything, the USA has been a major producer. Until recently, its products were sold all over the world.
It is a wealthy country that even sells its money. Rev. 18:11-12, Rev. 18:3
The USA’s paper “Dollar” has been the world’s currency since the end of World War 2. Global trade is mostly done in “dollars”. Until recently, countries have bought lots of “dollars”. China owns about a trillion of them. LINK (That is changing. Satan’s new gold backed currency is fast approaching.)
It is a country that deceives all other countries. Rev. 18:23
Most in the USA think of ourselves as the ‘good guys’. After all, the USA is for “Liberty and Justice for all!”, right?
Maybe not. Let’s review USA history:
1. The early American Indians received little “liberty and justice”. LINK
2. So did lots of folks with dark skin. LINK
3. The Southerners learned of USA liberty when they chose to constitutionally withdraw from the Union because of unfair taxation. LINK The “Civil War” wasn’t mainly about slavery. LINK
4. In the early 1900’s Germany was becoming a world power to rival Great Britain and the USA. Two “great” wars beat them back down. LINK
5. The Korean War was all about global (United Nations) dominance. LINK
6. So was the Vietnam disaster. LINK
7. Iraq, Afghanistan, perhaps soon Pakistan and all of these Middle East “uprisings” are about money and control by the global banking elite. LINK
It spreads its sexual immorality to other countries. Rev. 18:3
Rather obvious. One word: “Hollywood”. America has the largest pornography business in the world
It lives in luxury. Rev. 18:7
The USA has been a very wealthy country indeed!
It is now experiencing increasing poverty as criminal bankers foreclose on the planet. For a heartbreaking example here is a link to a 60 Minutes piece about banker foreclosure fraud. LINK
It helps others get rich. Rev. 18:19, Rev. 18:3
Examples of this abound. One of the most obvious is the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. King Abdullah’s oil fields were not developed by the Bedouin, but by Rockefeller’s Exxon Mobile and Rothschild’s Royal Dutch Shell.
It is a country that is tied to another country. Rev. 18:7
The USA is tied to England. 1776 was a family squabble. Just follow the money:
1. The world’s “dollar” monetary system is controlled by the New York Federal Reserve Bank. LINK
2. The Federal Reserve is privately owned by global bankers with names like Rothschild, and others. LINK
3. Rothschild also controls the Bank of England. LINK (Bank of International Settlements, International Monetary Fund, World Bank, etc.)
Ergo, the USA is, economically speaking, England’s “Queen”; and not a “widow”. Rev. 18:7
It is suddenly and utterly destroyed by fire. Rev. 18:8, Rev. 18:9-10, Rev. 18:17-18
Obviously this has not happened yet. How could it?
One possible answer: Yellowstone. It is one of the world’s greatest calderas; a cauldron into the belly of the earth that is capable of producing a monster volcano. LINK
It could cause the whole of North America to be covered by a devastating cloud of ash.
It’s been discovered that earthquakes, 2000 miles away, off the North West coast, are linked to geyser increases in Yellowstone! LINK
It is a country responsible for many deaths. Rev. 18:24
This subject is horrible to contemplate. Examples: Hiroshima LINK, Agent Orange LINK. War’s cost in misery and death is incalculable.
True statement: Wars are deliberately planned by Satan and his global rulers for profit and control, always leading us closer to his coming world government.
Example A) Here is the real reason why The USA is currently leading the charge in the Middle East. LINK
Example B) The USA government finally admitted the Vietnam War began with a lie. Vid LINK
Example C) Here is obvious evidence that the endless, so called “War on Terror” sadly began by using professional demolition experts on 911. LINK Hundreds of thousands of folks have been hurt or killed ever since.
Other countries are forced to get into debt and trade in USA paper “dollars” or else! If you don’t want to participate in the “dollar” denominated banking system you can find yourself at the wrong end of a very big gun. (Video LINK: Economic Hit Man.)
The USA has lots of guns. The USA Military is currently stationed in 150 of the 194 countries of the world. LINK & LINK
Could this “Babylon” be the USA? Does it fit?
Revelation 18 describes the following about the Babylon mentioned:
1. It is a literal place, with lots of wealth and products to sell. Rev. 18:12-13
2. It is a wealthy country that even sells its money (gold & silver). Rev. 18:11-12
3. It is a country that deceives all other countries. Rev. 18:23
4. It spreads its sexual immorality to other countries. Rev. 18:3
5. It lives in luxury. Rev. 18:7
6. It helps others get rich. Rev. 18:19, Rev. 18:3
7. It is ‘married’ to another country. Rev. 18:7
8. It is suddenly and utterly destroyed by fire. Rev. 18:8, Rev. 18:9-10, Rev. 18:17-18
9. It is responsible for many deaths. Rev. 18:24
Does the USA fit? Let’s go down the list one at a time.
It is a literal place with lots of wealth and products to sell. Rev. 18:12-13
Unlike the desert city of Babylon, Iraq, (map) which hasn’t sold much of anything, the USA has been a major producer. Until recently, its products were sold all over the world.
It is a wealthy country that even sells its money. Rev. 18:11-12, Rev. 18:3
The USA’s paper “Dollar” has been the world’s currency since the end of World War 2. Global trade is mostly done in “dollars”. Until recently, countries have bought lots of “dollars”. China owns about a trillion of them. LINK (That is changing. Satan’s new gold backed currency is fast approaching.)
It is a country that deceives all other countries. Rev. 18:23
Most in the USA think of ourselves as the ‘good guys’. After all, the USA is for “Liberty and Justice for all!”, right?
Maybe not. Let’s review USA history:
1. The early American Indians received little “liberty and justice”. LINK
2. So did lots of folks with dark skin. LINK
3. The Southerners learned of USA liberty when they chose to constitutionally withdraw from the Union because of unfair taxation. LINK The “Civil War” wasn’t mainly about slavery. LINK
4. In the early 1900’s Germany was becoming a world power to rival Great Britain and the USA. Two “great” wars beat them back down. LINK
5. The Korean War was all about global (United Nations) dominance. LINK
6. So was the Vietnam disaster. LINK
7. Iraq, Afghanistan, perhaps soon Pakistan and all of these Middle East “uprisings” are about money and control by the global banking elite. LINK
It spreads its sexual immorality to other countries. Rev. 18:3
Rather obvious. One word: “Hollywood”. America has the largest pornography business in the world
It lives in luxury. Rev. 18:7
The USA has been a very wealthy country indeed!
It is now experiencing increasing poverty as criminal bankers foreclose on the planet. For a heartbreaking example here is a link to a 60 Minutes piece about banker foreclosure fraud. LINK
It helps others get rich. Rev. 18:19, Rev. 18:3
Examples of this abound. One of the most obvious is the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. King Abdullah’s oil fields were not developed by the Bedouin, but by Rockefeller’s Exxon Mobile and Rothschild’s Royal Dutch Shell.
It is a country that is tied to another country. Rev. 18:7
The USA is tied to England. 1776 was a family squabble. Just follow the money:
1. The world’s “dollar” monetary system is controlled by the New York Federal Reserve Bank. LINK
2. The Federal Reserve is privately owned by global bankers with names like Rothschild, and others. LINK
3. Rothschild also controls the Bank of England. LINK (Bank of International Settlements, International Monetary Fund, World Bank, etc.)
Ergo, the USA is, economically speaking, England’s “Queen”; and not a “widow”. Rev. 18:7
It is suddenly and utterly destroyed by fire. Rev. 18:8, Rev. 18:9-10, Rev. 18:17-18
Obviously this has not happened yet. How could it?
One possible answer: Yellowstone. It is one of the world’s greatest calderas; a cauldron into the belly of the earth that is capable of producing a monster volcano. LINK
It could cause the whole of North America to be covered by a devastating cloud of ash.
It’s been discovered that earthquakes, 2000 miles away, off the North West coast, are linked to geyser increases in Yellowstone! LINK
It is a country responsible for many deaths. Rev. 18:24
This subject is horrible to contemplate. Examples: Hiroshima LINK, Agent Orange LINK. War’s cost in misery and death is incalculable.
True statement: Wars are deliberately planned by Satan and his global rulers for profit and control, always leading us closer to his coming world government.
Example A) Here is the real reason why The USA is currently leading the charge in the Middle East. LINK
Example B) The USA government finally admitted the Vietnam War began with a lie. Vid LINK
Example C) Here is obvious evidence that the endless, so called “War on Terror” sadly began by using professional demolition experts on 911. LINK Hundreds of thousands of folks have been hurt or killed ever since.
Other countries are forced to get into debt and trade in USA paper “dollars” or else! If you don’t want to participate in the “dollar” denominated banking system you can find yourself at the wrong end of a very big gun. (Video LINK: Economic Hit Man.)
The USA has lots of guns. The USA Military is currently stationed in 150 of the 194 countries of the world. LINK & LINK
We shall see...well, maybe the next generation, or the one after that, or after that...so and so on.
C
crisico
Guest
C
crisico
Guest
Check out the link below...
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/america_babylon.htm
T
Tintin
Guest
The theory is outlandish. The Statue of Liberty was based on a girl from France and given to America as a gift.
nah, you win. I think I'll make Zone my spokes person, she does a better job.
D
Donkeyfish07
Guest
The maker of the statue was a French Free Mason named Frederic Auguste Bartholdi. If you research him there are quotes of him talking about how it was inspired by Ishtar. There is a masonic dedication plaque at the site of the statue. She is holding the Masonic “Torch of Enlightenment”, which was also referred to back in the 1700’s as the “Flaming Torch of Reason”. It's a satanic symbol. If you've ever seen a columbia motion pictures film, You've probably seen a similar figure. A woman on a pedestal holding the "Flaming Torch of Reason". Columbia is also another name Ishtar is known as, as I described in an earlier post. The whore sits on many waters.
I think you need to spend less time searching websites to justify this theory and open your bible and study for yourself.
There are many different ideas about Revelation, Babylon and prophecy. They all cannot be correct now can they?
Study for yourself and don't trust someone elses writing or ideas. You will fail.
C
crisico
Guest
This is exactly what I'm talking about the statue does sit in on many waters. The statue symbolizes
Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, "The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."
It is interesting that the promoters of the Statue of Liberty claim that the seven spikes of her crown represent the seven seas!
More from “Statue of Liberty Facts”...
Official accepting Statue on behalf of US: President Grover Cleveland
Date of Acceptance by President: October 28, 1886
Part of Acceptance Statement by President Cleveland:
"We will not forget that liberty here made her home;
nor shall her chosen altar be neglected."
Some highlights of the Statue Inscription:
...a mighty woman with a torch
and her name Mother of Exiles.
"Keep ancient lands your storied pomp!"
cries she with silent lips.
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.
Emma Lazarus (1849-1887)
The idol Ishtar (represented by the Statue of Liberty) was known, in ancient Babylon, as the goddess of personal freedom and the goddess of immigrants. The following was taken from, "America the Babylon" by Richard Coombs:
Ishtar was called the matron goddess of prostitution because she promoted sexual freedom. Indeed, she had invented the concept. Slaves considered her their goddess in the hopes of winning their freedom. Many women who gained freedom later turned to prostitution to survive and thereby retained Libertas as their goddess, especially if they became priestesses in the Libertas cult. Libertas was also a goddess of war in order to fight for freedom. She was also referred at times as the goddess of victory because freedom must have victory in order to survive. This goddess was also the goddess of immigrants. The whole idea of immigration connoted the idea of freedom. Her popularity was also unique because of her unique doctrine of hearing personal prayers. This unique doctrine was something that most of the pagan deity doctrines were not disposed towards.
We know that this goddess existed because of the records left behind to us. We have the ancient writings of Cicero who writes of this goddess and her Temple on the Aventine Way in Rome. She was depicted on some Roman coins as wearing a freedom cap and having a wreath along with a spear or sometimes a sword. Such coin images were not the only depictions. Sometimes she was well robed and at other times seductively unclothed in both sculptures and paintings. We know of Libertas being referred to as the Mother of Harlots by the famous Roman historian (and senator) Cicero's writings. Cicero indicates that she was also a very early goddess of the Greeks even before early Roman civilization developed.
This very freedom has brought to these shores (America) every false religion known to man.
D
Donkeyfish07
Guest
The statue is really a moot point. It's just a small mark of what Mystery Babylon has done although the goddess figure is central to the religion. The statue is just a small fact in the grand scheme of things but it's good introductory material for people who don't know anything about it.. You should really look into the relationship between "Ishtar" and "Easter" if you want to go deeper..... You may already know and I apologize if so
.
C
crisico
Guest
L
Laodicea
Guest
Revelation 17:5 KJV
(5) And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Babylon is here a woman and a woman in prophecy represents a church either good or bad. God's true church is mentioned as a woman in Revelation 12, while Satan's counterfeit church to appear as the true is mentioned in Revelation 17. Contrast the two:-
[TABLE="align: left"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] True church dressed in White Rev 12:1, 2
Her children keep the Commandments Rev 12:17
False church dressed in purple Rev 17:4
[SUP]Her Children are Harlots Rev 17:5[/SUP]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
(5) And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Babylon is here a woman and a woman in prophecy represents a church either good or bad. God's true church is mentioned as a woman in Revelation 12, while Satan's counterfeit church to appear as the true is mentioned in Revelation 17. Contrast the two:-
[TABLE="align: left"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"] True church dressed in White Rev 12:1, 2
Her children keep the Commandments Rev 12:17
False church dressed in purple Rev 17:4
[SUP]Her Children are Harlots Rev 17:5[/SUP]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
C
crisico
Guest
Now, let us look at all of the key character traits found in the various applied prophecies of this future Babylon. The following is a list of those traits that describe and therefore help us to understand and recognize this future Babylon that do NOT fit the theory of Rome as being this future Babylon.
#1. The Jewish Population Issue Jeremiah 50:8, 25; Jeremiah 51: 6, 45; Isaiah 48:20 and also Revelation 18:4 … are all references to Jewish people living in this future mystery Babylon. In the ancient Babylon, from the 6th Century BC till well into the early Church Age, the majority of the Jewish population lived in ancient Babylon. It was the home to most of the world’s Jews even in the time of Christ. Today, the largest population of Jewish people is found in the United States. The next two nations … Israel (home to the 2nd largest Jewish population) and Russia (home to the 3rd largest Jewish population) combined do not equal the population of Jewish people living in America. Rome on the other hand has some Jews living in its borders but not enough, nor prominent enough to match the criteria. Therefore, this trait alone disqualifies the theory of Rome = Mystery Babylon.
#2. The chief city of Mystery Babylon is a "DEEP WATER PORT CITY"!!! Revelation 18: 17-19. This passage tells us that merchant ships are standing off the shoreline of Babylon. These ships have either just unloaded in the port city of Mystery Babylon, or are waiting to dock when the fiery judgment hits. These ship captains, crew and passengers are witnesses to the destruction. Question? Why would these folks be standing on deck of merchant ships unless there were Port facilities in this city? Answer. The city is a port city. In this day and age, especially by virtue of the list of commodities that are traded in "mystery Babylon"… see Revelation 18:11-13… one thing can be noted… this city, to have this kind of merchandise coming in by ships…must be a DEEP WATER SEAPORT CITY. Why? For ships of today to bring such merchandise requires the ships to be large commercial freighters. These ships require deep-water port facilities to dock and unload/load. They must have a harbor with large depths.
Now here is the problem for the "Rome = Babylon" theorists. Rome is NOT a deepwater seaport, period!!! Ancient Rome, we are told must be the only literal interpretation. However, Ancient Rome was not a Seaport either. Rome is landlocked.
#3. It is the KEY Commercial Nation and Engine of Wealth for the World’s Economy. Isaiah 47:15. Revelation 17:2; Revelation 18: 3, 9, 11-13, 15, 16, 17-19, 22, 23, & 19:2. Here in these passages we see just what relationship Babylon enjoys with the rest of the world. Here she is clearly the critical factor in the world economy. When she goes down in flames…what is the lament?? "What was like unto this mega city?" "Who will buy our goods now that she is gone"?? The answer is that no one will be able to buy the products of the world’s merchants. What does this tell us??? It should be a clear warning indicator that whoever this nation is… the rest of the world depends on her for buying their merchandise. With her destruction, there is no one left to buy their goods. That tells us just how vital this nation is. That means that this nation is the engine of wealth for the world.
Now, Rome (nor Italy) does NOT and can not fit that role…at least not in the next 30 years, unless the rest of the world is wiped out first. Rome and Italy have nearly gone broke several times. They have the shakiest economy in all of Europe, save for other communist bloc nations. Once again, we see a character trait that Rome does not exemplify in anyway, shape nor form.
#1. The Jewish Population Issue Jeremiah 50:8, 25; Jeremiah 51: 6, 45; Isaiah 48:20 and also Revelation 18:4 … are all references to Jewish people living in this future mystery Babylon. In the ancient Babylon, from the 6th Century BC till well into the early Church Age, the majority of the Jewish population lived in ancient Babylon. It was the home to most of the world’s Jews even in the time of Christ. Today, the largest population of Jewish people is found in the United States. The next two nations … Israel (home to the 2nd largest Jewish population) and Russia (home to the 3rd largest Jewish population) combined do not equal the population of Jewish people living in America. Rome on the other hand has some Jews living in its borders but not enough, nor prominent enough to match the criteria. Therefore, this trait alone disqualifies the theory of Rome = Mystery Babylon.
#2. The chief city of Mystery Babylon is a "DEEP WATER PORT CITY"!!! Revelation 18: 17-19. This passage tells us that merchant ships are standing off the shoreline of Babylon. These ships have either just unloaded in the port city of Mystery Babylon, or are waiting to dock when the fiery judgment hits. These ship captains, crew and passengers are witnesses to the destruction. Question? Why would these folks be standing on deck of merchant ships unless there were Port facilities in this city? Answer. The city is a port city. In this day and age, especially by virtue of the list of commodities that are traded in "mystery Babylon"… see Revelation 18:11-13… one thing can be noted… this city, to have this kind of merchandise coming in by ships…must be a DEEP WATER SEAPORT CITY. Why? For ships of today to bring such merchandise requires the ships to be large commercial freighters. These ships require deep-water port facilities to dock and unload/load. They must have a harbor with large depths.
Now here is the problem for the "Rome = Babylon" theorists. Rome is NOT a deepwater seaport, period!!! Ancient Rome, we are told must be the only literal interpretation. However, Ancient Rome was not a Seaport either. Rome is landlocked.
#3. It is the KEY Commercial Nation and Engine of Wealth for the World’s Economy. Isaiah 47:15. Revelation 17:2; Revelation 18: 3, 9, 11-13, 15, 16, 17-19, 22, 23, & 19:2. Here in these passages we see just what relationship Babylon enjoys with the rest of the world. Here she is clearly the critical factor in the world economy. When she goes down in flames…what is the lament?? "What was like unto this mega city?" "Who will buy our goods now that she is gone"?? The answer is that no one will be able to buy the products of the world’s merchants. What does this tell us??? It should be a clear warning indicator that whoever this nation is… the rest of the world depends on her for buying their merchandise. With her destruction, there is no one left to buy their goods. That tells us just how vital this nation is. That means that this nation is the engine of wealth for the world.
Now, Rome (nor Italy) does NOT and can not fit that role…at least not in the next 30 years, unless the rest of the world is wiped out first. Rome and Italy have nearly gone broke several times. They have the shakiest economy in all of Europe, save for other communist bloc nations. Once again, we see a character trait that Rome does not exemplify in anyway, shape nor form.
C
crisico
Guest
#4-#21… These are 18 commodities in a list that are the chief trading products as cited in Rev 18:11-13 for which the merchants and sailors later lament that no one will buy their products anymore! Rev 18:12-13 provides a list of Gold, Silver and Copper. Now on these items alone… there is more Gold traded in New York City on the COMEX in one day than in all the rest of the world, combined !!! The same is true for Silver and Copper also. It is true for Crude Oil. In fact, the volumes of trade are so heavy that in one day alone, there is more gold traded in one day than had been traded in all of human history up until 1974 when Gold trading was allowed to be done on a futures contractual basis. That is how massive and how dominant the USA and NYC are in the commodities trading markets. Revelation 18: 12 & 13, lists many other commodities as well… including grains and livestock.
Now, Chicago is the host city for such record trading in that arena. (It too is a port city on Lake Michigan). The fact of the matter is this… Rome/Italy has one of the shakiest economies in Europe… It has no ability to be the economic engine of wealth for the whole world. If Rome vanished from the face of the earth today…it would not even cause a ripple in the World’s economy. However, if the USA vanished today… it would decimate the world’s economy and bankrupt every nation on earth, instantly. In essence, there would be no one left to buy the foreigner’s goods. That’s because no one else wants to import goods…they only want to export. The USA was the big promoter of international trade and promoted imports. Iraq plays no such role in the world economy. She is too poor to do so.
#22. Leading center of imports and consumption. Revelation 18: 11, 17-19. These passages tell us the economic picture of this nation. Note that this nation is not only involved in the trade of these products, but that she is also the leading importer… because when she is destroyed…"no one buys"… their merchandise anymore. The folks lamenting are the international merchants who export goods to this mystery Babylon. Therefore, she is the leading import nation. She also then is by virtue of her importer status… the chief consuming nation. This also is not a description of Rome or Italy. Rome/Italy has no such status in the world today or for tomorrow or the foreseeable future! It is this aspect which negates the Rome = Babylon theory…because the contention is that we are living in the "last days" and the fulfillment of the end-times prophecies are at hand. IF this is true, and I assert that it indeed is true…then how can Rome, Italy or even Iraq match these character traits in so short a span of time??? Answer: she can’t. She is not the nation being described. There is one nation that does fit all of these traits, and then many more traits that are also listed. That nation is the United States of America.
#23. She is also a manufacturing nation. Revelation 18: 22. This passage tells us about her manufacturing no longer being found in her after the judgment. This tells us she was a manufacturing nation before the judgment. Rome/Italy is not a nation noted for being a world leader in manufacturing. How many folks do you know drive an Italian car here in the United States? There aren't that many Europeans driving Italian cars either as a relative percentage.
#24. Center for Merchandising and Marketing. Revelation 18: 3, 23; 19:2. Her merchants were the mega-merchants of the earth. This again does not fit the character traits of Rome or Italy. It does fit the picture of America.
#25. Known as the World’s "policeman". Jeremiah 50:23 gives us a Hebrew idiom, "hammer of the whole earth". It had been used at one time to describe the way the empires of Persia, Greece and Rome had applied their power to keep the world at peace. Today, after the decline and fall of the Iron Curtain, major news media referred to America as the world’s policeman, in the same kind of role that the Hebrew idiom references. Rome or Italy does not fit this role.
Now, Chicago is the host city for such record trading in that arena. (It too is a port city on Lake Michigan). The fact of the matter is this… Rome/Italy has one of the shakiest economies in Europe… It has no ability to be the economic engine of wealth for the whole world. If Rome vanished from the face of the earth today…it would not even cause a ripple in the World’s economy. However, if the USA vanished today… it would decimate the world’s economy and bankrupt every nation on earth, instantly. In essence, there would be no one left to buy the foreigner’s goods. That’s because no one else wants to import goods…they only want to export. The USA was the big promoter of international trade and promoted imports. Iraq plays no such role in the world economy. She is too poor to do so.
#22. Leading center of imports and consumption. Revelation 18: 11, 17-19. These passages tell us the economic picture of this nation. Note that this nation is not only involved in the trade of these products, but that she is also the leading importer… because when she is destroyed…"no one buys"… their merchandise anymore. The folks lamenting are the international merchants who export goods to this mystery Babylon. Therefore, she is the leading import nation. She also then is by virtue of her importer status… the chief consuming nation. This also is not a description of Rome or Italy. Rome/Italy has no such status in the world today or for tomorrow or the foreseeable future! It is this aspect which negates the Rome = Babylon theory…because the contention is that we are living in the "last days" and the fulfillment of the end-times prophecies are at hand. IF this is true, and I assert that it indeed is true…then how can Rome, Italy or even Iraq match these character traits in so short a span of time??? Answer: she can’t. She is not the nation being described. There is one nation that does fit all of these traits, and then many more traits that are also listed. That nation is the United States of America.
#23. She is also a manufacturing nation. Revelation 18: 22. This passage tells us about her manufacturing no longer being found in her after the judgment. This tells us she was a manufacturing nation before the judgment. Rome/Italy is not a nation noted for being a world leader in manufacturing. How many folks do you know drive an Italian car here in the United States? There aren't that many Europeans driving Italian cars either as a relative percentage.
#24. Center for Merchandising and Marketing. Revelation 18: 3, 23; 19:2. Her merchants were the mega-merchants of the earth. This again does not fit the character traits of Rome or Italy. It does fit the picture of America.
#25. Known as the World’s "policeman". Jeremiah 50:23 gives us a Hebrew idiom, "hammer of the whole earth". It had been used at one time to describe the way the empires of Persia, Greece and Rome had applied their power to keep the world at peace. Today, after the decline and fall of the Iron Curtain, major news media referred to America as the world’s policeman, in the same kind of role that the Hebrew idiom references. Rome or Italy does not fit this role.
C
crisico
Guest
#26. Known for "showing the flag" or "gunboat diplomacy". Isaiah 18:1-2 Here again, 2 Hebrew idioms for the idea of a nation’s navy showing its power. The phrase in verse 1 relates to the idea of "air travel". The first phrase of verse 2…"that sends ambassadors by the sea" another Hebrew idiom for when ancient naval powers would send warships to "show the flag" of friendship or threaten war to unfriendly nations or cities. Today, one nation engages in such actions. The USA does send out naval units usually as aircraft carrier battle groups. The notion of verse 1 with air travel combined with verse 2 and the naval aspect, thus combines to send a notion of naval and air power … or suggesting aircraft carriers!!! Rome has no military of any kind. Italy has very limited military power. Her naval power is especially limited to Home waters.
#27. Noted for its elegant luxurious lifestyles, refined, rich lifestyles. Isaiah 47: 1-8; Revelation 17: 4-5; 18: 2 –24, This does not match up with Rome. Rome is not capable of reaching such levels of wealthy living standards in our lifetime. It's always fighting perpetual rounds of inflation bordering at times near hyperinflation levels.
#28. Extremely Wealthy Jeremiah 51:13 Revelation 18: 2-19. Rome isn't that wealthy.
#29. The Highest Living Standards Isaiah 47:1 Revelation 18: 14. Italy does not enjoy any standard near the levels of the US or most other nations of Europe.
#30. Noted for its bright gaudy-colored lights and nightlife with round the-clock partying. Revelation 18:14. Note the words "dainty" and "goodly". Dainty is a word in Greek that connotes to 24-hour parties and is connoted with orgies and debauchery. The word for "goodly" is the Greek word "lampra" from which we get the English word for lamp. In this case it carries the idea of bright, gaudy-colored lights, with idea of "glitzy" lights. The bright lights of Broadway or Times Square?? Or perhaps even Las Vegas?? While Rome might have some lights, its not reached the levels of New York City or Las Vegas, etc.
#31. Noted for its Drugs and Drug use. Isaiah 47: 9, 12. Revelation 18:23 Do we even need to comment on this one???? I think not… the text clearly speaks for itself on this one. This should be a "no-brainer". Even the Italian Mafia is no longer the big kingpin in the drug world. That belongs to other cultures now.
#32. Noted for its culture. Revelation 18:14, 22 Okay, some might want to debate that…but you don't see a lot of Italian movies winning Oscars, or its music dominating radio stations around the world, or its TV programs in syndication around the world. It's not world leader in developing new art. Yes, it does dominate the world of opera, but the world does not pay much attention to opera.
#36. Noted for being Wasteful, Extravagant. Rev 18: 3, 7, 9, 14, 15;
implied in Rev 17: 2. Here again, we've got another "no-brainer." Texas alone matches most nations and that would probably include Italy and Rome.
#27. Noted for its elegant luxurious lifestyles, refined, rich lifestyles. Isaiah 47: 1-8; Revelation 17: 4-5; 18: 2 –24, This does not match up with Rome. Rome is not capable of reaching such levels of wealthy living standards in our lifetime. It's always fighting perpetual rounds of inflation bordering at times near hyperinflation levels.
#28. Extremely Wealthy Jeremiah 51:13 Revelation 18: 2-19. Rome isn't that wealthy.
#29. The Highest Living Standards Isaiah 47:1 Revelation 18: 14. Italy does not enjoy any standard near the levels of the US or most other nations of Europe.
#30. Noted for its bright gaudy-colored lights and nightlife with round the-clock partying. Revelation 18:14. Note the words "dainty" and "goodly". Dainty is a word in Greek that connotes to 24-hour parties and is connoted with orgies and debauchery. The word for "goodly" is the Greek word "lampra" from which we get the English word for lamp. In this case it carries the idea of bright, gaudy-colored lights, with idea of "glitzy" lights. The bright lights of Broadway or Times Square?? Or perhaps even Las Vegas?? While Rome might have some lights, its not reached the levels of New York City or Las Vegas, etc.
#31. Noted for its Drugs and Drug use. Isaiah 47: 9, 12. Revelation 18:23 Do we even need to comment on this one???? I think not… the text clearly speaks for itself on this one. This should be a "no-brainer". Even the Italian Mafia is no longer the big kingpin in the drug world. That belongs to other cultures now.
#32. Noted for its culture. Revelation 18:14, 22 Okay, some might want to debate that…but you don't see a lot of Italian movies winning Oscars, or its music dominating radio stations around the world, or its TV programs in syndication around the world. It's not world leader in developing new art. Yes, it does dominate the world of opera, but the world does not pay much attention to opera.
#36. Noted for being Wasteful, Extravagant. Rev 18: 3, 7, 9, 14, 15;
implied in Rev 17: 2. Here again, we've got another "no-brainer." Texas alone matches most nations and that would probably include Italy and Rome.