Is this teaching still valid for the NT Christian?

[Hizikyah]

Yes, of course.

God is merciful. The law is not.

Neither is mercy.

just so!

in fact, the exact opposite!

Yahshua seems to disagree because He says the Law properly understood is to trat others as we want to be treated....

Mattithyah 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."

Also John:

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."


1 John 5:2-3 (ESV), "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."


1 John 5:2-3(NASB)
"2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."

Seems love with His Instructions is not really love at all, but rather a made up version of love.

Which fit perfectly with what is said here:

Mat 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deuteronomy 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18). On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

 

[LaurenTM]

you are free to believe what you want

the nit in the picking, is you telling us that the rest of us are wrong

you have your own version of scripture it seems...picking out what you mistakenly believe supports your opinions and then spreading it out like some kind of salvo

it's just how you in particular see things...it's not how they appear in scripture

 

[Hizikyah]

Not sure I understood you exact direction, but to build on that if I did; This topic is covered here, Yahshua the REAL PASSOVER LAMB:




(also the day of Atonement IMO is about Yahshua returning and destroying all the evil upon earth at that time because there need only be 1 Sacrifice not 2):

This would be trumpets:

Mattithyah 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."


This would be Atonement:


Daniyl 2:34-35, "You watched while a stone, which was cut out without hands, struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them into pieces. Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were broken to pieces at the same time, and became like the chaffon the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that no trace of them could be found; and the stone that struck the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth."


Revelation 19:11-16, “And I saw the heaven opened, and there was a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Trustworthy and True, and in righteousnes He judges and fights. And His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns, having a Name that had been written, which no one had perceived except Himself – and having been dressed in a robe dipped in blood – and His Name is called: The Word of יהוה. And the armies in the heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations. And He shall shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of the Almighty Strength. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written: SOVEREIGN OF SOVEREIGNS AND MASTER OF MASTERS.”

guess some folks are just gonna see God as a vengeful head cracking nihilist

I think that speaks more to the wrongful conclusion that there is somehow an involvement of the human capacity to stop sinning and become next in line to being able to forgive the sins of others

since that has already been demonstrated, I rest my case...'

you (generic you) cannot possibly achieve this type of mind twisting conclusion without cherry picking verses and ignoring much of the NT

Are you implying that because I post Scripture showing what IS really going to happen, as Messiah is going to return as a Lion that I somehow see :

guess some folks are just gonna see God as a vengeful head cracking nihilist... snip

I take the entire word, genesis to revelation thank you.

and yes He came as a Lamb, and WILL RETURN AS A LION. I thank praise and give glory to Yah for this!

 

[LaurenTM]

you asked a question for your op

check out my answer

but that is not really the answer you want, now is it!

this is just another attempt to illustrate what you perceive as the actual understanding, notwithstanding it is just your own private interpretation

you have no position from which to make a point...the foundation you appear to wish to use as your pivotal comprehension points (don't you just love alliteration?) are verses you have strung together that are not found together...this is what happens when you do a topical study without the prior comprehensive study of both testaments

I take the entire word, genesis to revelation thank you.

seems like you do...but then you pick out verses to make your opinions valid...it's not working...but you appear to think you have found the truth hidden to those who simply trust in God as per scripture

and yes He came as a Lamb, and WILL RETURN AS A LION. I thank praise and give glory to Yah for this!

uh huh

and the way you say that, it seems you believe God desires to shed blood

see, that is your private interpretation which you have somehow confused with OT scripture while forgetting most of the new

God is not willing that any should perish...but that seems to have escaped you

 

[LaurenTM]

Like I said in the other thread

it's no use to try to make points from scripture that a person does not believe should be in the Bible

ie: Paul's letters

 

[Grandpa]

Yahshua seems to disagree because He says the Law properly understood is to trat others as we want to be treated....

Mattithyah 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."

Also John:

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."


1 John 5:2-3 (ESV), "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."


1 John 5:2-3(NASB)
"2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."

Seems love with His Instructions is not really love at all, but rather a made up version of love.

Which fit perfectly with what is said here:

And if you fail what does the law say about the mercy that is due to you?

 

[Hizikyah]

you asked a question for your op

check out my answer

but that is not really the answer you want, now is it!

this is just another attempt to illustrate what you perceive as the actual understanding, notwithstanding it is just your own private interpretation

you have no position from which to make a point...the foundation you appear to wish to use as your pivotal comprehension points (don't you just love alliteration?) are verses you have strung together that are not found together...this is what happens when you do a topical study without the prior comprehensive study of both testaments



seems like you do...but then you pick out verses to make your opinions valid...it's not working...but you appear to think you have found the truth hidden to those who simply trust in God as per scripture



uh huh

and the way you say that, it seems you believe God desires to shed blood

see, that is your private interpretation which you have somehow confused with OT scripture while forgetting most of the new

God is not willing that any should perish...but that seems to have escaped you

It seems you have turned to personal atacks and falsely putting doctrines into my mouth... Very telling IMO.

 

[LaurenTM]

It seems you have turned to personal atacks and falsely putting doctrines into my mouth... Very telling IMO.

yeah...here's a kleenex

I did no such thing!

what is actually occurring is that you cannot object because I wrote what is true about your personal opinions

what do you think of Paul's letters? do you accept them as valid scripture?

if you do, why do you ignore what they teach?

 

[Hizikyah]

And if you fail what does the law say about the mercy that is due to you?

We all fail at walking in Yashua's/Jesus footsteps perfectly, that is why Yah gave us mercy:

Isayah 53, "....... because He poured out His soul to death, and He was numbered with the transgressors; and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

1 John 1:8-10, “If we say that we have no sin, we are misleading ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is trustworthy and righteous to forgive us the sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.”

and when we do sin we:

1 John 2:1-2, “My little children, I write this to you, so that you do not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Intercessor with the Father, יהושע Messiah, a righteous One. And He Himself is an atoning offering for our sins, and not for ours only but also for all the world.”

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

1 John 2:3-7 English Standard Version (ESV)
“And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard.

1 John 2:3-7 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
“Now by this we may be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments. Whoever says, “I have come to know him,” but does not obey his commandments, is a liar, and in such a person the truth does not exist; but whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has reached perfection. By this we may be sure that we are in him: whoever says, “I abide in him,” ought to walk just as he walked. Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word that you have heard.”

1 John 2:3-7 King James Version (KJV)
“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.”

 

[LaurenTM]

and Paul?

gonna answer that one?

 

[Hizikyah]

yeah...here's a kleenex

I did no such thing!

what is actually occurring is that you cannot object because I wrote what is true about your personal opinions

what do you think of Paul's letters? do you accept them as valid scripture?

if you do, why do you ignore what they teach?

"Here is a kleenex" oh you are real sincere....

I believe people isolate Paul's writings and filter the entire word through them as most curches near exclusively read Paul.

I believe the is much truth and depth in his writings, yet they are misunderstood by many. He lived in a diffent time and those who know nothing of his upbringing, culture, etc. almost certianly twist his words.

I have one question (multi part) for you concerning Paul,

what do you think about why this was written?

Is it true?

Has any other book or writer of Scripture ever been explained in this way?

What can we take from this?

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

because if we take the whole word we can see:

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."

 

[Hizikyah]

and Paul?

gonna answer that one?

Do I get time to type? You are pushy. (answered above)

 

[Grandpa]

We all fail at walking in Yashua's/Jesus footsteps perfectly, that is why Yah gave us mercy:

Isayah 53, "....... because He poured out His soul to death, and He was numbered with the transgressors; and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

1 John 1:8-10, “If we say that we have no sin, we are misleading ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is trustworthy and righteous to forgive us the sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.”

and when we do sin we:

1 John 2:1-2, “My little children, I write this to you, so that you do not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Intercessor with the Father, יהושע Messiah, a righteous One. And He Himself is an atoning offering for our sins, and not for ours only but also for all the world.”

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

1 John 2:3-7 English Standard Version (ESV)
“And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard.

1 John 2:3-7 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
“Now by this we may be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments. Whoever says, “I have come to know him,” but does not obey his commandments, is a liar, and in such a person the truth does not exist; but whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has reached perfection. By this we may be sure that we are in him: whoever says, “I abide in him,” ought to walk just as he walked. Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word that you have heard.”

1 John 2:3-7 King James Version (KJV)
“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.”

I know God is Merciful. I stated that from the beginning.

I want you to show that the Law is merciful. Like you said it was.

 

[Hizikyah]

I know God is Merciful. I stated that from the beginning.

I want you to show that the Law is merciful. Like you said it was.

Without the Law of Sacrifice there would be no mercy, the only reason we have mercy is because Yahshua/Jesus gave Himself up in our place. The greatest gift of mercy ever given was by the Law and will of the Most High.

Is there anything not true about that?

 

[posthuman]

I know God is Merciful. I stated that from the beginning.

I want you to show that the Law is merciful. Like you said it was.

The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming — not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
(Hebrews 10:1-4)
​

if the Law condemns all under sin and never removes sin, then all live only because of God's mercy.

if the sacrifices of the Law were never able to cleanse, then every one of them was not an atonement, but a hope of atonement - and God never found in them sufficient payment, but responded with mercy, in His lovingkindness and faithfulness to His promises.

if the Law is a reminder of sin, as we all yet live it is a reminder of His mercy toward us.

 

[Grace777x70]

The proclamation of Christ produces the profession of Christ, but the explanation of Christ is what produces the experience of Christ.

Believers can never fully enjoy the triumph of the gospel and express Christ in this world victoriously until there has been an explanation and exposition of the vivid details of the redemptive work of Christ that has gained a foothold in our renewed minds.

The 4 gospels were eyewitness accounts of the historical events in the life and ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ. Christianity is based on the veracity of these events as having occurred in real time, in all historicity and specificity.

Nevertheless it is the unveiling of the spiritual realities of these events that relates to the believer in Christ. This is found in the revelation that the Lord Jesus Christ gave to the apostle Paul - NOT in the law of Moses. It brought us to Christ - thank God!

The 4 gospels are the proclamation of the gospel. They disclose to us what men saw. Acts of the apostles is the demonstration of the gospel, but it is Paul's letters which give us an explanation of the gospel. It is the Pauline Epistles that are the constitution of this church age.

Paul's epistles explain what happened from the cross, death, burial, quickening and resurrection to the being seated at the right hand of the Father. Without these epistles we would have no idea what Jesus our Lord actually accomplished for us.

Paul was taught by Jesus Christ Himself to explain His gospel = to reveal the mystery that was hidden in God until it was revealed by Christ to Paul. The mystery being Christ Himself and the riches of that glory is that Christ is in us and we are in Him!

 

[Hizikyah]

1 John 4:20 New American Standard Bible
"If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen."


1 John 4:19-21, "We love Him, because He first loved us. If anyone says: I love YHWH, and hates his neighbor, he is a liar; for he who does not love his neighbor whom he has seen, how can he love YHWH Whom he has not seen? For we have this commandment from Him: That he who loves YHWH must love his neighbor also."


Now im sure we can go ask 1,000,000,000 people "what is love" and get a different answer every time, but I say if we ask YHWH "what is love" a 1,000,000,000 times, we will get the same answer every time....


Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might(Deut 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself(Lev 19:18). On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."


Deuteronomy 6:5, "And you must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."


Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."


Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."


"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459


Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness




1 Yahanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of YHWH: When we love YHWH by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of YHWH: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."


Leviticus 19:18, "Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor; whether a brother (or an enemy), as yourself. I am YHWH."


Leviticus 19:34, "The stranger living with you must be treated as one ofyour native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land ofEgypt. I am YHWH."


Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."




Deuteronomy 10:16, "Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and do not be stiff-necked any longer."


Love in practice, not in jaw flappin:


Leviticus 19:9-18,29-31 "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not completely harvest the corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. You shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and the stranger; I am YHWH your Father. You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie one to another. Do not vow falsely with My Name, and so profane the Name of your Father. I am YHWH. You shall not defraud your neighbor, nor rob him. Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight. Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am YHWH. Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great. In righteousness you shall judge your neighbor fairly. You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am YHWH. You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt. Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor; whether a brother, as yourself. I am YHWH.Do not prostitute your daughter, to cause her to be a harlot; or the land will fall into harlotry, and the land will become full of wickedness. Do not turn to mediums nor familiar spirits. Do not seek after them, to be defiled by them. I am YHWH. You shall stand up before the gray headed, and you shall honor the presence of an Elder or Teacher; thereby giving reverence to your Heavenly Father. I am YHWH. If a stranger lives with you in your and, do not mistreat him. The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am YHWH. Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight, or quantity. You shall have honest balances, honest weights, an honest ephah; a dry measure, and an honest in; a liquid measure. I am YHWH your Father Who brought you out of the land of Egypt; Therefore, you must observe all My statutes and My judgments, and perform and do them. I am YHWH."


Deuteronomy 14:28-29At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.


Deuteronomy 15:7-8If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. Rather be openhanded and freely lend him whatever he needs


Deuteronomy 15:11There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land.

Without the Law of Sacrifice there would be no mercy, the only reason we have mercy is because Yahshua/Jesus gave Himself up in our place. The greatest gift of mercy ever given was by the Law and will of the Most High.

Is there anything not true about that?

 

[Hizikyah]

The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming — not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
(Hebrews 10:1-4)
​

if the Law condemns all under sin and never removes sin, then all live only because of God's mercy.

if the sacrifices of the Law were never able to cleanse, then every one of them was not an atonement, but a hope of atonement - and God never found in them sufficient payment, but responded with mercy, in His lovingkindness and faithfulness to His promises.

if the Law is a reminder of sin, as we all yet live it is a reminder of His mercy toward us.

Animal sacrifice could never remove sin, Yahshua's/Jesus Sacrifice did...

 

[Grandpa]

Without the Law of Sacrifice there would be no mercy, the only reason we have mercy is because Yahshua/Jesus gave Himself up in our place. The greatest gift of mercy ever given was by the Law and will of the Most High.

Is there anything not true about that?

You are really confused.

You keep showing Christ as Mercy. I keep telling you yes, I know.

You said the law contained mercy. And it does not.

The Law is not Christ.

John1:17 [FONT=&quot]For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.[/FONT]

 

[Grandpa]

The greatest gift of mercy ever given is the Lord Jesus Christ.

The law is not mercy.

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
[FONT=&quot]7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.[/FONT]