Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[WayneNSO]

That's why the book of Revelation is so hard to interpret. There are many parallels describing past events and then future events together. It's like trying to decipher a dream within another dream.

To me all of Revelation is chronological, and yes you get some in-between Chapters that combine past and future events like you said, like overview chapters. But when I get to chapters 19 and 20 that's when my chronological view falls apart, and I look at the different views out there about the 1000 years and none of them are without inconsistences. So I concluded they must be parallel chapters, and that I will never fully understand what the 1000 years is suppose to represent

Yes it is like that movie Inception, a dream within a dream lol

And unlike a previous post by someone attacking me for not knowing everything like they supposedly do, I do not have a problem saying I do not know. Id rather say that than pin my colours to a view just because it is the accepted view, and by doing that ignore the errors in the view.

 

[Revelation1v8]

Jesus said in John 3:3 that unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God

right Jesus the mediator of the new covenant said they had to be born again .

what I said was in the old covenant they had no such instruction or knowledge and it was never required until they broke the old covenant and became defiled. That’s the reason someone needs to be born again because of this

“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So a new covenant requires new people with cleaned up hearts and changed minds and attitudes new spirits …….

this covenant made with israel through Moses it’s mediator had its own blessings and curses based upon Moses words written in the book of the law.

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.


But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

curses ? In Israel’s law if they broke the covenant ? Small sample

“Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: and they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever. Because thou servedst not the LORD thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things; therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee. The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand; a nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young: and he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee. And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE Lord THY GOD; then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance. And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God. And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:45-52, 58-59, 62-64‬ ‭KJV‬‬


what did they choose ? And did god just say forget about what I said would happen ?

his answer was to make all things new including a new covenant and promised land. We need to be born again because he’s making all things new taking parts of a corrupt world and redeeming them for a better one that’s not corruptable

You asked: What did they choose? And did God just say forget about what I said would happen?
My answer: What you posted above already happened. The question now is, did you just forget what God said would happen after that?

• Amos 9:15 — "And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God."
• Jeremiah 30:3 — "For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it."
• Jeremiah 31:28 — "And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD."
• Jeremiah 12:15 — "And it shall come to pass, after that I have plucked them out I will return, and have compassion on them, and will bring them again, every man to his heritage, and every man to his land."
• Jeremiah 24:6 — "For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up."
• Jeremiah 32:41 — "Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul."
• Jeremiah 31:4–5 — "I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. I will build thee again, and thou shalt be built; O thou virgin Israel: thou shalt be brought forth with music of tabrets."
• Jeremiah 23:3 — "For I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have compassion on the dwellings of him; and the city shall be built upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain in her proper place."
• Ezekiel 36:24 — "For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you together from all countries, and will bring you into your own land."
• Deuteronomy 30:5 — "The LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers."

 

[Revelation1v8]

To me all of Revelation is chronological, and yes you get some in-between Chapters that combine past and future events like you said, like overview chapters. But when I get to chapters 19 and 20 that's when my chronological view falls apart, and I look at the different views out there about the 1000 years and none of them are without inconsistences. So I concluded they must be parallel chapters, and that I will never fully understand what the 1000 years is suppose to represent

Yes it is like that movie Inception, a dream within a dream lol

And unlike a previous post by someone attacking me for not knowing everything like they supposedly do, I do not have a problem saying I do not know. Id rather say that than pin my colours to a view just because it is the accepted view, and by doing that ignore the errors in the view.

The problem with the mention of the 1,000 years in Revelation 20 is that you have to refer to the entire Old Testament to pick up what happens during that 1,000 years, like Isaiah 65. There are a lot of future events outlined throughout the Old Testament that have not been fulfilled. The best start would be to pull up a list from A.I. on all of the books that talk about the period of peace on earth (Millennial Kingdom) because the Old Testament never directly calls it the 1,000 years. You have to piece it all together.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jesus said in John 3:3 that unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God

Your message contradicts what Jesus said. FYI, all OT saints got born again once that became available thru Jesus

“FYI, all OT saints got born again once that became available thru Jesus”

this should be in scripture if it’s believable I’ve never seen it personally , but of course if it’s there that would correct my thinking ….I try to always distinguish between what’s in scripture and what isn’t

 

[cv5]

That's why the book of Revelation is so hard to interpret. There are many parallels describing past events and then future events together. It's like trying to decipher a dream within another dream.

Frankly, the Book of Revelation is very straighforward and easy to interpret.
The tricky part is to recognize the "summary chapters" from the rest.

The pre-rapture Church age is shown in Chapters 2& 3.
The now raptured mystery Bride Church is shown in Chapters 4 & 5.....and nowhere else between chapters 6 thru 18.
Because of course they have been raptured before the 70th week time of Jacobs trouble ever starts.

Matching precisely the 12 step Hebrew wedding protocol.
As does all of scripture.

Question: do you see the RT's or supercessionists or preterists or historicists proclaiming how their dogma matches the 7 Feasts of YHVH? Do they ever discuss how the conquest of Canaan matches the Book of Revelation events? Neither do I.

But we futurist dispensationalists know perfectly well that legit accurate Biblical eschatology does and exactly how it does

Oh and BTW, the conquest of Canaan by Joshua aka Yahoshua aka Yeshua took.....SEVEN YEARS.

 

[Churchgoer]

“FYI, all OT saints got born again once that became available thru Jesus”

this should be in scripture if it’s believable I’ve never seen it personally , but of course if it’s there that would correct my thinking ….I try to always distinguish between what’s in scripture and what isn’t

When Jesus say no one see the kingdom of God unless born again, it is both ot and nt.

Jesus is YHVH. By faith, through grace. From ot to nt.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You asked: What did they choose? And did God just say forget about what I said would happen?
My answer: What you posted above already happened. The question now is, did you just forget what God said would happen after that?

• Amos 9:15 — "And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God."
• Jeremiah 30:3 — "For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it."
• Jeremiah 31:28 — "And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD."
• Jeremiah 12:15 — "And it shall come to pass, after that I have plucked them out I will return, and have compassion on them, and will bring them again, every man to his heritage, and every man to his land."
• Jeremiah 24:6 — "For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up."
• Jeremiah 32:41 — "Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul."
• Jeremiah 31:4–5 — "I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. I will build thee again, and thou shalt be built; O thou virgin Israel: thou shalt be brought forth with music of tabrets."
• Jeremiah 23:3 — "For I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have compassion on the dwellings of him; and the city shall be built upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain in her proper place."
• Ezekiel 36:24 — "For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you together from all countries, and will bring you into your own land."
• Deuteronomy 30:5 — "The LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers."

“The question now is, did you just forget what God said would happen after that?“

not at all I’ve said the entire time that Israel’s restoration will happen like god said it would ….the difference is how ?

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


….Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10, 13‬ ‭

(My view) is that Israel’s restoration and promises pertain to what god was promising them and will eventually happen here when all things are restored

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;

and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


i hope this clears up the fact that I’ve always said the promises god did make them Will sirely come to pass but his way on a new earth …..

Not by world powers insisting the troublesome jews take the occupants lands and trying themselves to restore gods plan like happened after World War Two but gods way where he promised the faithful he would make them thier own land truly that men like Abraham were looking for in faith

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13, 16‬ ‭KJV

If legendary faithful Hebrews knew this earth wasn’t thier promised land …why don’t other people ? Ever notice that Abraham never made his home in the land of Canaan ? He was looking for gods promised land that he would build for Abraham ….. not looking at the dust of this cursed earth or land that greedy men fight and kill for


But rather he just sojourned in tents …. Like a pilgrim . It’s because he understood the covenant god made with him when he called him to look up and count the stars ….Abraham wanted to be part of Gods real plan for him and his descendants

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

 

[Pilgrimshope]

When Jesus say no one see the kingdom of God unless born again, it is both ot and nt.

Jesus is YHVH. By faith, through grace. From ot to nt.

Yes you’ve expressed your opinion I’m more about what scripture actually says though conjecture doesn’t really impact my thinking much. If you know where those scriptures are I’d be happy to read them ……

 

[Revelation1v8]

Now I'm just going to throw out some ideas on my continued effort to make ALL of the scriptures fit together.

I keep thinking about my prior conversation with OMC on the Ezekiel temple (house) described in Ezekiel, chapters 40 through 48. There are many mentions of God/Jesus reigning over Jerusalem from a "High Mountain". (Ezekiel 17:22–24, Ezekiel 20:40, Ezekiel 40:2)

Then we discussed the water than ran down under the temple/house in Ezekiel 47:1-2.

1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.

2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.

Much of Ezekiel 47 mirrors Revelation 22, but there are some differences I'll mention later.

Revelation 22:1 - And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

This is where I'm going to throw out the idea that the "new heaven and the new earth" are separate until they are combined.

While the Bible shows Mt. Zion on both earth and in heaven (depending on the verse), what if it sits right INBETWEEN the new heaven and the new earth.

What if the water that proceeds out of the throne of God in the new heaven runs down to the new earth and under the temple/house?

What makes Ezekiel different from Revelation is the mention of Sabbath Days and New Moons.

Here's what Ezekiel 46:1 says...

46 Thus saith the Lord God; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

So, this can't be the New Jerusalem/Heaven because Revelation tells us that there is no need for the sun or the moon AND it says that the gate never shuts because it's never night.

Revelation 21:23-25

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

So, my final thought on this is that the promises to the House of Israel/House of Jacob/House of David are fulfilled on the new earth in the land God/Jesus always promised to them. Isaiah 65 shows that people will be living righteous lives in peace and will be living hundreds of years old to repopulate and replenish Abraham's ethnic seed before the New Jerusalem/Heaven comes down to join the earth.

This must be why the gates of the New Jerusalem/Heaven are never shut. It's not just because there's never a night time, it's because people will still be coming into the New Jerusalem/Heaven after they die on the new earth.

Once the Millennial Kingdom on the new earth is completed, Satan will be released from the Abyss to gather his final army from Revelation 20 for the battle of Gog & Magog, but God/Jesus will immediately shut them down with fire from Heaven. Satan is thrown into the Lake of Fire. Hell is thrown into the Lake of Fire. Death is thrown into the Lake of Fire. Then we'll see the Great White Throne Judgement take place before the New Jerusalem/Heaven comes down to meet the earth.

So, today's Christians and all Old Testament believers will most likely be waiting in the New Jerusalem/Heaven for the Millennial Kingdom on the new earth to play out before they are combined.

That's the best I can come up with for now.

 

[Revelation1v8]

“The question now is, did you just forget what God said would happen after that?“

not at all I’ve said the entire time that Israel’s restoration will happen like god said it would ….the difference is how ?

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


….Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10, 13‬ ‭

(My view) is that Israel’s restoration and promises pertain to what god was promising them and will eventually happen here when all things are restored

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;

and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


i hope this clears up the fact that I’ve always said the promises god did make them Will sirely come to pass but his way on a new earth …..

Not by world powers insisting the troublesome jews take the occupants lands and trying themselves to restore gods plan like happened after World War Two but gods way where he promised the faithful he would make them thier own land truly that men like Abraham were looking for in faith

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13, 16‬ ‭KJV

If legendary faithful Hebrews knew this earth wasn’t thier promised land …why don’t other people ? Ever notice that Abraham never made his home in the land of Canaan ? He was looking for gods promised land that he would build for Abraham ….. not looking at the dust of this cursed earth or land that greedy men fight and kill for


But rather he just sojourned in tents …. Like a pilgrim . It’s because he understood the covenant god made with him when he called him to look up and count the stars ….Abraham wanted to be part of Gods real plan for him and his descendants

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

Once you read my most recent post, it looks like we're coming closer and closer to an agreement on how this might all go down!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Once you read my most recent post, it looks like we're coming closer and closer to an agreement on how this might all go down!

Yeah lol you’ve “ taught me something at last “