Secret Rapture or Second Coming?

[Psalm1]

I seriously doubt that there are any 'post-trib' adherents who do not understand that - don't know where you got that crazy idea...


I believe you have it backwards...

'post-trib' rapture doctrine is absolutely and unmistakably 100% centered on Christ returning - at the Second Coming of Christ.

'pre-trib' rapture doctrine is put forth as being mostly centered around a '7-year tribulation' idea.

You are actually looking to a future antichrist as the next event.
So no, you are unaware of your own bad situation.

 

[Psalm1]

I thank God that He has opened your eyes to the truth!

You should not applaud his error.
None of you can handle Jesus teaching of 3 comings

All of you postribs cast it down

That is sad

 

[Psalm1]

The purpose of the rapture (one aspect of it) is made very clear in this passage:

Revelation 14:

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. 17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

First, the 'righteous' are removed off of the face of the earth; then, the worldly evil is subjected to the Wrath of God.

We all believe that.
Anything new?

The only thing is you showcased Jewish rapture.

.....and are oblivious to it.

 

[GaryA]

Show me something specific.

I already have - multiple times...

First on the list - read this over and over until you understand the error that has been made by so many:

Seventy Weeks

When you finally sincerely and wholeheartedly agree with every single word under the 'Conclusion' at the end - in the context of all that is written on the page - then come back and tell me of the joy of the transformation of your belief from error to truth - then we can move on to the next thing on the list.

Until then, I do not have much to say - I am tired of beating my head against a brick wall...

Go ahead - cast insults, etc. all you want - just remember:

"I can wait..."

I can wait until God shows you the truth.

You do not get the last word - God does...

 

[Psalm1]

I already have - multiple times...

First on the list - read this over and over until you understand the error that has been made by so many:

Seventy Weeks

When you finally sincerely and wholeheartedly agree with every single word under the 'Conclusion' at the end - in the context of all that is written on the page - then come back and tell me of the joy of the transformation of your belief from error to truth - then we can move on to the next thing on the list.

Until then, I do not have much to say - I am tired of beating my head against a brick wall...

Go ahead - cast insults, etc. all you want - just remember:

"I can wait..."

I can wait until God shows you the truth.

You do not get the last word - God does...

...all that , because I said "show me something specific".

It would have been easier to actually address SOMETHING SPECIFIC.

You do understand that asking for a specific reference should normally be easy....IF YOU COULD ACTUALLY DO IT.

By not knowing your doctrine , you are really wasting everyone's time.

 

[JacobGilbert]

Go back and see all the verses I posted.
Then figure out as I did that you have no basis to claim i did not do so.
That is beyond Ludacrous.


QUOTE
"You can keep claiming post-tribbers don’t understand the bride or the rapture"
I have sat through many many hours of post trib teaching.
And have never, not one time, heard any of them introduce the bride and the bride groom
You can go back check and it simply is not there.
The reason I point that out is because the rapture is the gathering of the bride by the groom.
That is what the rapture is.
Heaven sees all end times through the prism of the bride and the bridegroom.
The post trib doctrine is centered on the tribulation and that doctrine attempts to define;
tribulation.
Great tribulation,
wrath,
the day of the Lord,
the trumpet,
the last Trump,
the seventh trump.
Darby,
LAHAYE,
and other one liners, as the center of its message. ( and those talking points are the heart of that doctrine, plus the dead ancient men ( church fathers), that invented it)
where did that doctrine come from?
Post tribbers will tell you that they're doctrine came from men of the early church.
They showcase that as their foundation.
(So much for the "man centered doctrine claim" you tried to pull. You guys champion that one big time.)

QUOTE
"your take on Revelation 14 and the 144,000 doesn’t prove a pre-trib Church rapture either. The harvest fits at the end."
huh?
that harvest is during the trib.
What you leave out, is that the 144,000 are FIRSTFUIT JEWS.
That means main harvest Jews FOLLOWS.
You are forgetting JESUS is the firsfruits of the church resurrection.
The 144,000 do not fit ANYTHING CONCERNING ANY FIRSTFRUITS OF THE CHURCH...NADA.
They are exactly what the word of God says...FIRSTFRUIT JEWS.
If you read what is written concerning Rev 14, it blows away everything but a pretribb rapture.
Hands down.

Ask yourself why postribbers are replacement theology.
It is because of end times obstacles.

QUOTE
"words of Jesus in Matthew 24:29-31 remain the biggest hurdle for the pre-trib view. That’s not glossing over anything — it’s reading the text straightforwardly"
Huh?
You ever read it??
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Your passages support pretrib.
You posted that AFTER THE TRIB, ANGELS GATHER, ( NOT JESUS) , IN HEAVEN, (NOT EARTH).
Thank you for verses supporting the pretrib rapture.

But by all means keep reading.
Jesus then teaches the pretrib rapture, with "one taken one left before the flood,", and tells them, concerning the preflood coming, to watch and be ready.

Definately two separate comings taught by Jesus.

So you have some homework with matt25and 24,and Rev 14.

There is a ton on Rev 14 i have not even gotten to.

I’ve read all your verses carefully. Claiming I haven’t is just nonsense.


You say Matthew 24:29-31 supports pre-trib? Read it again:


“Immediately after the tribulation… then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds… He shall send His angels with a great trumpet and gather His elect.”


This is Jesus visibly coming after the tribulation with a trumpet to gather His people. It matches 1 Thess 4 exactly. There’s no secret rapture years earlier. You’re forcing two comings where Jesus taught one.


“One taken, one left”? In Noah’s day the wicked were taken in judgment. You completely flipped it.


Revelation 14 harvest is during the tribulation. The 144,000 being Jewish firstfruits doesn’t prove the church was raptured earlier — you’re just adding that. It fits the end-time harvest fine.


The Bride point is weak. Post-tribbers understand the Groom returns once for His bride after she endures, with the supper in Rev 19. Your secret pre-trib snatch isn’t in the text — it’s a 1800s Darby invention.


Daniel 9’s 70th week was fulfilled in Christ and 70 AD. No future 7-year clock.


You keep twisting plain words to protect a new system. Jesus gave one clear sequence after the tribulation. Deal with the text.

 

[Psalm1]

I’ve read all your verses carefully. Claiming I haven’t is just nonsense.


You say Matthew 24:29-31 supports pre-trib? Read it again:


“Immediately after the tribulation… then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds… He shall send His angels with a great trumpet and gather His elect.”


This is Jesus visibly coming after the tribulation with a trumpet to gather His people. It matches 1 Thess 4 exactly. There’s no secret rapture years earlier. You’re forcing two comings where Jesus taught one.


“One taken, one left”? In Noah’s day the wicked were taken in judgment. You completely flipped it.


Revelation 14 harvest is during the tribulation. The 144,000 being Jewish firstfruits doesn’t prove the church was raptured earlier — you’re just adding that. It fits the end-time harvest fine.


The Bride point is weak. Post-tribbers understand the Groom returns once for His bride after she endures, with the supper in Rev 19. Your secret pre-trib snatch isn’t in the text — it’s a 1800s Darby invention.


Daniel 9’s 70th week was fulfilled in Christ and 70 AD. No future 7-year clock.


You keep twisting plain words to protect a new system. Jesus gave one clear sequence after the tribulation. Deal with the text.

SMH.
REREAD IT.
Angels gather IN HEAVEN AFTER THE GT.

You don't need to minimize me personally. Just debate WHAT IS WRITTEN.
RE READ IT.

Then you get mat 24 inverted and claim i do what you are OBVIOISLY doing.

Reread it real slow. No modifying, no omissions.
Read it for the first time.
Mat 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

"BEFORE THE FOOD" IS THE SETTING WITH NOAH.
THEN THE SETTING IS EVERYDAY LIFE, COMMERCE, NORMAL LIFE, AND PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE.
( stay focused)
39;And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40;Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Now. That word "taken" in the Greek is "taken to a good place"

Now...understand if we play out your theory of "a wicked person rapture pretrib/ preflood"...you are going to need half the world wicked and half born again. ( one taken, one left)
But how does that possibly work for you???
A strange theory of a wicked people rapture preflood??????

Again reread it without the spin, changes and omissions.

You actually changed both dynamics in mat 24's two separate comings.
Why?

 

[Psalm1]

I’ve read all your verses carefully. Claiming I haven’t is just nonsense.


You say Matthew 24:29-31 supports pre-trib? Read it again:


“Immediately after the tribulation… then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds… He shall send His angels with a great trumpet and gather His elect.”


This is Jesus visibly coming after the tribulation with a trumpet to gather His people. It matches 1 Thess 4 exactly. There’s no secret rapture years earlier. You’re forcing two comings where Jesus taught one.


“One taken, one left”? In Noah’s day the wicked were taken in judgment. You completely flipped it.


Revelation 14 harvest is during the tribulation. The 144,000 being Jewish firstfruits doesn’t prove the church was raptured earlier — you’re just adding that. It fits the end-time harvest fine.


The Bride point is weak. Post-tribbers understand the Groom returns once for His bride after she endures, with the supper in Rev 19. Your secret pre-trib snatch isn’t in the text — it’s a 1800s Darby invention.


Daniel 9’s 70th week was fulfilled in Christ and 70 AD. No future 7-year clock.


You keep twisting plain words to protect a new system. Jesus gave one clear sequence after the tribulation. Deal with the text.

Quote
"Revelation 14 harvest is during the tribulation. The 144,000 being Jewish firstfruits doesn’t prove the church was raptured earlier — you’re just adding that. It fits the end-time harvest fine"

Nope nope nope.
Rev 14 doesn't just go away because you have never unpacked it.

Most postribbers, in fact, are replacement theology because of rev 14's Jewish harvest.
A Jewish harvest during the trib.

You guys painted your selves into a corner big time.
You do realize that if Rev 14 harvest PRECEDES 1 THESS 4 harvest ( which is what you guys believe), then Jesus or Paul is confused.
You guys now have the dead in Christ resurrected AFTER THE LIVING.

You see that????

See where that theory leads?????

 

[JacobGilbert]

Go back and see all the verses I posted.
Then figure out as I did that you have no basis to claim i did not do so.
That is beyond Ludacrous.


QUOTE
"You can keep claiming post-tribbers don’t understand the bride or the rapture"
I have sat through many many hours of post trib teaching.
And have never, not one time, heard any of them introduce the bride and the bride groom
You can go back check and it simply is not there.
The reason I point that out is because the rapture is the gathering of the bride by the groom.
That is what the rapture is.
Heaven sees all end times through the prism of the bride and the bridegroom.
The post trib doctrine is centered on the tribulation and that doctrine attempts to define;
tribulation.
Great tribulation,
wrath,
the day of the Lord,
the trumpet,
the last Trump,
the seventh trump.
Darby,
LAHAYE,
and other one liners, as the center of its message. ( and those talking points are the heart of that doctrine, plus the dead ancient men ( church fathers), that invented it)
where did that doctrine come from?
Post tribbers will tell you that they're doctrine came from men of the early church.
They showcase that as their foundation.
(So much for the "man centered doctrine claim" you tried to pull. You guys champion that one big time.)

QUOTE
"your take on Revelation 14 and the 144,000 doesn’t prove a pre-trib Church rapture either. The harvest fits at the end."
huh?
that harvest is during the trib.
What you leave out, is that the 144,000 are FIRSTFUIT JEWS.
That means main harvest Jews FOLLOWS.
You are forgetting JESUS is the firsfruits of the church resurrection.
The 144,000 do not fit ANYTHING CONCERNING ANY FIRSTFRUITS OF THE CHURCH...NADA.
They are exactly what the word of God says...FIRSTFRUIT JEWS.
If you read what is written concerning Rev 14, it blows away everything but a pretribb rapture.
Hands down.

Ask yourself why postribbers are replacement theology.
It is because of end times obstacles.

QUOTE
"words of Jesus in Matthew 24:29-31 remain the biggest hurdle for the pre-trib view. That’s not glossing over anything — it’s reading the text straightforwardly"
Huh?
You ever read it??
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Your passages support pretrib.
You posted that AFTER THE TRIB, ANGELS GATHER, ( NOT JESUS) , IN HEAVEN, (NOT EARTH).
Thank you for verses supporting the pretrib rapture.

But by all means keep reading.
Jesus then teaches the pretrib rapture, with "one taken one left before the flood,", and tells them, concerning the preflood coming, to watch and be ready.

Definately two separate comings taught by Jesus.

So you have some homework with matt25and 24,and Rev 14.

There is a ton on Rev 14 i have not even gotten to.

SMH.
REREAD IT.
Angels gather IN HEAVEN AFTER THE GT.

You don't need to minimize me personally. Just debate WHAT IS WRITTEN.
RE READ IT.

Then you get mat 24 inverted and claim i do what you are OBVIOISLY doing.

Reread it real slow. No modifying, no omissions.
Read it for the first time.
Mat 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

"BEFORE THE FOOD" IS THE SETTING WITH NOAH.
THEN THE SETTING IS EVERYDAY LIFE, COMMERCE, NORMAL LIFE, AND PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE.
( stay focused)
39;And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40;Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Now. That word "taken" in the Greek is "taken to a good place"

Now...understand if we play out your theory of "a wicked person rapture pretrib/ preflood"...you are going to need half the world wicked and half born again. ( one taken, one left)
But how does that possibly work for you???
A strange theory of a wicked people rapture preflood??????

Again reread it without the spin, changes and omissions.

You actually changed both dynamics in mat 24's two separate comings.
Why?

Let’s actually reread Matthew 24 together real slow word for word no skipping or twisting anything.


Jesus says it’ll be just like the days of Noah. People were eating drinking getting married going about normal life right up until the day Noah went into the ark. Then the flood came and took them all away. Who got taken? The wicked. Who got left behind safe on the earth? Noah and his family.


Then right after that Jesus says so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Two guys in the field one taken the other left. Two women grinding at the mill one taken the other left.


The taken matches the flood story sudden judgment on the people who weren’t ready. The ones left are the ones preserved like Noah.


You keep saying the Greek word for taken means taken to a good place. But look at the context right there in the passage the flood took them all away in destruction. That’s judgment not rescue. Turning it into some pre flood wicked people rapture just flips the whole thing upside down and doesn’t fit what Jesus actually said.


You also pointed out the angels gathering after the Great Tribulation. That’s exactly what Matthew 24 describes at the visible return of Christ not before.


If we’re not gonna read the scripture straight step by step exactly as it’s written without adding our own spin then honestly there’s no point in debating this. The plain text is clear. You’re only embarrassing yourself.

 

[Adstar]

There is a huge problem when;
1) the verses that make a postrib rapture impossible.
2) all the pretrib rapture verses POINTING TO a pretrib rapture.
3) seeing end times through a wrong prism, then seeing verses that don't apply, and making them apply.

Once the bible is viewed honestly, error decreases hugely.

IOW, Once an impossibility is discovered, normally we would take that "test fitted concept" impossibility off the table.

************5 Impossibilities ************
1) your doctrine has the dead in Christ NOT RISING FIRST by omitting Rev 14 gathering DURING THE TRIB...BEFORE YOUR RAPTURE AFTER THE 7 YR TRIB.
( And you guys take that impossibility off the table)
2) the ac kills all refusing the mark.
The ac is given power over the saints.
The saints OVERCOME VIA MARTYRDOM.
( ALL LISTED IN REV 12 AND 13)
( MAKES "GOING THROUGH IT" IMPOSSIBLE)
3) The virgin parable alone makes postrib rapture impossible
(Why do you think postribbers change it's components)
4) Jesus taught pretrib rapture 4 separate times.
5) the setting BY JESUS, at the rapture is OPPOSITE your setting.
( EXACTLY OPPOSITE!!!!)

Your doctrine is IMPOSSIBLE

100% IMPOSSIBLE.

Well of course i disagree with your interpretation.. So be it..

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

What are people doing to prepare for their preferred rapture?

I think the great tribulation is getting close so that we are the generation that will live through it.

So please talk about your preparation whether you're pre- or post-trib.

 

[Squigglylines]

Definitely too late for much planning. In fact there were members of this very forum who were describing in great detail that the UAP's were using a clear vacuum void to travel through your atmosphere several years before it was disclosed to the public if you compare the dates of their post to when the news was made public that is. I guess the internet has a way of keeping everyone looking forward in time and so very few think to look backward in time to see if any of their members who have passed away were correct about what was taking place. For sure though it's far too late to play catch up now that these events are already unfolding so those who will fall will and those who will not will not.

 

[Psalm1]

Let’s actually reread Matthew 24 together real slow word for word no skipping or twisting anything.


Jesus says it’ll be just like the days of Noah. People were eating drinking getting married going about normal life right up until the day Noah went into the ark. Then the flood came and took them all away. Who got taken? The wicked. Who got left behind safe on the earth? Noah and his family.


Then right after that Jesus says so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Two guys in the field one taken the other left. Two women grinding at the mill one taken the other left.


The taken matches the flood story sudden judgment on the people who weren’t ready. The ones left are the ones preserved like Noah.


You keep saying the Greek word for taken means taken to a good place. But look at the context right there in the passage the flood took them all away in destruction. That’s judgment not rescue. Turning it into some pre flood wicked people rapture just flips the whole thing upside down and doesn’t fit what Jesus actually said.


You also pointed out the angels gathering after the Great Tribulation. That’s exactly what Matthew 24 describes at the visible return of Christ not before.


If we’re not gonna read the scripture straight step by step exactly as it’s written without adding our own spin then honestly there’s no point in debating this. The plain text is clear. You’re only embarrassing yourself.

That bible is frustrating to you because the actual wording is so uncomfortable huh?

show me ANYTHING I list in mat 24 that IS NOT RIGHT THERE.

It SAYS half are taken, half left.
Your model has a wicked person rapture before the flood.
YOUR model, has half the world wicked, and half righteous.
(Your invented PRETRIB RAPTURE OF WICKED PEOPLE).
Don't blame me for a step by step analysis.
You painted yourself into a corner.
Look..TEST FIT THEORIES PRIOR TO RUNNING OFF HALF COCKED

QUOTE
"You also pointed out the angels gathering after the Great Tribulation. That’s exactly what Matthew 24 describes at the visible return of Christ not before."
Again...not me..the bible...you are disagreeing with God's word.
Re read it.
MAT 24
1) "JESUS SENDS"
( PSSSST...THAT MEANS HE STAYS AND THEY GO)
2) "ANGELS GO AND GATHER"
( PSSST....WITH NO JESUS IN THE PICTURE)
3) " IN HEAVEN"
( HELLO...ALL THAT IS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL, AND NOT THE RAPTURE)

Maybe you are wrong and the bible is correct?

QUOTE
"Let’s actually reread Matthew 24 together real slow word for word no skipping or twisting anything.
Jesus says it’ll be just like the days of Noah. People were eating drinking getting married going about normal life right up until the day Noah went into the ark. Then the flood came and took them all away. Who got taken? The wicked. Who got left behind safe on the earth? Noah and his family."

lol.
It is AN ANALOGY.
HELLO....in the rapture there will be no:
*Noah
*Boat
*Flood
*8 people
*All the world's WICKED PEOPLE population destroyed.
*Animals saved.
*HALF of earth's population wicked, half righteous

You..."All earth's wicked people population will be destroyed...pretrib"

Huh?
You are unaware it is an analogy Jesus is using?

QUOTE
"The taken matches the flood story sudden judgment on the people who weren’t ready. The ones left are the ones preserved like Noah."

Again, you are pushing your made up, "half the earth's population taken and destroyed, every person on the planet, except believers, pretrib".
Flat out bizarre.
Again, Jesus said "half are taken".
So your model has half of earth's population saved/half wicked.

Again the setting is "BEFORE THE FLOOD"
( You are unaware your postrib doctrine needs Noah gathered POST FLOOD?)
( You are unaware that YOUR MODEL OF A POSTRIB RAPTURE , has the opposite setting of Jesus analogy????)

*BEFORE THE FLOOD
*ONE TAKEN/ ONE LEFT
*TAKEN TO A GOOD PLACE ( LOOK IT UP IN THE GREEK)
* NOAH GATHERED BEFORE THE FLOOD.
* HALF A GROUP TAKEN/ HALF LEFT BEFORE THE FLOOD
What a coincidence.
ALL the facts point to the pretrib rapture doctrine...and NONE support your theory.


Absolutely nothing fits your theory.
Nada.

 

[Psalm1]

Let’s actually reread Matthew 24 together real slow word for word no skipping or twisting anything.


Jesus says it’ll be just like the days of Noah. People were eating drinking getting married going about normal life right up until the day Noah went into the ark. Then the flood came and took them all away. Who got taken? The wicked. Who got left behind safe on the earth? Noah and his family.


Then right after that Jesus says so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Two guys in the field one taken the other left. Two women grinding at the mill one taken the other left.


The taken matches the flood story sudden judgment on the people who weren’t ready. The ones left are the ones preserved like Noah.


You keep saying the Greek word for taken means taken to a good place. But look at the context right there in the passage the flood took them all away in destruction. That’s judgment not rescue. Turning it into some pre flood wicked people rapture just flips the whole thing upside down and doesn’t fit what Jesus actually said.


You also pointed out the angels gathering after the Great Tribulation. That’s exactly what Matthew 24 describes at the visible return of Christ not before.


If we’re not gonna read the scripture straight step by step exactly as it’s written without adding our own spin then honestly there’s no point in debating this. The plain text is clear. You’re only embarrassing yourself.

Lol
QUOTE
"You keep saying the Greek word for taken means taken to a good place. But look at the context right there in the passage the flood took them all away in destruction. That’s judgment not rescue. Turning it into some pre flood wicked people rapture just flips the whole thing upside down and doesn’t fit what Jesus actually said."

Nope
I am QUOTING EXACTLY what it says.
Your investigation is basically no investigation.
Look it up and see i am right.
Look up "taken" in the Greek.

NOW LOOK UP "TOOK"
2 different words.

You do not know what you are talking about.

Incredible spin job, hoping to make a pretrib gathering of mat 24 into a wicked people pretrib rapture.....that is NOWHERE IN SCRIPTURE.

I can see WHY you are unwilling to debate.
You are getting owned big time.

 

[Psalm1]

Let’s actually reread Matthew 24 together real slow word for word no skipping or twisting anything.


Jesus says it’ll be just like the days of Noah. People were eating drinking getting married going about normal life right up until the day Noah went into the ark. Then the flood came and took them all away. Who got taken? The wicked. Who got left behind safe on the earth? Noah and his family.


Then right after that Jesus says so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Two guys in the field one taken the other left. Two women grinding at the mill one taken the other left.


The taken matches the flood story sudden judgment on the people who weren’t ready. The ones left are the ones preserved like Noah.


You keep saying the Greek word for taken means taken to a good place. But look at the context right there in the passage the flood took them all away in destruction. That’s judgment not rescue. Turning it into some pre flood wicked people rapture just flips the whole thing upside down and doesn’t fit what Jesus actually said.


You also pointed out the angels gathering after the Great Tribulation. That’s exactly what Matthew 24 describes at the visible return of Christ not before.


If we’re not gonna read the scripture straight step by step exactly as it’s written without adding our own spin then honestly there’s no point in debating this. The plain text is clear. You’re only embarrassing yourself.

QUOTE
"If we’re not gonna read the scripture straight step by step exactly as it’s written without adding our own spin then honestly there’s no point in debating this. The plain text is clear. You’re only embarrassing yourself."


Take any, or all of my points, and SHOW ME they are not precise and factual.

I can't wait.

 

[Psalm1]

I’ve read all your verses carefully. Claiming I haven’t is just nonsense.


You say Matthew 24:29-31 supports pre-trib? Read it again:


“Immediately after the tribulation… then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds… He shall send His angels with a great trumpet and gather His elect.”


This is Jesus visibly coming after the tribulation with a trumpet to gather His people. It matches 1 Thess 4 exactly. There’s no secret rapture years earlier. You’re forcing two comings where Jesus taught one.


“One taken, one left”? In Noah’s day the wicked were taken in judgment. You completely flipped it.


Revelation 14 harvest is during the tribulation. The 144,000 being Jewish firstfruits doesn’t prove the church was raptured earlier — you’re just adding that. It fits the end-time harvest fine.


The Bride point is weak. Post-tribbers understand the Groom returns once for His bride after she endures, with the supper in Rev 19. Your secret pre-trib snatch isn’t in the text — it’s a 1800s Darby invention.


Daniel 9’s 70th week was fulfilled in Christ and 70 AD. No future 7-year clock.


You keep twisting plain words to protect a new system. Jesus gave one clear sequence after the tribulation. Deal with the text.

QUOTE
"“Immediately after the tribulation… then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds… He shall send His angels with a great trumpet and gather His elect.”
This is Jesus visibly coming after the tribulation with a trumpet to gather His people. It matches 1 Thess 4 exactly. There’s no secret rapture years earlier. You’re forcing two comings where Jesus taught one."

**********the actual bible***********
Mat 24
(without the ommissins and spin)
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Amen 100 %correct.
After the trib, angels gather saints in heaven, and Jesus returns with those saints in heaven on white horses.
Never have had a problem with it and never will.

Pssst...your doctrine inserts a rapture and resurrection AT THE SECOND COMING that is NOT THERE.

Look you got what? One verse?
And it is blown apart masterfully by God's word.
One verse?
A verse you guys spin?
Really?

 

[Psalm1]

A question arises. 3 actually.
1) is there a wicked person rapture pretrib.... as postribbers claim.
2) is half earth's population wicked and half righteous pretrib...as is the postribber's claim
3) is Jesus sitting on a cloud in Rev 14:14 holding a sickle, the same as Jesus with saints on millions of Horses,in rev 19, in heaven, on their way to slaughter millions of people ?.....as postribbers skip.

 

[Psalm1]

Well of course i disagree with your interpretation.. So be it..

The facts are laid out.
I see you do not care to contest the bible, but nonetheless hold a different "interpretation" of the facts.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Definitely too late for much planning. In fact there were members of this very forum who were describing in great detail that the UAP's were using a clear vacuum void to travel through your atmosphere several years before it was disclosed to the public if you compare the dates of their post to when the news was made public that is. I guess the internet has a way of keeping everyone looking forward in time and so very few think to look backward in time to see if any of their members who have passed away were correct about what was taking place. For sure though it's far too late to play catch up now that these events are already unfolding so those who will fall will and those who will not will not.

What are UAP's? Unidentified Alien People?

I agree that people are already set on what they believe and God will let them, seeing as He can't convince them about what He said in John 6:39 and other Bible passages. He knows they won't be ready to face the great tribulation and they will cave in to take the mark of the beast AND betray the ones Jesus has kept and who will resist the antichrist.

But the Bible says the people who belong to God will be strong and do exploits (Daniel 11:32). Since we know that most of us will be martyred, we have nothing to lose to serve God in the great tribulation in the boldest way!

 

[Dino246]

Noah was gathered pretrib into the ark.
ark = type of heaven.
Noah spent THE ENTIRE FLOOD ( 7YR TRIB) miles above the earth IN THE HEAVENS.
Noah RETURNED postrib BACK TO EARTH AFTER THE TRIB.

In what vile corruption of Scripture does it hint that “Noah spent the entire flood miles above the earth in the heavens“ before being “returned postrib (sic) back to earth”?