Shall we sin that grace may abound?

[wattie]

OSAS believers and Calvinists couch their blaming God in nice phrases but they do ultimately blame God for the things they are responsible for.

Only the ones that don't repent of what God has against them will lose their salvation because they choose not to. God won't forgive if a person doesn't repent. This is basic Christianity 101.

Luke 13:3 "Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

Check the context around Luke 13:3, it's got some very particular application there.

 

[Burn1986]

We know we are saved in the here and now as the Bible plainly tells us. Some here think we can never know. They are confused and like to confuse others.

Yeah, sometimes the Devil beats people up. I think that’s where baptism comes into play. It is a marker to say “On this date I was baptized and saved. Whether I feel it or not, I’m gonna trust God with it.”

 

[Freed18]

You seem to have poor reading comprehension skills. Read my post over again.

I was focused on this..."Because of Christ's finished work, God declares believers righteous. We are counted as sinless in our standing before Him — not because we've achieved moral perfection, but because Christ's righteousness is credited to us (2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 5:1; 8:1). This is a the reality, that "there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.""
Are you, or are you not, actually morally perfect after repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins?
You make it look like His righteousness is put on us, in spite of our sinning.

And this..."This does not mean believers never stumble. John himself says, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves" (1 John 1:8) and "If anyone does sin, we have an advocate" (1 John 2:1)
John is addressing those still walking in darkness, not those who walk in God-the light.

Believers never stumble !
Those accreditted with the righteousness of God are as righteous as God.
It is written..."Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." (1 John 3:6-7)

 

[Freed18]

John writes that "no one born of God makes a practice of sinning… he cannot keep on sinning."

This isn't talking about being sinless, The verse rules out a lifestyle of sin, not a single act of sin. The born-of-God person still stumbles occasionally. What he can't do is make stumbling his whole walk.

In other words, sin is no longer the settled direction of his life.

I feel that some man's addition of the word "practice", is a devilish accommodation for more sinning.
God's seed CANNOT EVER bring forth liars, thieves, adulterers, or murderers.

 

[wattie]

I feel that some man's addition of the word "practice", is a devilish accommodation for more sinning.
God's seed CANNOT EVER bring forth liars, thieves, adulterers, or murderers.

Guess David was never converted then. He was an adulterer and murderer. He had a relationship with God before this.

 

[Freed18]

Guess David was never converted then. He was an adulterer and murderer. He had a relationship with God before this.

Of course David wasn't converted yet, as it would be hundreds of years until there was anything to convert to.

 

[wattie]

@Freed18

Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness, before he offered up his son Isaac.

Job believed in a Redeemer.

David believed in a Redeemer.

Jesus said ..search the scriptures (old testament) for in them think ye have eternal life.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Well, I don't know who or what you are calling God here, but when a person posts what scripture disagrees with, they are wrong. You have done that many times, especially in the thread by your friend vassal.


That is what I wrote. Why are you so upset about it?


Why do you try to create false assumptions about others? That is bearing false witness. I choose to believe scripture and that tells me I am not condemmed but here we have a 'believer', you, making things up about me. Not cool.

You posted far more than scripture so you should post the source of the notes.

Check the context around Luke 13:3, it's got some very particular application there.

I was focused on this..."Because of Christ's finished work, God declares believers righteous. We are counted as sinless in our standing before Him — not because we've achieved moral perfection, but because Christ's righteousness is credited to us (2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 5:1; 8:1). This is a the reality, that "there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.""
Are you, or are you not, actually morally perfect after repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins?
You make it look like His righteousness is put on us, in spite of our sinning.

And this..."This does not mean believers never stumble. John himself says, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves" (1 John 1:8) and "If anyone does sin, we have an advocate" (1 John 2:1)
John is addressing those still walking in darkness, not those who walk in God-the light.

Believers never stumble !
Those accreditted with the righteousness of God are as righteous as God.
It is written..."Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." (1 John 3:6-7)

I feel that some man's addition of the word "practice", is a devilish accommodation for more sinning.
God's seed CANNOT EVER bring forth liars, thieves, adulterers, or murderers.

If you all say so.

I posted what God wanted posted and it will reach the people He wants to teach from it. It wasn't meant for you. It won't matter if you oppose it because His word is does not return void and will accomplish what He has set.

God bless!

 

[ScooterJackson]

Precious friend, if so, then why do you not understand The Plain And Clear Teachings of
The Holy Spirit about God's Eternal Salvation, Under "The Revelation Of The Mystery" and
God's Pure Grace?:

Precious friend, WHY do you continue to ignore the whole counsel of God rejecting His warnings to Christians?

Romans 11:21,22 - For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

2 Peter 2:20 (Companion Scripture - Matthew 12:43-45)
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Matthew 12:43-45 (Companion Scripture - 2 Peter 2:20)
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Hebrews 3:12
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

*A person cannot depart from something they were never a part of to begin with
*Notice that this is speaking to "brethren" so this is a warning from the Lord to Christians.

1 Timothy 4:1,2 - Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

*A person cannot depart from the faith is they were never in the faith begin with

2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Galatians 2:17 - But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Romans 6:16 - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

According to God's Word, it's very possible for someone to get born again and then fall away and not be accepted by the Lord in the end meaning they spend eternity in hell Some go back to being workers of iniquity after having gotten born again.

2 Timothy 2:12 - If we deny Him, He also will deny us

 

[ScooterJackson]

Of course.

Really? Christians can live in sin and it's all good?

Keeping the law aka "repent of sins" is what the pharisees taught the people.

Jesus told the lady caught in adultery to go and sin no more?
Does this mean Jesus was a false teacher like the pharisees then?

Do you reject all the passage below as being false even though they are taught in God's Word?

Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Godly sorrow is the stronger of the 2 references since it leads to "repentance to salvation not to be repented of"

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Hebrews 10:28-31
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Really? Christians can live in sin and it's all good?

There is NONE good, no not one. Romans 3:10

Doesn't this apply to everyone but the Lord?

Jesus told the lady caught in adultery to go and sin no more?
Does this mean Jesus was a false teacher like the pharisees then?

You can't ignore the multitude of passages where He clearly rebukes the Pharisees, scribes and Sadducees for the fake gospel they were misleading their people by with a quote to a a guilty woman who He forgave. The Lord said what? Neither do I condemn you.
This He said first.
Then He said, go and sin no more.
This was not the gospel of salvation.
Not every time Jesus, John the Baptist and the disciples spoke was every statement a salvation command. There are hundreds of commands in the Bible and we all sin more often than we'd like to admit. That sin of adultery had major consequences that brings serious judgement.
The Lord however forgave her even though she did absolutely nothing to work for that.
He told her to sin no more in context that she was destroying her life with that heinous sin.
Likewise, we should all do likewise.

Do you reject all the passage below as being false even though they are taught in God's Word?

I don't reject any of the king James Bible, so please don't assume that just because you disagree with me on salvation.
You can pepper me with verses all day, but I have work to do. The works I do are not to keep me saved however; they are just a part of being in the family of God.
When I was born into my family, I did not choose that. Mom went through the labor.
As I grew, I was provided commands and responsibilities as a son of my parents. In spite of the fact that I often failed, I was still a family member. There were consequences but I was still a son. It's not a whole lot different with God. We don't do good works to get to be in the family, neither to maintain our position there.
Jesus said as much to a Pharisee Nicodemus in john 3.

Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Godly sorrow is the stronger of the 2 references since it leads to "repentance to salvation not to be repented of"

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Hebrews 10:28-31
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Luke 18

 

[ScooterJackson]

There is NONE good, no not one. Romans 3:10

Doesn't this apply to everyone but the Lord?

In Isaiah 53:6 we see - All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all

This was true when spoken back then, but is no longer true today.
For that to be true today, under the New Covenant, then ALL continue to reject the Lord and His plan of salvation would be a total and complete failure.

The Lord said what? Neither do I condemn you.

Explain away as you may try, the Lord's standard is still the same as He told her - sin no more!

Those who have been born again and filled with the Holy Spirit should have power over sin as to not be living in sin but it's always funny (not in a good way) that so many advocate for continuing in sin. They even go around telling everyone that are still sinners that sin every day ion thought word and deed and they claim when they were created by the Lord that God put sin in them and they are born to be sinners who could never stop sinning.

These people are tares, aka reformed theology and catholics

1 Corinthians 15:34 - Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1 John 2:1 - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

The Lord however forgave her even though she did absolutely nothing to work for that.

So even though Jesus instructed he to go and sin no more, it's all good if she continues in sin?

I don't reject any of the king James Bible, so please don't assume that just because you disagree with me on salvation.

I agree with the Lord on salvation not religious minded people who don't accept the whole counsel of God.

The works I do are not to keep me saved however

On the other hand if you were to walk after the flesh you would no longer be in right standing with the Lord.

So your actions would disqualify you according to scripture - unless of course a person doesn't actually accept, believe, and walk in the whole counsel of God and is deceived because of it.
1 John 3:7 - Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOES righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Romans 8:13,14 - For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Romans 12:1 - I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

James 1:22 - Be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves

As I grew, I was provided commands and responsibilities as a son of my parents. In spite of the fact that I often failed, I was still a family member. There were consequences but I was still a son. It's not a whole lot different with God. We don't do good works to get to be in the family, neither to maintain our position there.

That's not how Christianity works. We are the bride of Christ so Christianity is a marriage, not a born in to a family situation as you have been taught.

2 Corinthians 11:2-3
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

In 2 Corinthians 6:17 the Lord instructs believers to separate themselves from unbelievers and avoid unclean things to be received by God

9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Luke 18

2 Thessalonians 2:10 - And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Hebrews 5:9 - And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him

Obedience to the Lord is required for salvation accor4ding to what the Lord teaches in the whole counsel of God in His Word.
Disobedience is offensive to the Lord

Only those led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God - Romans 8:14
The rest are tares who will be removed by the Lord later:

John 8:34,35
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

Matthew 13:41,42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[pinebeach]

If you all say so.

I posted what God wanted posted and it will reach the people He wants to teach from it. It wasn't meant for you. It won't matter if you oppose it because His word is does not return void and will accomplish what He has set.

God bless!

Actually I posted what God wanted because He has been trying to correct your error with regard to the commandments but you refuse to see it. Many people have pointed it out to you.

Have a wonderful day and please find a Bible teacher who has more patience than I care to spend on you since many of us have tried many times to correct your understand of the commandments and the fact the commandments are not the covenant since Jesus rose again.

 

[pinebeach]

@Freed18

Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness, before he offered up his son Isaac.

Job believed in a Redeemer.

David believed in a Redeemer.

Jesus said ..search the scriptures (old testament) for in them think ye have eternal life.

The topic of your thread has been covered multiple times and the same false accusations are given because of the poor understanding of people who oppose the fact that their works do not earn or keep salvation.

I appreciate your efforts, but it's always the same rinse and repeat no matter how many times scripture is gone over with certain people.

Thanks for your efforts though! See you in another thread.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Have a wonderful day and please find a Bible teacher who has more patience than I care to spend on you since many of us have tried many times to correct your understand of the commandments and the fact the commandments are not the covenant since Jesus rose again.

Did you teach that we are under the law of Christ now under the New Covenant?

Jesus has some commandments as High Priest under the New Covenant. You know that, right?

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Precious friend, WHY do you continue to ignore the whole counsel of God rejecting His warnings to Christians?

Haven't done that, since I believe:

"All Scripture Is Given By Inspiration of God, and is Profitable for ​

Doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" ​

(2 Timothy 3:16 AV) ​

and:

Really? Christians can live in sin and it's all good?

Have never taught that either:

"Be not deceived; God Is Not mocked: whatsoever a​

man soweth that shall he also reap" (Galatians 6:7 AV)​

+

"For the Grace of God that Bringeth Salvation hath appeared to all men,​

Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live​

soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;​

"Looking for That Blessed Hope, and The Glorious [ Great Grace Departure ]​

Appearing of The Great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who Gave Himself​

For us, that He might Redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a​

peculiar people, zealous of good works."​

(Titus 2:11-14 Compare 'should' in Ephesians 2:10 AV) ​

​

+
God Is Very Plain And Clear!:

"And if by Grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise Grace is no more Grace. ​

But if it be of works, then is it no more Grace: otherwise work is no more work." ​

(Romans 11:6 AV)​

+​

Confirmed By: ​

​

Are All God's 'co-laborers' going to be zealous and "walk in 'good works'​

for rewards? = Apparently not = 1 Corinthians 5:5 + 3:8-15 AV​

Also This "Rightly Divided" Biblical Confirmation:

Prophecy / Covenants / Law To/For Israel = NO osas in view:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑​

Scripturally Confirmed by "faith without works is dead" to/for
"the twelve tribes of Israel" (James 1:1, 2:17, 20, 26 AV)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!" (BBS)

Grace / Mystery To/For The Body Of Christ ( "Grace Through faith" Salvation!! ):

"By Grace Through faith" ( alive! ) Apart from all works, For God's​

Eternal Salvation (Ephesians 2:8-10; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4;​

Romans 3-5, 11:6; Titus 3:4-7 AV)​

God Is Extremely Plain And Clear In A Multitude Of Plain And Clear
Passages Concerning The Establishment of His Eternal Relationship
(Salvation) With All [ Before we were faithful And / or Unfaithful ]
members of The Body Of Christ, eh?:

Because Of God's Own All-Sufficient BLOOD Shed FOR mankind,
there is Only ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism In Which God Has All
Of The Following "Profitable For Doctrine" Scriptures For The
Body Of Christ!:

Where God's Eternal Salvation Is, In Biblical Fact, "in view" In God's
Revelation Of The Mystery, To/For Gentiles, Today, In Today's
Dispensation Of The Grace Of God, Biblically Confirmed By:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Conclusion:

When does should = Must!?, and also "NO MORE of works" = "Yes, KEEP the law"?:

Never Ever Change The Vast Multitude of Plain And Clear Scriptures By:​

​

"MISinterpreting them according to the few 'obscure, difficult, and dub-​

ious' cherry-picked verses" or by failing obey 2 Timothy 2:15 AV, eh?​

-------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

How Not to ignore the "Whole Counsel Of God":

 

[wattie]

Haven't done that, since I believe:

"All Scripture Is Given By Inspiration of God, and is Profitable for ​

Doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" ​

(2 Timothy 3:16 AV) ​

and:

Have never taught that either:

"Be not deceived; God Is Not mocked: whatsoever a​

man soweth that shall he also reap" (Galatians 6:7 AV)​

+

"For the Grace of God that Bringeth Salvation hath appeared to all men,​

Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live​

soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;​

"Looking for That Blessed Hope, and The Glorious [ Great Grace Departure ]​

Appearing of The Great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who Gave Himself​

For us, that He might Redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a​

peculiar people, zealous of good works."​

(Titus 2:11-14 Compare 'should' in Ephesians 2:10 AV) ​

​

+
God Is Very Plain And Clear!:

"And if by Grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise Grace is no more Grace. ​

But if it be of works, then is it no more Grace: otherwise work is no more work." ​

(Romans 11:6 AV)​

+​

Confirmed By: ​

​

Are All God's 'co-laborers' going to be zealous and "walk in 'good works'​

for rewards? = Apparently not = 1 Corinthians 5:5 + 3:8-15 AV​

Also This "Rightly Divided" Biblical Confirmation:

Prophecy / Covenants / Law To/For Israel = NO osas in view:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑​

Scripturally Confirmed by "faith without works is dead" to/for
"the twelve tribes of Israel" (James 1:1, 2:17, 20, 26 AV)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!" (BBS)

Grace / Mystery To/For The Body Of Christ ( "Grace Through faith" Salvation!! ):

"By Grace Through faith" ( alive! ) Apart from all works, For God's​

Eternal Salvation (Ephesians 2:8-10; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4;​

Romans 3-5, 11:6; Titus 3:4-7 AV)​

God Is Extremely Plain And Clear In A Multitude Of Plain And Clear
Passages Concerning The Establishment of His Eternal Relationship
(Salvation) With All [ Before we were faithful And / or Unfaithful ]
members of The Body Of Christ, eh?:

Because Of God's Own All-Sufficient BLOOD Shed FOR mankind,
there is Only ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism In Which God Has All
Of The Following "Profitable For Doctrine" Scriptures For The
Body Of Christ!:

Where God's Eternal Salvation Is, In Biblical Fact, "in view" In God's
Revelation Of The Mystery, To/For Gentiles, Today, In Today's
Dispensation Of The Grace Of God, Biblically Confirmed By:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Conclusion:

When does should = Must!?, and also "NO MORE of works" = "Yes, KEEP the law"?:

Never Ever Change The Vast Multitude of Plain And Clear Scriptures By:​

​

"MISinterpreting them according to the few 'obscure, difficult, and dub-​

ious' cherry-picked verses" or by failing obey 2 Timothy 2:15 AV, eh?​

-------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

How Not to ignore the "Whole Counsel Of God":

View attachment 296115

I thinks we goin round and round and round and round! Scooter will continue with false accusations. I think the horse is well and truly hammered!

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I thinks we goin round and round and round and round! Scooter will continue with false accusations. I think the horse is well and truly hammered!

In which case, my own "next step of obeying God's Commandments" would be in
accordance with Romans 16:17 AV, with [ coincidentally his own avatar ], eh?