THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

[Sudakar]

Is attaining unto perfection not a work? You keep using Matthew 5:48 and having read the context, I cannot fathom what you are getting at. Would you be willing to be a little bit more plain?

I define many things as works, but they are just a byproduct of sanctification. Sanctification is a lifelong process.

Looking to them and pointing out what works "I've" done is actually quite difficult. I can say that any one that encourages me in my faith (that I do indeed have it) typically seems prepared aforehand and I just sort of walk in them. There's a scripture about that which I can find if you like.

I suppose a better way to say it is the works the Lord has allowed me to do or given me to do. Anything I do on my own is something like scribbles on a paper, pretty useless. What the Lord gives is like a coloring page, what I think goal is would probably be to color inside the lines and do a good job...occasionally I make mistakes on the drawing and color outside the lines, but with practice, this occurs less and less frequently. The colors are up to me, but what I am coloring is up to him...Does that help at all?

Lordship Salvationists disobey mathew 5:48 when it comes to prove they have saving faith and yet pretend they have saving faith.

I don't believe in my works to prove I have saving faith.

 

[Sudakar]

Is attaining unto perfection not a work? You keep using Matthew 5:48 and having read the context, I cannot fathom what you are getting at. Would you be willing to be a little bit more plain?

I define many things as works, but they are just a byproduct of sanctification. Sanctification is a lifelong process.

Looking to them and pointing out what works "I've" done is actually quite difficult. I can say that any one that encourages me in my faith (that I do indeed have it) typically seems prepared aforehand and I just sort of walk in them. There's a scripture about that which I can find if you like.

I suppose a better way to say it is the works the Lord has allowed me to do or given me to do. Anything I do on my own is something like scribbles on a paper, pretty useless. What the Lord gives is like a coloring page, what I think goal is would probably be to color inside the lines and do a good job...occasionally I make mistakes on the drawing and color outside the lines, but with practice, this occurs less and less frequently. The colors are up to me, but what I am coloring is up to him...Does that help at all?

Those who try to oppose my ideas here, confuse between doing good works and trusting in their good works to prove they have saving faith.

 

[wolfwint]

Those who try to oppose my ideas here, confuse between doing good works and trusting in their good works to prove they have saving faith.

What is the different? Nobody here claimes that good works are

Those who try to oppose my ideas here, confuse between doing good works and trusting in their good works to prove they have saving faith.

Then maby you should leave this Forum and find friends in another thread, where people share your ideas.
Nobody here states that someone can earn salvation through good works.
God knows which heart is honest, is this not enough? For what we should judge the faith of others?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Trusting in your works to prove you have saving faith is flesh and self. Trusting in the grace of God given through Christ's perfect works to prove I have saving faith is Spirit.

1. You continue to remain thoroughly confused about this matter.

2. You are presuming that all Christians -- other than yourself -- are trusting in their good works for their salvation. Without a shred of evidence. So that makes you a false accuser.

3. You have simply ignored everything others have posted about the meaning of salvation which is repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. So that means you are wilfully blind.

4. You have misunderstood John MacArthur regarding Lordship Salvation. Here is a quote from his Grace To You website:

"First, Scripture teaches that the gospel calls sinners to faith joined in oneness with repentance (Acts 2:38; 17:30; 20:21; 2 Peter 3:9). Repentance is a turning from sin (Acts 3:19; Luke 24:47) that consists not of a human work but of a divinely bestowed grace (Acts 11:18; 2 Timothy 2:25). It is a change of heart, but genuine repentance will effect a change of behavior as well (Luke 3:8; Acts 26:18-20). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that repentance is simply a synonym for faith and that no turning from sin is required for salvation."

No Christian who knows Gospel truth can object to what has been stated above.

So what you should do now is repent of your folly and agree with MacArthur and all Christians who uphold the true Gospel. And let everyone here know about your change of heart.

 

[Sudakar]

1. You continue to remain thoroughly confused about this matter.

2. You are presuming that all Christians -- other than yourself -- are trusting in their good works for their salvation. Without a shred of evidence. So that makes you a false accuser.

3. You have simply ignored everything others have posted about the meaning of salvation which is repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. So that means you are wilfully blind.

4. You have misunderstood John MacArthur regarding Lordship Salvation. Here is a quote from his Grace To You website:

"First, Scripture teaches that the gospel calls sinners to faith joined in oneness with repentance (Acts 2:38; 17:30; 20:21; 2 Peter 3:9). Repentance is a turning from sin (Acts 3:19; Luke 24:47) that consists not of a human work but of a divinely bestowed grace (Acts 11:18; 2 Timothy 2:25). It is a change of heart, but genuine repentance will effect a change of behavior as well (Luke 3:8; Acts 26:18-20). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that repentance is simply a synonym for faith and that no turning from sin is required for salvation."

No Christian who know Gospel truth can object to what has been stated above.

How does one know he has saving faith? By works or confession?

 

[Robertt]

What is the different? Nobody here claimes that good works are
Then maby you should leave this Forum and find friends in another thread, where people share your ideas.
Nobody here states that someone can earn salvation through good works.
God knows which heart is honest, is this not enough? For what we should judge the faith of others?

wow such brotherly love lol

 

[Mii]

wow such brotherly love lol

Have you read the whole thread?



@Sudakar I am sincerely confused. You remind me of another poster that it's almost like he doesn't read anything anyone posts and just is trying to draw out discussion according to predetermined lines that he has set and on the rare occasion that someone posts along the lines of what he is looking for he will interact at least marginally. I am grateful that at least one time I was able to interact.

I'm open to a discussion based off what I've posted, as I have tried to interact based off what you have posted and you just put the same text in replies to multiple people which looks like baiting when it has almost nothing to do with what they said (that I can tell).
If you assume someone else to be in error about something, of what utility is it to be incredibly couched in your replies when they seem to have no idea what you are getting at?

Assuming you were in the right here, that would be like punishing a child without them even knowing what they did, which would be abusive.

I am trying to imagine a scenario where a conversation would ever go like what I have seen here in person on this thread. I can't think of one. It is courteous to explain further what is meant when someone asks for clarification.

If English isn't your primary language, consider using a translate app on people's posts as while I have gained some utility in working out my own salvation in this thread, that was a byproduct and there are many other threads to this effect.

So with that I bid you adieu. If you reply to me in the future and it has nothing to do with the message, I will most likely just ignore it. I feel conviction/guilt (not sure at this point as I don't do it anymore) when I am drawing energy out of people for the sake of it. Hopefully this is not your goal. I will continue to pay attention, mayhaps you realize something useful and I can glean further.

 

[miknik5]

If you cannot live according to mathew 5:48 and you are a sinner according to mathew 5:48, God must have atoned for your sins through Christ's atonement. Why then do you yet say you are not sinless?

When should we, if we sin, confess our sins? And how should we, if we sin, confess our sins?

 

[miknik5]

If your sins according to the standard mentioned in mathew 5:48 have been atoned for, why then do you yet consider yourself "not sinless"?

When should we, if we sin, confess our sins? And how should we, if we sin, confess our sins?

 

[miknik5]

Represent your self righteousness. Don't advocate for others.

Please be so kind to explain to us how to represent our self-righteousness? I would be really interested in knowing how...

Thank you so much....

 

[miknik5]

You disobey mathew 5:48 when it comes to prove you have saving faith and yet pretend you have saving faith.

I don't believe in my works to prove I have saving faith.

It doesn´t matter sir...you may not be validating your faith based on your works, but you are, never the less, basing and validating your faith on yourself...and boasting about it...

 

[miknik5]

How does one know he has saving faith? By works or confession?

By only one thing sir...and it isn´t boasting in anything other than that...

And is the difference between the tax collector and the supposed ¨learned¨ pharisee

 

[miknik5]

How does one know he has saving faith? By works or confession?

By THE ONE who told us how we have a saving faith...And sir, you are giving something outside of HIS WORD and TRUTH...

 

[Nehemiah6]

It doesn´t matter sir...you may not be validating your faith based on your works, but you are, never the less, basing and validating your faith on yourself...and boasting about it...

You should save your breath.

 

[miknik5]

You should save your breath.

I know, but I can´t help it...he is misrepresenting CHRISITANS...and I can´t keep quiet about it.

 

[miknik5]

All that is hidden will be revealed...

 

[miknik5]

Something is missing in his teachings, and i am not sure that he is even aware of it...

 

[cv5]

Lordship salvation theory teaches the following: That one's salvation is CONDITIONAL upon the life we live. It states:

"Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith" (EPHESIANS, p. 249).

"Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93).

The Word of God calls it a lie in Romans 4:5... "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Rubbish. Anyone who receives Jesus Messiah receives Him for Who He actually is.....LORD.
Whether they believe it or not or understand it or not is altogether a different matter.

 

[cv5]

Lordship Salvationists disobey mathew 5:48 when it comes to prove they have saving faith and yet pretend they have saving faith.

I don't believe in my works to prove I have saving faith.

So let's get this straight:
-you are of yourself perfect in your faith
-you have appropriated to yourself perfect physical healing because you have perfect faith
-you do not know anyone personally who is likewise so endowed, and nobody on this message board is so endowed either.

Does that sound about right?

 

[kaylagrl]

Don't confuse between doing works and trusting works.

If you read the Word there is no confusion. Say it with me "hand in glove".