The New Covenant Is Not What Many Have Been Taught

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
no; there are people who reject the gospel, and people who do not. people whose trust is in themselves, and people whose trust is in Christ.

no one here 'follows Paul' because they believe the gospel.

Your on a winner today.

Three solid posts in a row.
 
Sure. But God clearly initiates a covenant with Israel in the book. He does so complete with a preamble, historical prologue, stipulations, sanctions, and succession arrangements.

Israel failed to uphold the terms of the agreement. Where does God sanction Israel for their failure to keep the covenant?

Matthew 23:37-38
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her!
How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under
her wings, and you were unwilling. Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!

Luke 21:20
But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are inside the city must
leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of punishment,
so that all things which have been written will be fulfilled.

Romans 11:20
Quite right, they (Israel) were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not
be conceited, but fear.
 
It’s a matter of correctly understanding the Biblical definitions for both of these. I can provide Scripture that explains it clearly, but it may not be want you want to hear.

Sin is breaking the law of God 1John3:4 James2:11 Rom7:7

Being under the law means not being under the condemnation of the law Rom3:19, the wages of sin is death Rom6:23, not ignoring what our Lord and Savior said plainly, if you love Me, keep My commandments. John14:15

We are not saved by our works our works demonstrate if your faith is genuine of not, why we are judged by them. 2Cor5:10 James2:11 Ecc12:13-14 we are saved by grace because all has sin, but our salvation is through faith, I do not believe faith leads a believer to not hear His sayings and not do them, at least thats what Jesus indicated. Mat7:21-23 Luke6:46-49

What does believing in the resurrection of Jesus Christ imply?
 
Works-salvationists will typically plug obedience/works into faith, which culminates in salvation by faith and works. Let the boasting begin! The message that we here from vassal is not salvation by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) but salvation by faith + obeying the 10 commandments which culminates in "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works" which is a "different' gospel.

Roman Catholics also plug obedience/works into faith. I was once in a discussion with a Roman Catholic on a Christian forum
who affirmed that salvation is by grace through faith, not works, but then after we discussed it further, what that Roman Catholic actually believed was that we are saved by grace through faith "infused" with works and then those works become meritorious towards receiving salvation, which is not what we read in Ephesians 2:8,9.

Here is what that Roman Catholic said to me: We are saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is not simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being water baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments etc..

Mormons also plug obedience/works into faith. In the book of Mormon in 2 Nephi 25:23, we read - For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all WE can DO. In other words, do all you can or else the Lord will not be able to save you.

Also, in Romans 4:16 of the so called 'Inspired Version' of the bible that Joseph Smith wrote, we read - Therefore, ye are justified of faith and works, through grace..

Other translations of Romans 4:16 read:

Therefore, it is of faith, that it might be by grace.. (KJV)
Therefore, it is of faith that it might be according to grace.. (NKJV)
For this reason, it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace.. (NASB)
For this reason, it is by faith so that it may be by grace.. (NET)

Not the same message as the so called 'Inspired Version.'

Work-salvationists will basically take faith AND works then wrap them BOTH up in a package and simply stamp "faith" on the package.

They do not understand the reason for our salvation belongs to Christ alone.

Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

They reject the idea that Jesus grants salvation as a gift for believing in Him.

They can read that salvation is a gift but they just don't believe it.

Even AI understands the simple gospel but the Christian world does not.
 
They do not understand the reason for our salvation belongs to Christ alone.

Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

.

Yet Jesus said the complete opposite...

Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Obviously there is some discrepancies in our understanding and perhaps why we have this in Scripture 2Peter3:16
 
Yet Jesus said the complete opposite...

Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Obviously there is some discrepancies in our understanding and perhaps why we have this in Scripture 2Peter3:16
Perhaps calling on the name of the Lord is different from calling Jesus Lord.
 
I agree that the Moab covenant expanded the Sinai covenant, but why don't you believe that it is a covenant that assimilates the former covenant into it?

It incorporates the law of the first covenant, but it's not a modified first covenant because a covenant can't be modified or added to once it's ratified

Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed (κυρόω), no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Galatians 3:15
G2964 κυρόω kuroo (kï-ro'-ō) v.
to make authoritative, i.e. ratify.
 
Perhaps calling on the name of the Lord is different from calling Jesus Lord.
Easy way to get to heaven huh, just say Lord. But live however we want.

Both verses said Lord.

Guess we shall see how that works out. The Bible tells us...only one group makes it in.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
 
But live however we want.
Why do you all repeat this gross error? Who here has ever made such a claim? Yet, that is the consistent accusation of those who adhere to the law of Moses as did the Judaizers of Paul's day.

You happily condemn others with your blatant lie and congratulate each other. It's disgusting and completely unChristian.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cameron143
Why do you all repeat this gross error? Who here has ever made such a claim? Yet, that is the consistent accusation of those who adhere to the law of Moses as did the Judaizers of Paul's day.

You happily condemn others with your blatant lie and congratulate each other. It's disgusting and completely unChristian.
So than its more than saying Lord? And what lie was I promoting? That's its more than saying Lord Lord? Its what Jesus said.

Sorry, if quoting what the Bible says who enters into His Kingdom is offensive. I don't know of anyone promoting the law of Moses.
 
Easy way to get to heaven huh, just say Lord. But live however we want.

Both verses said Lord.

Guess we shall see how that works out. The Bible tells us...only one group makes it in.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
You take alot of liberties from a singular statement. Perhaps if you don't comprehend what someone is saying you could ask some questions for clarification. Quite simply, there is a difference between calling on the name of the Lord and simply calling Jesus Lord. A simple Google search would fill you in.
 
Yet Jesus said the complete opposite...

Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Obviously there is some discrepancies in our understanding and perhaps why we have this in Scripture 2Peter3:16

So your saying that Paul was in error in saying.

Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Because that disagrees with what Jesus said?
 
It incorporates the law of the first covenant, but it's not a modified first covenant because a covenant can't be modified or added to once it's ratified

Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed (κυρόω), no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Galatians 3:15
G2964 κυρόω kuroo (kï-ro'-ō) v.
to make authoritative, i.e. ratify.
This doesn't say God can't add to it.
 
So your saying that Paul was in error in saying.

Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Because that disagrees with what Jesus said?

No, its taken out of context, its not just a one time thing of saying Lord, its calling on the Lord daily to guide ones life, putting away sin Rom 6:1-4, which is breaking the law of God and living for Him. When we do, we call on Him daily because He is the center of our lives. Its a lifestyle, not a word.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vassal
It incorporates the law of the first covenant, but it's not a modified first covenant because a covenant can't be modified or added to once it's ratified

Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed (κυρόω), no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Galatians 3:15
G2964 κυρόω kuroo (kï-ro'-ō) v.
to make authoritative, i.e. ratify.
Agreed, for God to make a change, He would have to die all over again but His sacrifice was once and for all Heb10:10. No one can add or change His covenant without He dying all over again. Paul came after the death of Jesus, so everything Paul teaches must be reconciled with Christ.