Was sex Adam and Eve part of the curse
- Thread starter Burn1986
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That is willful blindness. We would have no concept of “heavenly marriage” were it not for earthly marriage. The latter is far more than physical union.
earthly marriage
is also combining 2 people s wealth together, that alone is huge.Where our treasure is where heart is. Imagine we trust another human with all our wealth? Health? Everyday living?
No, you would have no concept of "heavenly marriage" if you have no relationship with God through Jesus. Paul never married, did he have that concept? What credibility did he have according to you?
Miss the point much?
Not everyone needs to have every experience for the experience to be commonly understanding in society.
I propose that the physical is only a parable of the spiritual, to make us aware of the components (concepts) that are involved even though some parts aren't directly correlated.
Like the parable of having faith "as a grain of mustard seed"... He likely doesn't mean "the same size as" or "being made of plant matter", for instance. Faith isn't measured by a set of calipers... or by a DNA test.
Some parts of an analogy transfer directly... Some not at all.
OK, then there's no need for earthly marriage in order to experience heavenly marriage.
Not on this case. There's no more birth or death in resurrection, no more need for reprudiction, thus no more marriage. Arguing for earthly marriage and using it as a "parable" for the spiritual is making the same mistake of the Sadduccees, who applied the concept of marriage in this life in the next life.
Again, miss the point much?
“Heavenly marriage” would be absolutely meaningless were it not for earthly marriage. We would have no concept whatsoever of “marriage” if it didn’t exist on earth.
And again, there's no marriage in resurrection, Matt. 22:30. In the Olivet Discourse, marriage was even portrayed in a negative way, like the days of Noah people were marrying and giving in marriage, ignoring the signs of his coming.
Jesus often used the aspects and concepts of earthly marriage in his teachings towards heavenly principles. Matthew 25:1-13 for example.
If Jesus (the one who first stated "they neither marry nor are given in marriage") still taught marriage CONCEPTS as relatable in spiritual matters of how God interacts with his followers... On what basis do you suggest they aren't?
Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord,
the fruit of the womb a reward.
Like arrows in the hand of a warrior
are the children of one's youth.
Blessed is the man
who fills his quiver with them!
He shall not be put to shame
when he speaks with his enemies in the gate. - Psalm 127:3-5
Exactly!
I was going say something similar but doubt I would have said it so succinctly. Bravo!
reneweddaybyday said:
A wife is not a wife without a husband.
When speaking about husbands and wives, we are talking about people who are already in an established marriage relationship.
My understanding is that the resurrection is a future reality.
The Lord Jesus Christ confirmed marriage:
Matthew 19:4-6
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Paul confirmed marriage:
Ephesians 5:31-32
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Agree marriage is for this life.
Agree there is no marriage in the resurrection.
You never answered the questions I asked:
Do you believe only single men and women are "true disciples"?
Do you believe no married couple is "true disciples"? you can think of no married couple you know who love God? all the married couples you know completely disregard anything God has written in His Word?
I wonder if the believing married couples you know are aware of the fact that you believe they are carnal minded, they are not true disciples, they disregard what God has written in His Word.
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Please provide the post submitted by me wherein I stated that "everyone is born with a spouse whom they can just pick up when they come of age like a trust fund".
Until you provide such post, the "hubris and unsubstantiated assumtpions" are wholly on your part.
Nowhere did I ever claim that "there's a spouse dropped from the sky for every good christian". That is more "hubris and unsubstantiated assumtpions" on your part.
A husband is not a husband without a wife.
A wife is not a wife without a husband.
When speaking about husbands and wives, we are talking about people who are already in an established marriage relationship.
Are we in the resurrection yet, Lovette?
My understanding is that the resurrection is a future reality.
God is the One Who established the marriage relationship. That you equate the relationship God established as "carnal" does not equal God having established what you claim.
The Lord Jesus Christ confirmed marriage:
Matthew 19:4-6
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Paul confirmed marriage:
Ephesians 5:31-32
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Agree marriage is for this life.
Agree there is no marriage in the resurrection.
You never answered the questions I asked:
Do you believe only single men and women are "true disciples"?
Do you believe no married couple is "true disciples"? you can think of no married couple you know who love God? all the married couples you know completely disregard anything God has written in His Word?
I wonder if the believing married couples you know are aware of the fact that you believe they are carnal minded, they are not true disciples, they disregard what God has written in His Word.
.
reneweddaybyday said:
It is not sinful to want to be married nor is it sinful to be married.
It is not sinful to not want to be married nor is it sinful to remain single.
reneweddaybyday said:
reneweddaybyday said:
That satan has managed to dupe mankind into thinking marriage is as you claim (carnal) ... or that it's best to have children out of wedlock ... does not change the fact that what God ordained was a blessed union between husband and wife.
The pharisees accused Jesus of being "born of fornication". Mary and Joseph were espoused, they were legally bound and required a bill of divorce if they were to separate. Joseph, her husband (Matthew 1:19) was a just man and thought about privately putting Mary away. However, an angel appeared to Joseph and revealed to him "that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost". Joseph obeyed (Matthew 1:23) and kept Mary as his wife; and Mary is an example of this as well as she said "be it unto me according to thy word" ... which is evidence that believing married couples can and do obey God. Joseph and Mary were a married couple at the time ... the marriage had not yet been consummated (i.e. they had not had sexual relations at that point and Mary was still a virgin at the time).
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Marriage is not a "worldly distraction". God has established marriage and for you to characterize marriage as a "worldly distraction" reveals your complete ignorance of God's perspective concerning marriage.
Paul also wrote if you're married, don't seek to be loosed, and if you're single don't seek to be married, and if you marry you have not sinned.
It is not sinful to want to be married nor is it sinful to be married.
It is not sinful to not want to be married nor is it sinful to remain single.
reneweddaybyday said:
The same Author that wrote what you quoted also wrote this:
Proverbs 18:22 Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.
We need to take caution when considering marriage. God admonishes us not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers.
Do you believe single persons are the only ones who can see and experience the kingdom of heaven? No married couple can comprehend or experience the kingdom of heaven?
reneweddaybyday said:
you need to get a grip if my praising God for something He ordained from the very first chapters of Genesis has you in such a snit.
Well, biblically speaking, what God ordained was the two parent nuclear family.
That satan has managed to dupe mankind into thinking marriage is as you claim (carnal) ... or that it's best to have children out of wedlock ... does not change the fact that what God ordained was a blessed union between husband and wife.
The pharisees accused Jesus of being "born of fornication". Mary and Joseph were espoused, they were legally bound and required a bill of divorce if they were to separate. Joseph, her husband (Matthew 1:19) was a just man and thought about privately putting Mary away. However, an angel appeared to Joseph and revealed to him "that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost". Joseph obeyed (Matthew 1:23) and kept Mary as his wife; and Mary is an example of this as well as she said "be it unto me according to thy word" ... which is evidence that believing married couples can and do obey God. Joseph and Mary were a married couple at the time ... the marriage had not yet been consummated (i.e. they had not had sexual relations at that point and Mary was still a virgin at the time).
The one who is taking anything personally is the one who considers marriage as only a "carnal" relationship, when God's Word tells us otherwise. I pray that you will allow God to open your eyes to the truth concerning marriage.
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Using your logic, eating would also be portrayed in a negative way. Are you advocating that we should stop eating?
In the Olivet Discourse what was "portrayed in a negative way" was "the days of Noe" ... not marriage in and of itself ... but the time period in which Noah lived.
Noah was a preacher of righteousness (2 Peter 2:5) but the only ones who were with him in the ark were his wife, his sons, and their wives.
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