Women Pastors? Help me.

[samuel23]

Hi VCO: I made my final words just like I wanted, and then checked on it later only to find that I had contradicted myself by forgetting the "not". Sigh! Human frailty.

 

[chickenkiller]

it would enforce your point if that were the only piece of scripture, but there are multiple. This thread is going nowhere. Nobody is learning anything but I think it would be beneficial to agree to disagree because if a non Christian came to this site and saw this it would definitely not be letting our lights shine, but instead it would be a good reason for them to turn away from Christianity.

I gotta agree, this thread sums up everything wrong with Christianity. Nobody can agree on anything, if a new comer came on here they would be so confused they would eventually just leave.

 

[StanJ]

I'm not condemning anyone, I am simply saying that I will choose to play it safe and do as scripture plainly says. You can take your chances on disobeying God.

Again, your opinion carries no weight or credulity. Remember what Jesus said about playing it safe. Rev 3:15-16

 

[StanJ]

This post proves 1 thing and 1 thing only. You are very unaware of what the bible says throughout, with how God gives very clear instruction on how HE WANTS things to be if we are followers of him. I do absolutely refuse to continue with this argument and it has nothing to do whatsoever with my understanding or as you ignorantly say "cognitive dissonance". You say that people who believe what I believe are lacking understanding and go as far as to state that "our opinion isn't worth anything", but I or we can say the exact same thing about you. You have zero understanding. God will be the judge between us in the end. Farewell

It's funny how I'm the one exegeting scripture and you're the one refusing to accept the exegesis. You have failed to corroborate your opinion which makes you nothing more than an opinionated person who can't except anybody else's opinion that is contrary to your own, regardless of the facts presented to you. Given the fact that you actually think this issue is one that requires God's judgement in the end shows very little as to what you know about God and your so-called relationship with him. What Jesus will be judging in the end are the un-saved and the self righteous. It's pretty clear to most of us here which category you will fall into.

 

[StanJ]

I gotta agree, this thread sums up everything wrong with Christianity. Nobody can agree on anything, if a new comer came on here they would be so confused they would eventually just leave.

So as a new comer are you leaving because of this thread?

 

[chickenkiller]

So as a new comer are you leaving because of this thread?

No but its interesting to see how everyone thinks they are right. Both books are not very big its amazing how many ways they can be interpreted.

As an outsider I have to agree that the bible says women should not preach. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. I dont even think its that big of deal. I mean the bible is not overly kind to women.

 

[StanJ]

No but its interesting to see how everyone thinks they are right. Both books are not very big its amazing how many ways they can be interpreted.
As an outsider I have to agree that the bible says women should not preach. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. I dont even think its that big of deal. I mean the bible is not overly kind to women.

I don't think there's anybody in the world who would debate on a thread like this if they thought they were wrong, so it's a given that people only debate when they think they are right.
Interpolation is not the same as interpretation but regardless the Bible has already been translated so there's not much for us to do in the way of interpreting but there is much for us to do in the way of exposition wherein we study what exactly the contact is for the scripture in question. That is exactly what Paul meant in 2 Timothy 2:15. You didn't mean memorizing he meant study to show that you know what the scripture is actually saying and not just repeat it verbatim, without any clear understanding, especially when the scripture is not that clear in the first place.
You may be better served in reading through this thread and seeing all the arguments before making a commitment about your opinion. The more prospective you can get on any issue in the Bible, the better informed you will be to hopefully get the true message.
I've been reading and studying the Bible for over 45 years and I can tell you that the Bible treats women better than any other religion and most other societies on this Earth.

 

[chickenkiller]

I don't think there's anybody in the world who would debate on a thread like this if they thought they were wrong, so it's a given that people only debate when they think they are right.
Interpolation is not the same as interpretation but regardless the Bible has already been translated so there's not much for us to do in the way of interpreting but there is much for us to do in the way of exposition wherein we study what exactly the contact is for the scripture in question. That is exactly what Paul meant in 2 Timothy 2:15. You didn't mean memorizing he meant study to show that you know what the scripture is actually saying and not just repeat it verbatim, without any clear understanding, especially when the scripture is not that clear in the first place.
You may be better served in reading through this thread and seeing all the arguments before making a commitment about your opinion. The more prospective you can get on any issue in the Bible, the better informed you will be to hopefully get the true message.
I've been reading and studying the Bible for over 45 years and I can tell you that the Bible treats women better than any other religion and most other societies on this Earth.

I personally don't think God will hold a grudge if you just don't understand something. I mean no one can understand Gods exact thoughts on everything.

 

[Elizabeth619]

I think a few of you need to go back to your corners. If you can't even discuss scripture in a kind Christ-like manner then chances are you don't need to be discussing this topic.

 

[samuel23]

I think there are folks who will argue a topic vehemently even though down deep in their heart they know that it is false. Me thinks that you protest too much, is a clear example of making a big fuss over something because down deep in the heart the person is really trying to convince their self. It is difficult work to fight against clear in context scripture, so one must be determined to keep pounding away at it even though person after person comes along and proves that your idea is false.

 

[StanJ]

I think there are folks who will argue a topic vehemently even though down deep in their heart they know that it is false. Me thinks that you protest too much, is a clear example of making a big fuss over something because down deep in the heart the person is really trying to convince their self. It is difficult work to fight against clear in context scripture, so one must be determined to keep pounding away at it even though person after person comes along and proves that your idea is false.

Well as you're one of those people Samuel who keeps doing this, why do you do it? A majority of people on this thread have given good exegesis on the verses that you and a couple of others hang your hats on and yet you continue to make comments like this but never show any reason, via exegesis, why you believe the way you do nor do you acknowledge the proper exegesis from scripture that you've been given.

 

[VCO]

The Holy Spirit does not promote fear (but rather conviction). For what spirit are you speaking?

What you base your position on is that the translators fully understood and accurately and completely represented the original sense of the original language. Basing your position on the English of isolated verses, and then continually preaching warnings for those who "disobey" your interpretation, doesn't hold water and adds nothing to your position.

If, as you claim, this "boils down to how much you fear God," (which I don't accept) then I suggest you fear Him enough to make absolutely sure that your interpretation of the relevant passages is absolutely watertight. That means dealing with the material that Angela presented on pages 5 and 7... at a minimum.

How about you (and everyone else with a complementarian perspective) completely drop the "fear God" trump card and actually try to understand and respond calmly and rationally to the arguments presented against your position(s).

I guess you do not know, Fear and trembling, in the Bible towards GOD and obedience to HIS WORD, involves, REVERENT RESPECT FOR GOD, A FEELING OF UNWORTHINESS, TOTAL SUBMISSION, AND A DEEP SENSE OF CONVICTION OVER YOUR UTTER SINFULNESS, KNOWING WHAT YOU REALLY DESERVE, BECAUSE OF YOUR LACK OF OBEDIENCE. I wouldn't be so hasty to criticize FEAR and TREMBLING if I was you.


Psalm 2:11 (ESV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.


Mark 5:33 (HCSB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Then the woman, knowing what had happened to her, came with fear and trembling, fell down before Him, and told Him the whole truth.


1 Corinthians 2:2-3 (ESV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling,


Acts 16:28-30 (ESV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] But Paul cried with a loud voice, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here.”
[SUP]29 [/SUP] And the jailer called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

2 Corinthians 7:15 (ESV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And his affection for you is even greater, as he remembers the obedience of you all, how you received him with fear and trembling.


Ephesians 6:5 (ASV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Servants, be obedient unto them that according to the flesh are your masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

Philippians 2:11-12 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; {meaning if your ARE SAVED, manifest it in your lifestyle of Obedience and your attitude towards GOD.}

 

[VCO]

No but its interesting to see how everyone thinks they are right. Both books are not very big its amazing how many ways they can be interpreted.

As an outsider I have to agree that the bible says women should not preach. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. I dont even think its that big of deal. I mean the bible is not overly kind to women.

No, not at all. You misunderstand why the Lord wants the women to play the submissive role. First of all, in doing so, they are a picture of what the Entire Bride's (whole Assembly of BELIEVER'S from all time) attitude towards CHRIST should be.

Second of all, the women have a much more important mission given to them, than the role of men. They are to TEACH THE CHILDREN, and younger women. Why is that more important? In teaching their children, and the younger women to LOVE, Respect, and Obey the Lord, they INFLUENCE AT LEAST THE NEXT TWO GENERATIONS, POSSIBLY THREE. Whereas, we men, who are who are faithful to TEACHING, for the most part can only influence the present generation.

 

[StanJ]

I guess you do not know, Fear and trembling, in the Bible towards GOD and obedience to HIS WORD, involves, REVERENT RESPECT FOR GOD, A FEELING OF UNWORTHINESS, TOTAL SUBMISSION, AND A DEEP SENSE OF CONVICTION OVER YOUR UTTER SINFULNESS, KNOWING WHAT YOU REALLY DESERVE, BECAUSE OF YOUR LACK OF OBEDIENCE. I wouldn't be so hasty to criticize FEAR and TREMBLING if I was you.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God did not give us a Spirit of fear but of power and love and self-control.

 

[Dude653]

It kills me when people say the Bible plainly says this or that and then call the scripture entirely out of its context

 

[VCO]

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God did not give us a Spirit of fear but of power and love and self-control.

Are you up there trying to start an Appalachian style of Pentecostal Church, handling snakes?

Acts 9:31 (ASV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] So the church throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria had peace, being edified; and, walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, was multiplied.

 

[Dino246]

I guess you do not know, Fear and trembling, in the Bible towards GOD and obedience to HIS WORD, involves, REVERENT RESPECT FOR GOD, A FEELING OF UNWORTHINESS, TOTAL SUBMISSION, AND A DEEP SENSE OF CONVICTION OVER YOUR UTTER SINFULNESS, KNOWING WHAT YOU REALLY DESERVE, BECAUSE OF YOUR LACK OF OBEDIENCE. I wouldn't be so hasty to criticize FEAR and TREMBLING if I was you.

Shouting again? Really? Making unwarranted assumptions? Really? You are without excuse.

Perhaps you should set an example if your understanding of the Word is so superior. Take care not to criticize another's servant. This thread is about women in pastoral roles... try to stay on topic... and please go and learn what an ad hominem fallacy entails.

 

[Dagallen]

Based on what a woman does, is between that woman and God not between a woman and a man, when it comes to this topic, except the fact, there are women who are pastor's and if a person doesn't like it, then go find another Church, yes women can be a pastor.

 

[wolfwint]

Based on what a woman does, is between that woman and God not between a woman and a man, when it comes to this topic, except the fact, there are women who are pastor's and if a person doesn't like it, then go find another Church, yes women can be a pastor.

Says who? You? Ore the Scripture?

 

[Dagallen]

Says who? You? Ore the Scripture?

For God does not see us males and females, He see as one. As we are one in Christ. Don't except that we are one in Christ, then you aren't in Christ but are still being decieved.