-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Sure he did...
1 Timothy 2:4-6
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
And
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
And we know that we disagree on what John 3:19-21 is saying...
To me it is clearly saying, that men loved darkness rather than light...meaning they chose to stay in the darkness and not come to the light because they did not want to change. Yet, that was and still is the choice. We can come to the light or not...God don't make anyone... it's our choice. Do we want to come to light or stay in darkness? That's a choice, right.
1 Timothy 2:4-6
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
And
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
And we know that we disagree on what John 3:19-21 is saying...
To me it is clearly saying, that men loved darkness rather than light...meaning they chose to stay in the darkness and not come to the light because they did not want to change. Yet, that was and still is the choice. We can come to the light or not...God don't make anyone... it's our choice. Do we want to come to light or stay in darkness? That's a choice, right.
E
And thank you for proving it wasn't free will. 
As for me, I do nto think God made robots to do his will. I think he made people he wanted to have a relationship.
You can not have a relationship with a robot. You relate to people who have the freedom to agree or disagree with you, to do what you say, or not do what you say (and in the case of God, to not listen, fail, and realise God was right to begin with, and this is a learning process. Much like a child learnes from his parents.
But hey, so be it.
E
They did because they said yes,
Please stop. You were not in those mens heads and you can not prove your point, your hjust arguing to argue,
Noah could have said no. Paul could have said no. God did not force them against their will.
Actually I did consider the pros or cons. Many people do. Thats why they ask questions, thats why they search for answers. Thats why they do what you did and ASK, and God answered them. I prayed for weeks for knowledge (maybe monthsd0 and asked all kinds of people. it was not until a deacon sat down with me and took me through the bible when I finally realised, it is much better to go with God than to continue on trusting myself.
And like You, God has not let me Down.
Sorry but your example failed.
How do you reconcile this with John 16:8-11?
When did God reveal to you that you were a sinner justly deserving eternal condemnation? When did God make it plain to you that only the righteousness of Christ was sufficient for God? When did God reveal to you that through His Son Jesus Christ God would forgive your personal sin and give you eternal life?
Sorry but I just of not see this idea of waking up one day and being elect or specially chosen to be saved.
We are saved by grace. Grace made known to us by the faith we glean from Gods word. We are changed, converted, quickened by the Holy Spirit from dead as a door nail into a tender living new creation in Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
When did God reveal to you that you were a sinner justly deserving eternal condemnation? When did God make it plain to you that only the righteousness of Christ was sufficient for God? When did God reveal to you that through His Son Jesus Christ God would forgive your personal sin and give you eternal life?
Sorry but I just of not see this idea of waking up one day and being elect or specially chosen to be saved.
We are saved by grace. Grace made known to us by the faith we glean from Gods word. We are changed, converted, quickened by the Holy Spirit from dead as a door nail into a tender living new creation in Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
D
I don't think you're getting what Shunned is saying either.
But let's try it your way.
How did God both save Israel and not save Israel?
How was it that God saved Israel, and as proof, Israel is still around today, BUT there was no Israel when Dad was young? There was no Israel for 1900 years!
And how was it that the people directed by a humongous tornadoey storm cloud (God's visible presence) to walk through a humongous sea, be fed by stuff floating down from the sky, on occasion, have a flock of birds that make starling flocks look insignificant come along for so much meat they grew tired of it, gave them enough to drink and feed their flocks (and remember 2 million people, so how big were those flocks?) in the middle of a desert, gave them victory over a battle-trained army, when they had just spent the last 400 years not-ever allowed to pick up weapons, and all through a staff being raised over an old guy's head, and still did not "choose" to believe?
What did they not have that you do have? AND how did YOU get it?
But let's try it your way.
How did God both save Israel and not save Israel?
How was it that God saved Israel, and as proof, Israel is still around today, BUT there was no Israel when Dad was young? There was no Israel for 1900 years!
And how was it that the people directed by a humongous tornadoey storm cloud (God's visible presence) to walk through a humongous sea, be fed by stuff floating down from the sky, on occasion, have a flock of birds that make starling flocks look insignificant come along for so much meat they grew tired of it, gave them enough to drink and feed their flocks (and remember 2 million people, so how big were those flocks?) in the middle of a desert, gave them victory over a battle-trained army, when they had just spent the last 400 years not-ever allowed to pick up weapons, and all through a staff being raised over an old guy's head, and still did not "choose" to believe?
What did they not have that you do have? AND how did YOU get it?
D
I agree with you. Man has choice. Man has always had choice. We could choose the darkness or choose the light. We NEVER choose the light! We're enjoying our closets, our cellars, or caves. Nice lush darkness so no one sees what we're doing. Our choice. Each and every time. Our. CHOICE!
Who dinked the light switch to change our minds?
(And if you think light comes on all, then that is called "univeralism.")
Who dinked the light switch to change our minds?
(And if you think light comes on all, then that is called "univeralism.")
Man has a responsibility to choose ever since Adam and Eve received the knowledge of good and evil.
Here is where you go off the reservation. You misinterpret universalism in the context of Christianity. Scripture states that Christ lights every soul that comes into the world. Every soul not just the mystical elect.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Man is then responsible because of the knowledge of good and evil to select which he will receive.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
The Holy Spirit bring conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment. John 16:8-11.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
D
If you're in a dark room and someone turns on the light, did you trun into a robot or were you always a robot?
If your walking your dog along a busy street and the dog sees a squirrel on the other side, does the dog become a robot because you yank it back to avoid getting squished by a car?
Did I become a robot the morning after I saw a rock concert?
Did you become a robot because God insisted you do whatever he insisted you do? Like did Jonah become a robot in the fish's stomach during those three days?
Did Stephen become a robot as the crowd taunted him for sticking by his beliefs in God including that last vision as he was dying?
What is this robot crap? (I actually know what it is. It's a very old argument from Arminius's side that didn't work updated, as if telling the lie again and again suddenly makes it truth.) When was the last time you met any human that turned into a robot?
My husband broke his back. There was no choice there. We spent the next few years trusting the Lord BECAUSE there was no choice there. Did we become robots?
Some people took me off an operating table and lifted me in such a way it pinched a nerve in my back. I did not have a choice if I wanted a nerve to be pinched, so did I become a robot then?
I have DDD, so my back is becoming progressively worse. If given choice, it wouldn't be that choice. Am I then a robot?
Hubby had such a massive heart attack that he literally blew his micro valve halfway off his heart. If given a choice, he wouldn't have done that. Did he become a robot right then?
Did I become a robot right then, because I didn't have a choice but to trust the Lord?
Look back at your life. Which parts of it did you have no choice in. Did you become a robot?
Of all the lame excuses Arminian's use as their arguments, the robot one is the lamest!
If your walking your dog along a busy street and the dog sees a squirrel on the other side, does the dog become a robot because you yank it back to avoid getting squished by a car?
Did I become a robot the morning after I saw a rock concert?
Did you become a robot because God insisted you do whatever he insisted you do? Like did Jonah become a robot in the fish's stomach during those three days?
Did Stephen become a robot as the crowd taunted him for sticking by his beliefs in God including that last vision as he was dying?
What is this robot crap? (I actually know what it is. It's a very old argument from Arminius's side that didn't work updated, as if telling the lie again and again suddenly makes it truth.) When was the last time you met any human that turned into a robot?
My husband broke his back. There was no choice there. We spent the next few years trusting the Lord BECAUSE there was no choice there. Did we become robots?
Some people took me off an operating table and lifted me in such a way it pinched a nerve in my back. I did not have a choice if I wanted a nerve to be pinched, so did I become a robot then?
I have DDD, so my back is becoming progressively worse. If given choice, it wouldn't be that choice. Am I then a robot?
Hubby had such a massive heart attack that he literally blew his micro valve halfway off his heart. If given a choice, he wouldn't have done that. Did he become a robot right then?
Did I become a robot right then, because I didn't have a choice but to trust the Lord?
Look back at your life. Which parts of it did you have no choice in. Did you become a robot?
Of all the lame excuses Arminian's use as their arguments, the robot one is the lamest!
D
I asked him if he could be as real to me as a man on the stage. I did NOT ask him to save me, to forgive me, to become Lord over me. Never even thought to ask. Just wanted to know if God was real.
You're contention is we are saved because we ask to be saved. OUR choice!
Bzzzz -- massive failure on your part!
You're contention is we are saved because we ask to be saved. OUR choice!
Bzzzz -- massive failure on your part!