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What can I say, there are those who would prefer to put their trust in God (who
are labelled racist).
There are those who would prefer to put their trust in the EU.
When the results of the vote were announced I felt that something spiritually lifted
off this country and I know other Christians who felt the same too.
We are accountable to God not the EU. I'm not saying the UK is a Godly nation,
we do need to pray that Godly leaders will be raised up and make a stand for what
is right. This is something we could never even hope to achieve while members of
the EU, as the EU legislation over rules that of all member states.
Ive seen first hand in my job as a civil servant, how EU legislation had crept into UK
legislation. That is why it will take at least two years to untangle ourselves.
Ps I'm not racist I'm mixed race myself. I go to a church with over 40 different
nationalities.
There is a right way to bring the nations together as one, serving God, worshipping
together, all equal before God neither Greek or Jew etc.
Then there is a wrong manipulative condescending, power hungry threatening way to bring the
nations together in the form of the EU. Where the only thing that matters is power, money,
greed and the false idea of us all been in it together. That is what communism was based on
but that failed as while everyone is suppose to be equal. There will always be some who are
more equal than others with money at the core of determining the hierarchy and power base.
Incidentally if you want to really see what a fully functioning multi national church looks
like all one before God. See the link below. But give me a moment first to post a
couple of pictures.
http://christianchat.com/testimonies/111548-god-has-provided-20-million-church.html
are labelled racist).
There are those who would prefer to put their trust in the EU.
When the results of the vote were announced I felt that something spiritually lifted
off this country and I know other Christians who felt the same too.
We are accountable to God not the EU. I'm not saying the UK is a Godly nation,
we do need to pray that Godly leaders will be raised up and make a stand for what
is right. This is something we could never even hope to achieve while members of
the EU, as the EU legislation over rules that of all member states.
Ive seen first hand in my job as a civil servant, how EU legislation had crept into UK
legislation. That is why it will take at least two years to untangle ourselves.
Ps I'm not racist I'm mixed race myself. I go to a church with over 40 different
nationalities.
There is a right way to bring the nations together as one, serving God, worshipping
together, all equal before God neither Greek or Jew etc.
Then there is a wrong manipulative condescending, power hungry threatening way to bring the
nations together in the form of the EU. Where the only thing that matters is power, money,
greed and the false idea of us all been in it together. That is what communism was based on
but that failed as while everyone is suppose to be equal. There will always be some who are
more equal than others with money at the core of determining the hierarchy and power base.
Incidentally if you want to really see what a fully functioning multi national church looks
like all one before God. See the link below. But give me a moment first to post a
couple of pictures.
http://christianchat.com/testimonies/111548-god-has-provided-20-million-church.html
A common foundation in faith is what has first brought us together with our women. The rest simply followed. The cultural trappings are funny, interesting, and sometimes frustrating differences.
That is, incidentally part of why Britain came together to begin with. Those three crosses signify a common reverence for Christ and recognize the Christian faith as the bedrock of a beautiful order.
I'm sure there are racists in Britain, but they certainly do not speak for the majority of "small c" conservatives and vote Leave-ers.
UKIP are a right wing party. The reason why we got the referendum is because it was splitting the conservative party, and to stop this breakdown, it was needed. And the migrant crisis is real and a real problem.
The difficulty I had was people saying the EU was wrong. Every example was actually a good thing, but put in such a way it appeared bad. Everything related to leaving the EU were getting control of borders and getting back some money.
But both are probably untrue. We trade so much with the EU we have to get the EU to agree whether we are part of it or just a trading partner. The money involved was minor compared to the whole international relationships.
So in reality there is not really a victory or a loss, just a continuing discussion about some serious issues.
The whole exercise is probably going to make the UK more involved in Europe, because until now few people really cared.
But the younger generation are now angry. In family after family they argued with their parents, not just passively.
People are now looking at how the EU works and what it actually means. In London we are now asking, who are we, what do we really care about? On top of this Scotland want to go independent, so the UK will end, literally.
So what was it all about? We want to run our country. Well rarely have any political party ever represented my views.
So something are more propoganda than reality.
UKIP and the type of representatives it has attracted are all right wing people close to BNP etc.
Now I know a lot of UKIP supporter or voters are protest voters. So I specifically did not call supports of leave or UKIP supports were racist, just Farage. He will sink without trace because his one vision is now over, and it will also be irrelevant.
The difficulty I had was people saying the EU was wrong. Every example was actually a good thing, but put in such a way it appeared bad. Everything related to leaving the EU were getting control of borders and getting back some money.
But both are probably untrue. We trade so much with the EU we have to get the EU to agree whether we are part of it or just a trading partner. The money involved was minor compared to the whole international relationships.
So in reality there is not really a victory or a loss, just a continuing discussion about some serious issues.
The whole exercise is probably going to make the UK more involved in Europe, because until now few people really cared.
But the younger generation are now angry. In family after family they argued with their parents, not just passively.
People are now looking at how the EU works and what it actually means. In London we are now asking, who are we, what do we really care about? On top of this Scotland want to go independent, so the UK will end, literally.
So what was it all about? We want to run our country. Well rarely have any political party ever represented my views.
So something are more propoganda than reality.
UKIP and the type of representatives it has attracted are all right wing people close to BNP etc.
Now I know a lot of UKIP supporter or voters are protest voters. So I specifically did not call supports of leave or UKIP supports were racist, just Farage. He will sink without trace because his one vision is now over, and it will also be irrelevant.
You would be right at home in the EU parliament, you certainly know how to turn a blind eye and distort the truth.
FIrst of all, the only reason we had this referendum was due to the popularity of UKIP. All the political parties were scared of UKIP, scared they might win the election and take us out of the EU and thereby instantly costing everyone an obscene wage on the EU gravy train when they were finished with national politics and wanted to retire on something substantial.
Cameron promised the UK a referendum if they elected him, he made that very clear and no doubt that won him the election, it would only have taken another few percent swing and UKIP could have easily held the balance of power.
A few years of staling and putting off the referendum, Cameron had to finally go with it and we know the result.
Oh you missed out the main reason why most people voted, it was to regain our national identity and soverignty. Regain all of our laws and right to self rule again. We can now fish our seas as much as we like without having to allow 80% of our fish to be taken by Spanish mega trawlers. We can regain control of our farming and....welll the list is endless.
I suppose you will be happy to see everything being taken from this nation, just as long as you can get on EuroStar and enjoy a night out in your multi-cultural utopia. I could not care less about trips to Europe I do not want to live in Europe, I want to live in the UK were our government can actually do something about protecting our rights, our industry and sovereignty.
Finally Farage is not racist, can you give me one example of racism that has been demonstrated by Farage.
FIrst of all, the only reason we had this referendum was due to the popularity of UKIP. All the political parties were scared of UKIP, scared they might win the election and take us out of the EU and thereby instantly costing everyone an obscene wage on the EU gravy train when they were finished with national politics and wanted to retire on something substantial.
Cameron promised the UK a referendum if they elected him, he made that very clear and no doubt that won him the election, it would only have taken another few percent swing and UKIP could have easily held the balance of power.
A few years of staling and putting off the referendum, Cameron had to finally go with it and we know the result.
Oh you missed out the main reason why most people voted, it was to regain our national identity and soverignty. Regain all of our laws and right to self rule again. We can now fish our seas as much as we like without having to allow 80% of our fish to be taken by Spanish mega trawlers. We can regain control of our farming and....welll the list is endless.
I suppose you will be happy to see everything being taken from this nation, just as long as you can get on EuroStar and enjoy a night out in your multi-cultural utopia. I could not care less about trips to Europe I do not want to live in Europe, I want to live in the UK were our government can actually do something about protecting our rights, our industry and sovereignty.
Finally Farage is not racist, can you give me one example of racism that has been demonstrated by Farage.
M
Anyone that expresses a conservative thought or holds any traditional ideas or uses rational thinking is subject to be branded a racist .. Most people don't even think the word really means anything anymore and most conservatives in America , just laugh when a liberal makes that charge against anyone. The true racist and bigots are the folks these people are trying to allow to flood into our countries.
I want to point out a contradiction in your statement here. Islam wants to destroy the jews, the Whahabbi or Salafi forms of the faith specifically as well as Shia Islam. This makes up 25% approx of the total muslim community.
If you want to engage with the world you need to engage with love and justice.
Islam believes in neither, just their own idiology.
The UK and the USA have to trade with the world, and the world needs to develop and bring technology and life to its citizens. We are called to be salt and light to this world, no more or less. Islam is just another idiology over which love and victory need to be demonstrated.
If you manage to understand how an idiology takes over and destroys another, you have a way to take it down.
We know how Hitler operated and worked. Islam is no different and many have found a way to defeat it.
But here on cc it appears many have not really found Jesus's love in their hearts, purifying and making them whole.
So little wonder they see this as one religion fighting another and are scared.
But why such fear for perfect love casts out fear.
Islam is just labels, and a mirage or impression which the believer form in their own mind.
Once you understand how fake it all is it evaporates. So how deep is your faith in Jesus?
If you want to engage with the world you need to engage with love and justice.
Islam believes in neither, just their own idiology.
The UK and the USA have to trade with the world, and the world needs to develop and bring technology and life to its citizens. We are called to be salt and light to this world, no more or less. Islam is just another idiology over which love and victory need to be demonstrated.
If you manage to understand how an idiology takes over and destroys another, you have a way to take it down.
We know how Hitler operated and worked. Islam is no different and many have found a way to defeat it.
But here on cc it appears many have not really found Jesus's love in their hearts, purifying and making them whole.
So little wonder they see this as one religion fighting another and are scared.
But why such fear for perfect love casts out fear.
Islam is just labels, and a mirage or impression which the believer form in their own mind.
Once you understand how fake it all is it evaporates. So how deep is your faith in Jesus?
It is an interesting idea, communism by stealth.
Have you ever played civilisation computer games. You have to grow a society. What you discover is societies grow through interaction of people and needs. As the needs develop so do the markets and jobs. It is organic and it means everyone benefits.
But to make this work you need both social structures, governments to bring rules and justice and free markets were goods can compete. Now this is neither total capitalism or socialism, but a mixture of the two.
This is why it becomes so complex, and there are always tensions between the players. But that is life.
If you get scared and simplify too much, it all falls apart.
So yes you will always find things expressing one perspective or another. That is why we have the alternative governments, conservative and labour, presenting the different emphasis we need at a particular point in time.
What works is this discussion, the tension expressed and worked through to a compromise. That is democracy, it is why it works because it is the best of the perspectives from across the whole community.
Have you ever played civilisation computer games. You have to grow a society. What you discover is societies grow through interaction of people and needs. As the needs develop so do the markets and jobs. It is organic and it means everyone benefits.
But to make this work you need both social structures, governments to bring rules and justice and free markets were goods can compete. Now this is neither total capitalism or socialism, but a mixture of the two.
This is why it becomes so complex, and there are always tensions between the players. But that is life.
If you get scared and simplify too much, it all falls apart.
So yes you will always find things expressing one perspective or another. That is why we have the alternative governments, conservative and labour, presenting the different emphasis we need at a particular point in time.
What works is this discussion, the tension expressed and worked through to a compromise. That is democracy, it is why it works because it is the best of the perspectives from across the whole community.
M
Wow have just been looking at the EU website did you know that they call
their legislation "the pillars" I don't know why, but that name just
disturbs me. I wonder if they took the name from the five pillars of Islam.
Couldnt they have called it something else?
This is from a 2001 link
BBC NEWS | In Depth | Euro-glossary | European Union
Officially, the European Union only exists since the early 1990s, although
the term has been used for much longer than that. The Maastricht Treaty renamed the European Community the European Union
by forming what are known as the three pillars of the EU.
They are:
The first pillar is managed by the institutions of the EU, while the second
and third work through inter-governmental co-operation.
The first pillar is responsible for the single market and freedom of movement
across borders. It also looks after economic and monetary union and issues
such as agriculture, environment and competition.
In this pillar, unlike the other two, member states have given up some of their
sovereignty and EU institutions can act independently of the national governments.
In the second pillar, member states aim to hold common positions and take joint
action on foreign and security affairs.
The objective of the Justice and Home Affairs pillar is to integrate member states'
policies on asylum and immigration, customs, drugs and crime.
Here is the fourth pillar announced this year,
European pillar of social rights.
Towards a European Pillar of Social Rights | European Commission
Wonder what the fifth pillar will be when it comes. It gives me the creeps a bit
that they have decided to use the same Islamic terminology. I wonder if they
have done that deliberately.
their legislation "the pillars" I don't know why, but that name just
disturbs me. I wonder if they took the name from the five pillars of Islam.
Couldnt they have called it something else?
This is from a 2001 link
BBC NEWS | In Depth | Euro-glossary | European Union
Officially, the European Union only exists since the early 1990s, although
the term has been used for much longer than that. The Maastricht Treaty renamed the European Community the European Union
by forming what are known as the three pillars of the EU.
They are:
- European Community
- Common Foreign and Security Policy
- Justice and Home Affairs
The first pillar is managed by the institutions of the EU, while the second
and third work through inter-governmental co-operation.
The first pillar is responsible for the single market and freedom of movement
across borders. It also looks after economic and monetary union and issues
such as agriculture, environment and competition.
In this pillar, unlike the other two, member states have given up some of their
sovereignty and EU institutions can act independently of the national governments.
In the second pillar, member states aim to hold common positions and take joint
action on foreign and security affairs.
The objective of the Justice and Home Affairs pillar is to integrate member states'
policies on asylum and immigration, customs, drugs and crime.
Here is the fourth pillar announced this year,
European pillar of social rights.
Towards a European Pillar of Social Rights | European Commission
Wonder what the fifth pillar will be when it comes. It gives me the creeps a bit
that they have decided to use the same Islamic terminology. I wonder if they
have done that deliberately.
We do not use the word pillars much and everytime you hear about islam, the five pillars are often mentioned.
It is probably this association that helps you link the ideas.
Islam loves using pro and anti language. A neat trick is "you know in your heart it is true"
In reality until you know what they are talking about no one has a clue, but because you empathise with the speaker, often you will say yes. It is like me saying you know in your heart you love Jesus?
Now we do not use this idea, because Jesus specifically waited till people knew Him before he asked them to respond.
This is a big difference. Islam has always been about religious show, while Jesus about the heart.
It is probably this association that helps you link the ideas.
Islam loves using pro and anti language. A neat trick is "you know in your heart it is true"
In reality until you know what they are talking about no one has a clue, but because you empathise with the speaker, often you will say yes. It is like me saying you know in your heart you love Jesus?
Now we do not use this idea, because Jesus specifically waited till people knew Him before he asked them to respond.
This is a big difference. Islam has always been about religious show, while Jesus about the heart.
M
I'm not sure of your point other than you seem to want to accuse godly and peaceful people of being evil bigots and racist, while you try to excuse the most ungodly, violent and racist groups on the planet. The idea that in the name of speaking against racism you would defend and bring in thousands upon thousands of the most violent racist in the world ...is pure and utter insanity. Defending these people is not "good" its "evil" and making charges against other righteous Christians while you defend these monsters is the very work of satan.
M
No, if anything there is no one to stop them or make them think twice.
The UK was the restraining hand and the voice of reason.
France was the country that just was obnoxious towards the Brits and sneered at our funny
ways and "obstickles" we put in the way. Whatever way the UK went, the French politicians
just seemed to what to do the opposite. I think they are just fed up with the migrant Calais
crises even though they signed up and agreed to hold the migrants on their turf. This was a
separate deal between the UK and France and not a mandate from the EU.
Germany is the power which keeps everything moving at break neck speed. Now with no UK
to put the breaks on, just stand back and watch the snowball effect now. You think things
moved quick before, you haven't seen anything yet.
Poland always respected and sided with the U.K but they are not brave enough to take
on the UK "restraining hand" position.
The other countries grumble and rumble on but pretty much do as they are told. At least pre
Brexit. Maybe they will start to look more closely at what is happening.
People are saying the Brexit will trigger other countries to leave the EU and the EU will
break up. That is not the case, with every country that leaves, Germany will gain more
power. The Eastern block and poorer countries especially will not leave as they get the most
from the EU.
Germany in trying to avoid past mistakes, the holacaust etc, and is opening the borders to
everyone and anyone as a result - a big mistake.
There is still the possibility of Turkey joining the EU, despite its
deplorable human rights record and mistreatment of woman. There is no way Turkey
could ever meet the EU human rights act, but as the migrants are steaming across Turkey
the EU is making financial deals with them. Turkey still has a long way to go but it will be
interesting to see if the EU relaxes some of its standards for Turkey due to the migrant
problem from Syria.
Let in Turkey, and by default you open the doors to all the countries in that neck of the
woods including Syria, Iran, Iraq, Isreal etc. In other words Turkey opens up the
border to the Middle East. How will Turkey manage their borders?
All people would have to do is cross into Turkey get a Turkish passport then they would be
free to travel across all EU member states unrestricted. You think terrorism is bad now, wait
and see if Turkey makes it into the EU, it may be a couple of years yet. But as the EU is
already paying them lots of cash , I think it will happen eventually.
PS it looks like Cameron wanted Turkey to join, along with Germany, they obviously
considered this was a solution to the migrant crises. Ie let them all stay in Turkey and pay
them billions of EU money to police the migrants and control the border.
Ps the second link is just for the map, ignore the bit about prehistoric cave men lol
By the way I'm no expert on this, it's just that I did a lot of home work before voting.
I wanted to make a reasoned decision when I voted, but if anyone has a different
angle or I have got any of this wrong, then I would gladly be corrected.
The EU's embrace of Turkey could drive Britain out - Telegraph
Europe Map / Map of Europe - Facts, Geography, History of Europe - Worldatlas.com
The UK was the restraining hand and the voice of reason.
France was the country that just was obnoxious towards the Brits and sneered at our funny
ways and "obstickles" we put in the way. Whatever way the UK went, the French politicians
just seemed to what to do the opposite. I think they are just fed up with the migrant Calais
crises even though they signed up and agreed to hold the migrants on their turf. This was a
separate deal between the UK and France and not a mandate from the EU.
Germany is the power which keeps everything moving at break neck speed. Now with no UK
to put the breaks on, just stand back and watch the snowball effect now. You think things
moved quick before, you haven't seen anything yet.
Poland always respected and sided with the U.K but they are not brave enough to take
on the UK "restraining hand" position.
The other countries grumble and rumble on but pretty much do as they are told. At least pre
Brexit. Maybe they will start to look more closely at what is happening.
People are saying the Brexit will trigger other countries to leave the EU and the EU will
break up. That is not the case, with every country that leaves, Germany will gain more
power. The Eastern block and poorer countries especially will not leave as they get the most
from the EU.
Germany in trying to avoid past mistakes, the holacaust etc, and is opening the borders to
everyone and anyone as a result - a big mistake.
There is still the possibility of Turkey joining the EU, despite its
deplorable human rights record and mistreatment of woman. There is no way Turkey
could ever meet the EU human rights act, but as the migrants are steaming across Turkey
the EU is making financial deals with them. Turkey still has a long way to go but it will be
interesting to see if the EU relaxes some of its standards for Turkey due to the migrant
problem from Syria.
Let in Turkey, and by default you open the doors to all the countries in that neck of the
woods including Syria, Iran, Iraq, Isreal etc. In other words Turkey opens up the
border to the Middle East. How will Turkey manage their borders?
All people would have to do is cross into Turkey get a Turkish passport then they would be
free to travel across all EU member states unrestricted. You think terrorism is bad now, wait
and see if Turkey makes it into the EU, it may be a couple of years yet. But as the EU is
already paying them lots of cash , I think it will happen eventually.
PS it looks like Cameron wanted Turkey to join, along with Germany, they obviously
considered this was a solution to the migrant crises. Ie let them all stay in Turkey and pay
them billions of EU money to police the migrants and control the border.
Ps the second link is just for the map, ignore the bit about prehistoric cave men lol
By the way I'm no expert on this, it's just that I did a lot of home work before voting.
I wanted to make a reasoned decision when I voted, but if anyone has a different
angle or I have got any of this wrong, then I would gladly be corrected.
The EU's embrace of Turkey could drive Britain out - Telegraph
Europe Map / Map of Europe - Facts, Geography, History of Europe - Worldatlas.com
Eu open phase to Turkey membership. Looks like Turkey joining might happen
sooner rather than later. News article today.
EU opens new phase in Turkey membership bid talks - BBC News