Contradiction of WORDS

[dcontroversal]

Wow! If your definition of Apostolic or Oral Tradition is true, I wouldn't like it either. But I am not talking about Sacred Tradition (properly defined). I am talking about Martin Luther's invention of "Bible-alone theology", or sola scriptura. It showed up relatively late in the history of Christianity, it has caused numerous division so it doesn't work, it's not found in the Bible, and it is unreasonable.

2nd Timothy 3:16-17 ALL scripture is given by Inspiration of GOD and is profitable...

The Bible also teaches that God uses the following to teach

1. The invisible things<--testify to his power and Godhead Romans 1:20
2. The sun, moon and stars <--Genesis 1:14
3. The heavens, day unto day and night unto night<---Psalm 19:1-4
4. Peter tells us to be mindful to the Holy Prophets and Apostles 2nd Peter 3:1-3

God has made the wisdom of men foolish and the bible is the bible's best commentary
God said all men are liars and only God the truth
God said the faith (system of teaching found in the bible) has been delivered ONCE unto the saints (Jude)
Jesus said religious men will teach for the commandments of God the doctrines (teachings of men) and in so doing makes VOID (without effect) the word of God...

It is biblical to hold the word of God above any and all suppositions, guesses, superstition, the tradition of men, the ideas of men etc.

The Word of God is all that is needed in my view.....and the bible does teach one central truth concerning everything...the reason there is division is being blind to truth, ignorant of truth, rejection of truth and a denial of truth in favor of the traditions, ideas and promotions of men.

 

[elf3]

[SUP]John 20: 22 [/SUP]And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord "breathes" divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place. What did Jesus say next?

John 20:23 - "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

Jesus is passing HIS authority to the Apostles, so where does Jesus get his authority from?

John 20:21 - before He grants them the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to the apostles, "as the Father sent me, so I send you."

So far, we have established that:
The Father sends Jesus,
Jesus sends the Apostles.

Next we should establish whether Jesus founded a living, teaching, authoritive Church that thrived for some 20 years without one verse of New Testament scripture, and had no universally accepted Bible as we know it for over 350 years. The Bible is a subset of Apostolic Teaching, not the other way around. I don't mean to offend anyone here, but "Bible-based church" just means a rejection of what the early Church believed and practiced, as witnessed by the Early Church Fathers, some of whom were trained by the Apostles themselves. You might find a few snippets from them that are questionable, but there consensus is not.
Is there an authority outside the Bible? We have been debating this for 500 years. It's really a stupid question because the Bible and the Church say the same thing. Removing the Bible from the Church is asking for trouble. That's what Arius did. That's what Nestorius did, and Pelagius and every heretic in the patristic period.
The authority of the Church does not compete with or supplant the authority of the Bible. But something with divine protection must exist to ensure what was passed on was the Truth, before the books of the Bible were ratified by the Church. It took 3 centuries and 4 councils to discern inspired books from fake ones. They weren't assumed to be inspired, they had to be proven to be inspired. "test all things", but against what? a New Testament that didn't yet fully exist? Against Apostolic Teaching that's what. It can be historically demonstrated, using Protestant sources, the timeline of acceptance of New Testament books.
The Bible didn't produce a church, The Church proved, compiled, preserved and read aloud from the Bible.
To summarize: without the authority of the Church, there would be no Bible, and they are not in competition.

Here's a question for you. By the bible alone, how do we know there should be 27 books in the New Testament? Is there an inspired table of contents?

John 20:22 "And with that HE BREATHED ON THEM and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit".

2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture IS GOD BREATHED and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness".

There is a difference between the "breath" of God, as referred to, in these two passages. In John it is the receiving of the Holy Spirit and in Timothy it is the very Word of God. John says the disciples were "breathed on"...not "God-breathed".

Yes there were councils of men who "proved" which writtings are part of God's Word. Pretty neat to if you study how they went about it. But you cannot put the church on the same level as God's Word. Men chose the Bible but God approved it. If God didn't approve of what the Bible was composed of do you not think He would have had us change it by now? The "divine protection" of the Bible is God, not the church.

 

[dcontroversal]

John 20:22 "And with that HE BREATHED ON THEM and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit".

2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture IS GOD BREATHED and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness".

There is a difference between the "breath" of God, as referred to, in these two passages. In John it is the receiving of the Holy Spirit and in Timothy it is the very Word of God. John says the disciples were "breathed on"...not "God-breathed".

Yes there were councils of men who "proved" which writtings are part of God's Word. Pretty neat to if you study how they went about it. But you cannot put the church on the same level as God's Word. Men chose the Bible but God approved it. If God didn't approve of what the Bible was composed of do you not think He would have had us change it by now? The "divine protection" of the Bible is God, not the church.

No doubt I agree with you about the word.....but it does say that the Lord's churches (the ones that teach the truth) are the pillar and ground of the truth as found in 1st Timothy 3:15. Just a thought or two bro....!

 

[elf3]

No doubt I agree with you about the word.....but it does say that the Lord's churches (the ones that teach the truth) are the pillar and ground of the truth as found in 1st Timothy 3:15. Just a thought or two bro....!

But what are those pillars built upon? The Word of God. So where does the truth really lay? In the church or the Word of God? What I am saying is that the church isn't the final authority on truth. The Gospel of Christ is truth. "I am the way the TRUTH and the life" John 14:6. When the church starts putting itself ahead of the Bible as authority then..."Houston we have a problem"

This is what we see happening in churches today on a grand scale.

 

[dcontroversal]

But what are those pillars built upon? The Word of God. So where does the truth really lay? In the church or the Word of God? What I am saying is that the church isn't the final authority on truth. The Gospel of Christ is truth. "I am the way the TRUTH and the life" John 14:6. When the church starts putting itself ahead of the Bible as authority then..."Houston we have a problem"

This is what we see happening in churches today on a grand scale.

No doubt and I agree with you and why I wrote the following...note the bolded brother...!

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

No doubt I agree with you about the word.....but it does say that the Lord's churches (the ones that teach the truth) are the pillar and ground of the truth as found in 1st Timothy 3:15. Just a thought or two bro....!

Another point is what Jesus said about his churches...What you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and what you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven....Just a few more points bro......!

 

[kepha]

No doubt I agree with you about the word.....but it does say that the Lord's churches (the ones that teach the truth) are the pillar and ground of the truth as found in 1st Timothy 3:15. Just a thought or two bro....!

No, it says the house of God is the pillar and ground of truth, not an incompleted book.

But what are those pillars built upon? The Word of God. So where does the truth really lay? In the church or the Word of God? What I am saying is that the church isn't the final authority on truth. The Gospel of Christ is truth. "I am the way the TRUTH and the life" John 14:6. When the church starts putting itself ahead of the Bible as authority then..."Houston we have a problem"

It doesn't say the pillar and ground of truth is on a book. It says the house of God, which is the Church. I don't separate the Church from the Bible, you do.

This is what we see happening in churches today on a grand scale.

Protestant divisions are the result of 2 things, sola scriptura and no unifying Eucharist. On a grand scale.

No doubt and I agree with you and why I wrote the following...note the bolded brother...!

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

No doubt I agree with you about the word.....but it does say that the Lord's churches (the ones that teach the truth) are the pillar and ground of the truth as found in 1st Timothy 3:15. Just a thought or two bro....!

Well, back then, there were localized communities, but their were no denominations and they all believed the same things.
A

nother point is what Jesus said about his churches...What you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and what you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven....Just a few more points bro......!

No, He said that to Peter.

2 Tim 3:
[14] But as for you, continue in what you have learned (TRADITION) and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it (MAGISTERIUM)
[15] and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings (SCRIPTURE) which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in
righteousness,
[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Sola scripturists avoid verse 14 and 15 because it demolishes their position.

The Bible on St. Paul's list comes in third, not first. He actually gives here the traditional Catholic
teaching on the three sources of sound teaching. In verse 15 he goes into an excursus on the Bible. This brief excursus emphasizes the value of the Bible and recommends a fourfold method of exegesis. This verse was used as a proof text for the Quadriga which was the standard Catholic approach to the Bible.
The Quadriga method used the following four categories:

Literal/Literary (teaching) - the text as it is written
Analogical (reproof) - matters of faith
Anagogical (correction) - matters of hope/prophecy
Moral (training in righteousness) - matters of charity

The so called reformers rejected all this and instead adopted a more literal approach to biblical
exegesis, and Martin Luther was rejected by his contemporaries for ignoring 2 Timothy 3:16.

Verse 16 says "all scripture". It does not say "only scripture". St. Paul cannot be referring to a Bible that had not even been completed, he was referring to the Old Testament. This is common sense.

Nowhere in the whole Bible is "man of God" any individual bible reader, it is an ordained clergyman, or one who is called directly by God, accompanied by signs and wonders.

 

[dcontroversal]

No, it says the house of God is the pillar and ground of truth, not an incompleted book.


It doesn't say the pillar and ground of truth is on a book. It says the house of God, which is the Church. I don't separate the Church from the Bible, you do.


Protestant divisions are the result of 2 things, sola scriptura and no unifying Eucharist. On a grand scale.

No doubt and I agree with you and why I wrote the following...note the bolded brother...!

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Well, back then, there were localized communities, but their were no denominations and they all believed the same things.
A
No, He said that to Peter.

2 Tim 3:
[14] But as for you, continue in what you have learned (TRADITION) and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it (MAGISTERIUM)
[15] and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings (SCRIPTURE) which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in
righteousness,
[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Sola scripturists avoid verse 14 and 15 because it demolishes their position.

The Bible on St. Paul's list comes in third, not first. He actually gives here the traditional Catholic
teaching on the three sources of sound teaching. In verse 15 he goes into an excursus on the Bible. This brief excursus emphasizes the value of the Bible and recommends a fourfold method of exegesis. This verse was used as a proof text for the Quadriga which was the standard Catholic approach to the Bible.
The Quadriga method used the following four categories:

Literal/Literary (teaching) - the text as it is written
Analogical (reproof) - matters of faith
Anagogical (correction) - matters of hope/prophecy
Moral (training in righteousness) - matters of charity

The so called reformers rejected all this and instead adopted a more literal approach to biblical
exegesis, and Martin Luther was rejected by his contemporaries for ignoring 2 Timothy 3:16.

Verse 16 says "all scripture". It does not say "only scripture". St. Paul cannot be referring to a Bible that had not even been completed, he was referring to the Old Testament. This is common sense.

Nowhere in the whole Bible is "man of God" any individual bible reader, it is an ordained clergyman, or one who is called directly by God, accompanied by signs and wonders.

No offence, but Catholic dogma will never change my mind about the things I am fully persuaded of in my mind.....a religion that worships...

1. Bleeding statues of Mary
2. Mere men (popes)
3. Finger nail clippings, bone fragments, hair samples and blood
4. The statues of men

While telling me I can buy indulgences and have people prayed into heaven for a price has a lot to understand and work on before it ever gets even close to understanding the truth about the completed word of God as found within the bible....

EVEN concerning salvation they reject the truth and teach the dogma of men and religion (7 sacraments)......If the root is flawed...the rest is flawed as each theology to be learned and grasped is based upon the preceding theologies.....!

Like I said...NO OFFENCE and I am not being mouthy, just stating where I stand....

 

[elf3]

No, it says the house of God is the pillar and ground of truth, not an incompleted book.


It doesn't say the pillar and ground of truth is on a book. It says the house of God, which is the Church. I don't separate the Church from the Bible, you do.


Protestant divisions are the result of 2 things, sola scriptura and no unifying Eucharist. On a grand scale.

No doubt and I agree with you and why I wrote the following...note the bolded brother...!

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Well, back then, there were localized communities, but their were no denominations and they all believed the same things.
A
No, He said that to Peter.

2 Tim 3:
[14] But as for you, continue in what you have learned (TRADITION) and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it (MAGISTERIUM)
[15] and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings (SCRIPTURE) which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in
righteousness,
[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Sola scripturists avoid verse 14 and 15 because it demolishes their position.

The Bible on St. Paul's list comes in third, not first. He actually gives here the traditional Catholic
teaching on the three sources of sound teaching. In verse 15 he goes into an excursus on the Bible. This brief excursus emphasizes the value of the Bible and recommends a fourfold method of exegesis. This verse was used as a proof text for the Quadriga which was the standard Catholic approach to the Bible.
The Quadriga method used the following four categories:

Literal/Literary (teaching) - the text as it is written
Analogical (reproof) - matters of faith
Anagogical (correction) - matters of hope/prophecy
Moral (training in righteousness) - matters of charity

The so called reformers rejected all this and instead adopted a more literal approach to biblical
exegesis, and Martin Luther was rejected by his contemporaries for ignoring 2 Timothy 3:16.

Verse 16 says "all scripture". It does not say "only scripture". St. Paul cannot be referring to a Bible that had not even been completed, he was referring to the Old Testament. This is common sense.

Nowhere in the whole Bible is "man of God" any individual bible reader, it is an ordained clergyman, or one who is called directly by God, accompanied by signs and wonders.

Wow kepha with what you have written here I don't know where to begin.

How about this..the body of believers is the church NOT the Catholic Church alone (because there are some real believers in the Catholic church)

 

[kepha]

No, it says the house of God is the pillar and ground of truth, not an incompleted book.


It doesn't say the pillar and ground of truth is on a book. It says the house of God, which is the Church. I don't separate the Church from the Bible, you do.


Protestant divisions are the result of 2 things, sola scriptura and no unifying Eucharist. On a grand scale.



No offence, but Catholic dogma will never change my mind about the things I am fully persuaded of in my mind.....a religion that worships...

1. Bleeding statues of Mary
2. Mere men (popes)
3. Finger nail clippings, bone fragments, hair samples and blood
4. The statues of men

While telling me I can buy indulgences and have people prayed into heaven for a price has a lot to understand and work on before it ever gets even close to understanding the truth about the completed word of God as found within the bible....

EVEN concerning salvation they reject the truth and teach the dogma of men and religion (7 sacraments)......If the root is flawed...the rest is flawed as each theology to be learned and grasped is based upon the preceding theologies.....!

Like I said...NO OFFENCE and I am not being mouthy, just stating where I stand....

You cannot deal with the biblical truths I have presented, so you come up with rabbit holes that have nothing to do with what I posted. One could never "buy" an indulgence that is one of many myths propagated by anti-Catholics. You should click on that link and find out what it really means and you won't come across as being totally ignorant. What offends me is anti-Catholic bigots making things up about what I believe, and stubbornly remaining deaf and blind to any reasonable explanation. Can I get reason from you?
Is this your defense of sola scriptura?

 

[kepha]

No, it says the house of God is the pillar and ground of truth, not an incompleted book.

It doesn't say the pillar and ground of truth is on a book. It says the house of God, which is the Church. I don't separate the Church from the Bible, you do.

Protestant divisions are the result of 2 things, sola scriptura and no unifying Eucharist. On a grand scale.

Wow kepha with what you have written here I don't know where to begin.

How about this..the body of believers is the church NOT the Catholic Church alone (because there are some real believers in the Catholic church)

The Catholic Church did not invent sola scriptura (which fragmented Protestantism) and you fail to understand how The Catholic Church defines herself. She sees other churches a "separated brethren", part of the Church but with varying degrees of separation, She includes all baptized Christians as part of the Catholic Church, (their objections have no bearing on this)on the basis of the truths that are followed, and there are many.
"No salvation outside the Church" was delivered to a local group of heretics (Paulicans, I think) in France a few hundred years before the first Protestant was born, so the phrase doesn't even apply to Protestants. But the term was outdated and needed to be reformulated to include all Christians because radical traditionalists were making a stink about it.
I've been churches where if you don't follow their particular slogans (that are not in the bible) you are not a Christian. This is exclusive, where the Catholic Church is more inclusive than any church on the planet.

I maintain my position: sola scriptura is not biblical, not rooted anywhere in history before the 15th century, has destroyed Protestant unity therefore it cannot work, is illogical, is man made, and has no defense.

 

[elf3]

The Catholic Church did not invent sola scriptura (which fragmented Protestantism) and you fail to understand how The Catholic Church defines herself. She sees other churches a "separated brethren", part of the Church but with varying degrees of separation, She includes all baptized Christians as part of the Catholic Church, (their objections have no bearing on this)on the basis of the truths that are followed, and there are many.
"No salvation outside the Church" was delivered to a local group of heretics (Paulicans, I think) in France a few hundred years before the first Protestant was born, so the phrase doesn't even apply to Protestants. But the term was outdated and needed to be reformulated to include all Christians because radical traditionalists were making a stink about it.
I've been churches where if you don't follow their particular slogans (that are not in the bible) you are not a Christian. This is exclusive, where the Catholic Church is more inclusive than any church on the planet.

I maintain my position: sola scriptura is not biblical, not rooted anywhere in history before the 15th century, has destroyed Protestant unity therefore it cannot work, is illogical, is man made, and has no

Yeah your right the Catholic Church didn't invent sola scriptura they invented other things way outside Biblical teaching such as "the disciples are God breathed" as you put it (which I proved you wrong on) and the divinity of Mary and that to be forgiven of sins you have to confess to some priest.

What else you got?

 

[Kerry]

The Catholic Church did not invent sola scriptura (which fragmented Protestantism) and you fail to understand how The Catholic Church defines herself. She sees other churches a "separated brethren", part of the Church but with varying degrees of separation, She includes all baptized Christians as part of the Catholic Church, (their objections have no bearing on this)on the basis of the truths that are followed, and there are many.
"No salvation outside the Church" was delivered to a local group of heretics (Paulicans, I think) in France a few hundred years before the first Protestant was born, so the phrase doesn't even apply to Protestants. But the term was outdated and needed to be reformulated to include all Christians because radical traditionalists were making a stink about it.
I've been churches where if you don't follow their particular slogans (that are not in the bible) you are not a Christian. This is exclusive, where the Catholic Church is more inclusive than any church on the planet.

I maintain my position: sola scriptura is not biblical, not rooted anywhere in history before the 15th century, has destroyed Protestant unity therefore it cannot work, is illogical, is man made, and has no

Yeah your right the Catholic Church didn't invent sola scriptura they invented other things way outside Biblical teaching such as "the disciples are God breathed" as you put it (which I proved you wrong on) and the divinity of Mary and that to be forgiven of sins you have to confess to some priest.

What else you got?

Thats the leadership of the Catholic church, their are many Catholics that love God and are being misled. Just as the Assembly of God is abandoning it's roots which is Azuza Street and turning against the book of the history of the AOG. why because they no longer preach the cross but rather Psychology and God will have nothing to do with it. Azuza street was Methodist and then they refused it and now their doing yoga.

 

[elf3]

Thats the leadership of the Catholic church, their are many Catholics that love God and are being misled. Just as the Assembly of God is abandoning it's roots which is Azuza Street and turning against the book of the history of the AOG. why because they no longer preach the cross but rather Psychology and God will have nothing to do with it. Azuza street was Methodist and then they refused it and now their doing yoga.

I even noted a couple posts ago that there are true believers within the Catholic church. And yep within any "church" there are those misled but to say the Catholic Church is basically "above" any other denomination is wrong.

 

[kepha]

Yeah your right the Catholic Church didn't invent sola scriptura they invented other things way outside Biblical teaching

It is impossible for the Church to invent doctrines against the Bible. Elaborate with reasonable grounds kor your assertions are meaningless. And this has nothing to do with the false doctrine of sola scriptura.

such as "the disciples are God breathed" as you put it (which I proved you wrong on)

You didn't prove me wrong, I didn't reply because your "refutation" was so lame.

John 20
English Standard Version (ESV)[SUP]19 [/SUP]On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews,[SUP][c][/SUP] Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” [SUP]20 [/SUP]When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” [SUP]22 [/SUP]And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. [SUP]23 [/SUP]If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

ἐνεφύσησεν, emphysáō (from 1722 /en, "in" and physaō, "breathe, blow") – properly, breathe (blow) in. 1720 (emphysáō) is only used in Jn 20:22 where Christ breathed into the apostles. By "breathing in Christ's inbreathing," 1720 (emphysáō) prefigures "the promise of the Father," fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost (Lk 24:49; Ac 1:4; Ac 2:1f).

theopneustos [TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]breathed[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐνεφύσησεν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]enephusēsen[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1720[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to breathe into or upon[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from en and phusaó (to blow)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
2315 theópneustos (from 2316 /theós, "God" and 4154 /pnéō, "breathe out") – properly, God-breathed, referring to the divine inspiration (inbreathing) of Scripture (used only in 2 Tim 3:16).

I concede that emphysáō and theopneustos are different words, but it doesn't change the fact that Scripture is not the only thing that is God-breaded, no matter which way you split the hair______________Face it. You don't like John 20 because it's too Catholic, or you have to invent some wacko theory that everything went kaputz after the death of the last Apostle.

and the divinity of Mary

Ridiculous. It has always been the teaching of the Church that Mary is a human. I challenge you to find one official Catholic document in a 2000 year period that says Mary is divine., or that she is to be worshipped. You find it on "Bible-Christian" hate sites that rots the mind. That's why rabid anti-Catholics cannot be reasoned with. I pray that God heals you of your bigotry.

and that to be forgiven of sins you have to confess to some priest.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”
You must have missed that, and it has nothing to do with sola scriptura. You can't defend it so you lash out at me with the same ole psychotic blubbering. I am not talking about confession, or Mary, or the long list of ant-Catholic misrepresentations, I am talking about sola scriptura. I don't respond to mindless cluster-bombing tactics.

 

[elf3]

It is impossible for the Church to invent doctrines against the Bible. Elaborate with reasonable grounds kor your assertions are meaningless. And this has nothing to do with the false doctrine of sola scriptura.
You didn't prove me wrong, I didn't reply because your "refutation" was so lame.

John 20
English Standard Version (ESV)[SUP]19 [/SUP]On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews,[SUP][c][/SUP] Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” [SUP]20 [/SUP]When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” [SUP]22 [/SUP]And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. [SUP]23 [/SUP]If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

ἐνεφύσησεν, emphysáō (from 1722 /en, "in" and physaō, "breathe, blow") – properly, breathe (blow) in. 1720 (emphysáō) is only used in Jn 20:22 where Christ breathed into the apostles. By "breathing in Christ's inbreathing," 1720 (emphysáō) prefigures "the promise of the Father," fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost (Lk 24:49; Ac 1:4; Ac 2:1f).

theopneustos [TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]breathed[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐνεφύσησεν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]enephusēsen[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1720[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to breathe into or upon[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from en and phusaó (to blow)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
2315 theópneustos (from 2316 /theós, "God" and 4154 /pnéō, "breathe out") – properly, God-breathed, referring to the divine inspiration (inbreathing) of Scripture (used only in 2 Tim 3:16).

I concede that emphysáō and theopneustos are different words, but it doesn't change the fact that Scripture is not the only thing that is God-breaded, no matter which way you split the hair______________Face it. You don't like John 20 because it's too Catholic, or you have to invent some wacko theory that everything went kaputz after the death of the last Apostle.

Ridiculous. It has always been the teaching of the Church that Mary is a human. I challenge you to find one official Catholic document in a 2000 year period that says Mary is divine., or that she is to be worshipped. You find it on "Bible-Christian" hate sites that rots the mind. That's why rabid anti-Catholics cannot be reasoned with. I pray that God heals you of your bigotry.



[SUP]23 [/SUP]If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”
You must have missed that, and it has nothing to do with sola scriptura. You can't defend it so you lash out at me with the same ole psychotic blubbering. I am not talking about confession, or Mary, or the long list of ant-Catholic misrepresentations, I am talking about sola scriptura. I don't respond to mindless cluster-bombing tactics.

Kepha, sorry I don't have much time right now but I just want to mention one thing real quick. I have come across some "Catholic churches" in this area that do teach the divinity of mary so that's where that came from. I apologize for "generalizing" it among all "Catholic churches".

I'll respond to the other areas as soon as I can. I hope you have a good day as mine just got quite busy. But busy is good sometimes lol. God bless you on this day!

 

[john832]

But what are those pillars built upon? The Word of God. So where does the truth really lay? In the church or the Word of God? What I am saying is that the church isn't the final authority on truth. The Gospel of Christ is truth. "I am the way the TRUTH and the life" John 14:6. When the church starts putting itself ahead of the Bible as authority then..."Houston we have a problem"

This is what we see happening in churches today on a grand scale.

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

The foundations of the church are the Apostles and Prophets as recorded in both the O.T. and N.T. One must read the entire Bible to get the whole truth.

 

[kepha]

Kepha, sorry I don't have much time right now but I just want to mention one thing real quick. I have come across some "Catholic churches" in this area that do teach the divinity of mary so that's where that came from. I apologize for "generalizing" it among all "Catholic churches".

I'll respond to the other areas as soon as I can. I hope you have a good day as mine just got quite busy. But busy is good sometimes lol. God bless you on this day!

Either they are not Catholic, or you misunderstand what they are teaching, which is most often the case. Mariology is extremely difficult for some converts, Like Prof. Scott Hahn, former Presbyterian bible scholar, or Br. Ignatius, former Baptist minister, list of conversion stories. I have a list of reliable sites about Mary, and none of them say anything about Mary being divine. It is a heresy. But I'm busy too right now but I can post them on the insulting "Catholic heresies" (for the record) sticky thread, where I have been posting extensively.
God bless you too!

 

[dcontroversal]

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

The foundations of the church are the Apostles and Prophets as recorded in both the O.T. and N.T. One must read the entire Bible to get the whole truth.

The bible also states....

1st Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, WHICH IS JESUS CHRIST...

 

[newbirth]

The bible also states....

1st Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, WHICH IS JESUS CHRIST...

but a man can build hay and stubble upon the foundation...that means false doctrine

 

[dcontroversal]

but a man can build hay and stubble upon the foundation...that means false doctrine

I suggest you study 1st Corinthians 3 a little more in depth, as it is indicative of the works that a believer will have in his or her life and has nothing at all to do with doctrinal construction....KEY WORDS....WORKS SHALL BE JUDGED SO AS BY FIRE......

Faithful believer-->works of gold, silver and precious stones
Unfaithful believer-->works of wood, hay and stubble....