2 Peter 2 (Let's get into it)

[stonesoffire]

Have you all discussed the scriptures that speak of His keeping power being of His faith, and not ours?

Once the word is planted...salvation of our soul begins does it not? Our faith grows as His faith protects. Its how I read the those several scriptures.

 

[Gabriel2020]

Jesus talks about the lost sheep, and leaving the flock to go gather the lost sheep back into the fold. This is your spirit filled believer that goes astray, and they do sometime go astray. He said that he would lose none that are his,even if it means taking them before their time to keep them from losing their soul. The other believer is the one that turns back ,like a dog that turns and eats it's own vomit. that is because they had not been spirit filled,although cleansed of their sins, but no holy spirit. demons move back in because the house is empty, and bring seven more worse than he.

 

[Meggido]

when the bible uses the word sinners (the wicked) it speaks of the vile sins of the flesh that Paul said would disqualify one from the kingdom,,Such people as Daniel, Hannah, Job, Zecharias & Elisabeth, were not engaged in these types sins, thus they were reckoned righteous before God being blameless/perfect fearing God and keeping His commandments...However, being of human frailty, being made subject to vanity for the Creators purpose,we are by no means free from all ignorance and while having all knowledge, these are mistakes in judgement, moments of doubt, moments of anger, sins of ignorance, of the which the day of atonement in the Old Testament was for. Today they are dismissed in the Lords prayer. These are the sins that we are chastised/teaching for. God doesn't chastise us for willful rebellion and the vile sins of the flesh, but rather they reap what they sow and are called to the baptism of repentance, for He desires that all men should come to repentance and that none should perish...there are many righteous men and women who were not sinners and lived a life without he willful rebellious sin against ones own conscience (blasphemy of the Holy Ghost). This truth has been lost for centuries and seems very foreign to most...

You cannot make some things up, but here we have someone that is trying really hard to.

 

[willybob]

In other words it isn't really there. Its your invention with which to attack others

No one is attacking any one, less of course the shoo fits, and the wine bottles burst, then the HS does His work by convicting 24/7....my job is to expose the old wine (traditions of men) that have plagued the church for centuries, and replace it with the new wine of the NEW Covenant responsibility to live righteously, soberly, and godly in this present world as Titus 2:11-14 teaches us.Therefore having new wine skins that can hold the doctrine of Christ within..The flesh doesn't like Titus 2:11-14, and especially doesn't like 2 Cor. 7-11....

 

[Meggido]

This post is probably the most misinterpreted post i have ever read.

yeah he is like many others here that state it is not personal faith that saves you its the Faith of Jesus himself that saves you.

TO be honest, I have no idea where this false teaching started but I am running into it all over the place now.

 

[Meggido]

No one is attacking any one, less of course the shoo fits, and the wine bottles burst, then the HS does His work by convicting 24/7....my job is to expose the old wine (traditions of men) that have plagued the church for centuries, and replace it with the new wine of the NEW Covenant responsibility to live righteously, soberly, and godly in this present world as Titus 2:11-14 teaches us.Therefore having new wine skins that can hold the doctrine of Christ within..The flesh doesn't like Titus 2:11-14, and especially doesn't like 2 Cor. 7-11....

Please define for me what you are calling flesh. If your definition of flesh is the old man, your whole theology falls apart, because the Old man died with Christ.

Titus 2.11-15 is not new wine, it is grace.

 

[willybob]

Please define for me what you are calling flesh. If your definition of flesh is the old man, your whole theology falls apart, because the Old man died with Christ.

Titus 2.11-15 is not new wine, it is grace.

Paul uses the term flesh to describe the lustful desires that opposes God's commands...All men by nature have natural desires and inclinations of the flesh, Gen. 2...Its when these desires are fulfilled unlawfully do they become acts of sin...thats why Paul says MAKE NO PROVISION FOR THE FLESH...

The new wine is the doctrine of Christ, the rebellious cannot receive it because they still love their sin and wont give it up thus their wine skins become hardened and wont hold the new wine (law of the Spirit)

Grace is the empowerment of the Spirit working in the believer who submits. But if he is in rebellion and still desires the old wine he only receives grace in vain......the old wine is the stubborn traditions of men who love not the truth, but willfully rebel against the word (blasphemy of the Holy Ghost) and receive nothing from God.

 

[followjesus]

Gods word to mary came first and mary accepted and consented to the word, THEN the spirit came upon Her. notice this, the first time the angel spoke to her she didnt believe what He said, when she finally accepts it, the angel leaves. and later the spirit comes. this is how it works for us. its not the finished work of the cross that is our eyes and ears, it is what Jesus said in the 4 gospels ,none of it is the mosaic Law. its all Gods own revealed word. The things Jesus says about " doing the word" are the things needed to be accepted. there really is so much support for this, and none for filtering it through any " finished work of the cross"

is the first thing we need to accept that Jesus came the son of God, died for our sins, and was raised again the third day? absolutely 100 percent it is the FIRST thing. but even that came by the word of God all throughout the prophets berofrehand.

its not the whole story and Jesus dying for our sins, is the thing that can be made an excuse to remain in sin by some. Jesus words however the only thing that condemns in them, is to refuse to believe they are Gods revealed and eternal Word. it is the 4 gospels everything in them his life, teachings, miracles, His death, resurrection, ascention, His promises and warnings. all of those things are what christians need to believe and follow after. the finished work of the cross is this

the work of Gods Word through Jesus is this

thats the thing about following Jesus and the word of God. death and Life for us He was crucified, for us He has risen, to us and for us He has spoken

 

[willybob]

If they have once known the real way of Christ and have relapsed into this, their case is even worse. They are like the man in the parable whose last state was worse than his first (Matthew 12:45; Luke 11:26). If a man has never known the right way, he cannot be condemned for not following it.

But, if he has known it and then deliberately taken the other way, he sins against the light; and it were better for him that he had never known the truth, for his knowledge of the truth has become his condemnation. A man should never forget the responsibility which knowledge brings.

Peter ends with contempt. These evil men are like dogs who return to their vomit (Proverbs 26:11) or like a sow which has been scrubbed and then goes back to rolling in the mud. They have seen Christ but are so morally degraded by their own choice that they prefer to wallow in the depths of sin rather than to climb the heights of virtue. It is a dreadful warning that a man can make himself such that in the end the tentacles of sin are inextricably around him and virtue for him has lost its beauty.

very true sir, many ignore the warnings given by Jesus in the parable of the wondering spirit

 

[BillG]

Mailmandan, where are you off to on your holidays?

Yes he is.

 

[Katy-follower]

Mailmandan, where are you off to on your holidays?

Looks like....

Caladesi Island, Florida.

 

[J7]

Roman 3.21-5.21 make quite clear that this means 'faith in Jesus Christ'. 'The righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all who believe' (Rom 3.22).
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But that is not faith IN Jesus Christ.



I understand quite well what he means in Romans. It is quite simple really.

22 [FONT=&quot]Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Except it is faith OF Jesus Christ, is it not?[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[mailmandan]

If I could add a suggestion. I would suggest Christ saves us through His faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works, not a faith that comes after the imaginations of ones own heart.

1 Peter 1:9 says - receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. Christ does not have faith for us. We must choose to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ for salvation, yet faith is not simply conjured up through the flesh. Although we are commanded to believe in Him and will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving faith is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us in (John 6:44) and enables us/unless it has been granted to him by My Father (John 6:65) we would never come to Christ all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose to believe in Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.

The key is the faith in veiw belongs to God's own self it is the free gift of God. and not that of our own selves.

I believe that salvation is the free gift of God. Ephesians 2:8 - (Amplified Bible Classic Edition) - For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God.

.If we would say God does not have or need faith the whole second chapter of James is made without effect.

Why would God need faith? He is omniscient.

So we are saved by works through the faith of Christ that works in us to both will and do His good purpose.

The Bible nowhere says we are "saved by works." To the contrary, we find (Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).

The parable below gives us some insight into the matter.

Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith (Christ’s) wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. He was "shown to be righteous" based on his works and not accounted as righteous (Romans 4:2-3). *Also see post #975 here in regards to "justified by works." - http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/152309-falling-away-faith-its-possible-49.html

Was not Abraham our father justified by the work of God that worked in Abraham to both will and do His good pleasure.

James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

Therefore by that work Christ worked in Abraham making the faith of Christ perfect.

Faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete, just like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merit of his works many years after he believed God and his faith was accounted to him for righteousness. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

Christ is the author and perfecter of His faith that he freely give to us with no cost o our behalf.

Hebrews 12:2 says that Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith, not His faith.

 

[mailmandan]

So what you you do, mailmandan, when evangelizing to the lost homosexuals in the gay churches? How would you approach this?

If they tell you, "Yes, I believe in Jesus Christ". How would you help bring them into the correct way?

A practicing homosexual may believe "mental assent" in the existence and historical facts about Jesus, yet if they have not repented, they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ. The unrighteous (including homosexuals) will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9). Those who practice such things (Galatians 5:21). To "practice" such sins listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and Galatians 5:19-21 equates to a willful, habitual lifestyle. No repentance, just bring it on. That is not the fruit of a genuine believer. That's how I would bring them into the correct way and of course, I would share the gospel with them.

*1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

 

[mailmandan]

1 Corinthians 8v3
3 But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.

and to love God is to obey Him.....

It's critical that we don't confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture. 1 Corinthians 8:3 is DESCRIPTIVE of a believer.

 

[mailmandan]

So your "obedience" is then merely optional. A nicety, but not mandatory.

Your gospel reminds me of the man who built his house on the sand........

Obedience is not considered an optional extra for believers that we are not expected to do, yet obedience is also not mandatory in the sense that it is forced or legalistic for believers either.

 

[mailmandan]

Mailmandan, where are you off to on your holidays?

Florida.

 

[garee]

Actually we do live by the faith "of the Son of God". Paul uses the genitive case in Gal. 2:20

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The genitive case is the case that shows possession and is expressed in English by the possessive "of" or an apostrophe ('s).

It was Jesus' faith in the Father to raise Him from the dead which brings about our faith when we hear the message of Him.

It is in the gospel message. It is from faith to faith.

Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

Amen

The little word of carries a lot of weight most people from my experience do not differentiate between the things of God and those of men. It is there that Satan gets his foot in the door resulting in blasphemy ..

We are saved by the faith of Christ as the work of Christ that works in us. His faith is not without works .

We are not saved by the faith we have in Him coming from us .

Hebrews 6 calls that dead faith it produces dead works. It is accredited to all who crucify the Lord over and over every time they sin as if one sacrifice was not enough to pay the eternal wage. Better things accompany salvation with the other group like once saved always saved seeing he does the all the work of saving

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

We cannot have faith in Christ unless we are first given the faith of Christ.

Phi 3:9 And be found in him, "not having mine own righteousness", which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[mailmandan]

Amen

The little word of carries a lot of weight most people from my experience do not differentiate between the things of God and those of men. It is there that Satan gets his foot in the door resulting in blasphemy ..

We are saved by the faith of Christ as the work of Christ that works in us. His faith is not without works .

We are not saved by the faith we have in Him coming from us .

Hebrews 6 calls that dead faith it produces dead works. It is accredited to all who crucify the Lord over and over every time they sin as if one sacrifice was not enough to pay the eternal wage. Better things accompany salvation with the other group like once saved always saved seeing he does the all the work of saving

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

We cannot have faith in Christ unless we are first given the faith of Christ.

Phi 3:9 And be found in him, "not having mine own righteousness", which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Galatians 2:16 - nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith inChrist and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. (NASB)

Galatians 2:20 - I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Galatians 3:22 - But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Galatians 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 3:9 - and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.

Is this a KJV only thing?

 

[garee]

Why would God need faith? He is omniscient

With all due respect I see that a little differently

Without it (believing) he could not carry out the plan as a faithful Creator. God believed something would appear when he exercised his faith ((a work))by pronouncing the words; “let there be and there was.” Things of God did not just evolve. Omniscient had a plan.

1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

A good place to see his faith working in action would be Romans 3:3-4. the Holy Spirit of Christ answers it Himself (God forbid)

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the “faith of God” without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged Rom 3:3

To affect something is a work.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.And God said,(exercising His Faith ,belief) Let there be light: and there was light. Gen 1:1-3