613 Commandments in the Old Testament or the Torah

[WomanLovesTX]

Of the 613 laws, the majority cannot be practiced today because there is No Levite priests, No Temple, No Sanhedrin. My Messianic Jewish Rabbi said only about 125 are obtainable at this time in history, but Ezekiel and a few other scriptures indicate that they will be restored during the Millenium Kingdom on Earth.

As for as stoning an adultress or anyone else, there is no Sanhedrin for witnesses to go to. So stoning is not an option at this time.

Mostly common sense is all that is needed to know what applies and what doesn't.

For example, several of my Messianic Jewish friends wear the tzitzit.

Num 15:38 "Speak to the people of Isra'el, instructing them to make, through all their generations, tzitziyot on the corners of their garments, and to put with the tzitzit on each corner a blue thread.

The blue thread is representative of the commandments. We see in Revelation that the whore (church) does not use the color blue because they do not keep the commandments and have changed the times and laws.

 

[Ariel82]

SIGNS AND SYMBOLS


17.To circumcise the male offspring (Gen. 17:12; Lev. 12:3)

you see we don't do this any more because of these verses:

<forgot to post verses see if i can find them before the edit time expires>

18.To put fringes on the corners of clothing (Num. 15:38)

I really don't get this one and then I read it in context and it says its a reminder to obey God's laws every time someone sees the fringes. I guess the Israelites needed those reminders alot since if you read the OT they seem to forget pretty easily. I guess the whole string on the finger thing didn't work for them since they forgot what the string and fringes are suppose to remind them to do.

19.To bind God's Word on the head (Deut. 6:8)
20.To bind God's Word on the arm (Deut. 6:8)
21.To affix the mezuzah to the door posts and gates of your house (Deut. 6:9)

Deut 6
[SUP]6 [/SUP]“And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. [SUP]7 [/SUP]You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. [SUP]8 [/SUP]You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. [SUP]9 [/SUP]You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

I think this is figurative language that people took to literally. The whole "as" makes it a simile, yet I find it interesting how people turn the expression into a man-made law.

the message is to teach your children to obey God no matter what the circumstances are: sitting, standing, walking, working, before tucking them at night, when you wake them up in the morning, spend time teaching your children about God. Use every opportunity to teach your children God's law and remind yourself of them.

I don't think God intended people to literally bind God's word on their arm, or tape a list of God's commandments to their forehead.

I like having Bible verses scattered around my house but I don't think God intends for people to do it out of fear that if they don't they will somehow anger Him.

The most important thing is to have God's law written upon your heart and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.

why don't people pay attention to the use of figurative language clues?

words such as "as" and "like" kind of tip you off that it might not be meant to be taken completely literal.

 

[Ariel82]

blue is considered to be the color of purity, that is why so many paintings of Mary mother of Jesus has her wearing a blue veil.

not going to debate the "future" with folks. I'm focused on TODAY.

so 125 laws do you think folks should follow, WomanLoveTX?

 

[Ariel82]

circumcision:

interesting verses:

Deuteronomy 10:16 Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer.


Deuteronomy 30:6 And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

Jeremiah 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, And take away the foreskins of your hearts, You men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, Lest My fury come forth like fire, And burn so that no one can quench it, Because of the evil of your doings.”

Romans 2
[h=3][/h][SUP]25 [/SUP]For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? [SUP]27 [/SUP]And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? [SUP]28 [/SUP]For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; [SUP]29 [/SUP]but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

 

[jerusalem]

i think the point of the original post has been missed. the law was always about love' the point of every ritual of the law was intended to lead you to that truth even in old testament times. if you would reread scripture comparing what makes the prophets stand out from other believer's at the time this becomes even more clear. the general population distorted the law into a loveless even hate filled mess. God never gave it that way or intended it to become that way but instead was always using the few who genuinely understood this to try to redirect the people back to an understanding of this. even while Jesus was here until the present time we still face this same challenge. the message has always been about love.....always

 

[Ariel82]

see what I don't get is why no one shows how Israel brought upon themselves a curse because they broke God's covenant?

Or how the promise to Abraham was not to all his seeds but just ONE SEED: christ Jesus.

Deut 30 says this:

[h=3][/h][SUP]11 [/SUP]“For this commandment which I command you today is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off. [SUP]12 [/SUP]It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ [SUP]13 [/SUP]Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ [SUP]14 [/SUP]But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, [SUP]16 [/SUP]in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, [SUP]18 [/SUP]I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess. [SUP]19 [/SUP]I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; [SUP]20 [/SUP]that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”

Deut 31 says this

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the Lord said to Moses: “Behold, you will rest with your fathers; and this people will rise and play the harlot with the gods of the foreigners of the land, where they go to be among them, and they will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Then My anger shall be aroused against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and troubles shall befall them, so that they will say in that day, ‘Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?’ [SUP]18 [/SUP]And I will surely hide My face in that day because of all the evil which they have done, in that they have turned to other gods.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]“Now therefore, write down this song for yourselves, and teach it to the children of Israel; put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for Me against the children of Israel. [SUP]20 [/SUP]When I have brought them to the land flowing with milk and honey, of which I swore to their fathers, and they have eaten and filled themselves and grown fat, then they will turn to other gods and serve them; and they will provoke Me and break My covenant. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Then it shall be, when many evils and troubles have come upon them, that this song will testify against them as a witness; for it will not be forgotten in the mouths of their descendants, for I know the inclination of their behavior today, even before I have brought them to the land of which I swore to give them.”

showing you that GOD KNOWS that they will break His covenant.

so if someone breaks a covenant doesn't that mean the terms of the agreement are void?

I know God makes a NEW covenant with all of the SPIRITUAL descendents of Abraham who accept Jesus as Savior: Redeemer and Lord.

However, after Israel goes chasing after other gods and breaks the covenant with God, is God still held to the broken covenant?

Wouldn't it be His choice to renew or reestablish the terms of the covenant?

the song of Moses, that is taught in Deuteronomy 32 gives you a clue about the type of covenant God will establish with His people and their punishment.

[SUP]43 [/SUP]“Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people;[SUP][a][/SUP]
For He will avenge the blood of His servants,
And render vengeance to His adversaries;
He will provide atonement for His land and His people.”

It foreshadows the rest of the OT and what happens to the Israelite people.

yet, I haven't really ever heard it discussed.

I figured its because I can't go to church all that often, with kids and all.

Has anyone heard about the song of Moses? Any thoughts, sermons, insights?

i could start a new thread but since this one is mine I figured I'd ask in it, instead of jumping around with a bunch of new threads.

 

[crossnote]

I'm waiting for the remaining 507

never mind, I'm really flubbing the first 10

 

[Ariel82]

i think the point of the original post has been missed. the law was always about love' the point of every ritual of the law was intended to lead you to that truth even in old testament times. if you would reread scripture comparing what makes the prophets stand out from other believer's at the time this becomes even more clear. the general population distorted the law into a loveless even hate filled mess. God never gave it that way or intended it to become that way but instead was always using the few who genuinely understood this to try to redirect the people back to an understanding of this. even while Jesus was here until the present time we still face this same challenge. the message has always been about love.....always

I agree the central message is about love and that God gave us the commandments out of His overflowing love for us.

I think it would be helpful to see which laws are symbols to point us to a deeper meaning that God is trying to show us.

In addition, I would like to examine how people can twist God's original purpose of the laws to guide His people into a more peaceful state of living among one another; instead into a list of "do's and don't" that they can bind into a chain to drag people into the depths of despair and pits of futile striving to "earn" God's love.

if people want to wear tassles on their clothes, that's ok. It stops being ok, when they condemn others who do not wear those tassles because God's commandments were about REMEMBERING to LOVE HIM with our WHOLE HEART. its not about the outward show but the inward purity.

Its like Jesus calling the Pharisees whitewashed tombs. A lot of people focus on the outside and pretend it can hide the bitterness, hurt and hatred within.

There were poor people in the OT, who probably couldn't afford fancy tassles and I don't think God loved them any less for it.

Personally, I think those who need so many reminders are the ones who are easily tempted into sin and forgetful. The people who don't have the Holy Spirit guiding them because they look to other men to be prophets/priest/ ministers for them. People who don't read the Bible on their own, who don't spend time each day in prayer, who place their trust in what they can see, who they can hear more then in GOD whom they have not really developed a relationship with at all.

Too often I meet people who spend more time thinking about what they watched on TV, what they want to buy, etc than what God has revealed in the Bible. then I wonder, "Am i weird that I don't really care that I'm ignorant about what they are talking about and can't feel akward at parties because I'd rather be reading my Bible?"

I like getting together with people, but my interest goes more towards the Bible, how to raise kids, educational opportunities for kids, the beauty of God's creation and stuff like that.

I like seeing people have fun and laugh, but sometimes I always wonder if its not just skimming the surface?

I'd rather plunge in deep and ask about their dreams and how they are working towards doing something with their life for the glory of God.

lol, ok i'm done with my musings, thanks for listening to my rant.....

 

[Ariel82]

never mind, I'm really flubbing the first 10

what does flubbing mean?

Flubbing Synonyms, Flubbing Antonyms | Thesaurus.com

well its a good thing we have this:

Matthew 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

[h=3]Acts 10:42-44[/h]
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. [SUP]43 [/SUP]To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

[SUP]44 [/SUP]While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.

 

[RedTent]

yeah the whole stoning an adulterer to death might not be looked upon as law abiding in these modern times.....

We have two kinds of deaths, spiritual and physical. Two kinds of murderers, those who kill a body and those who lead a soul in spiritual death. Physical death is only going from one phase of living to another, spiritual death is forever. God looked on those who led to spiritual death as being a very serious threat to His beloved people.

 

[Ariel82]

We have two kinds of deaths, spiritual and physical. Two kinds of murderers, those who kill a body and those who lead a soul in spiritual death. Physical death is only going from one phase of living to another, spiritual death is forever. God looked on those who led to spiritual death as being a very serious threat to His beloved people.

so ..............are you advocating the stoning of adulterers?

can't tell since this is your response to the post that we shouldn't.

God tells people to take responsibility for their own actions and choices. To repent when they sin, not blame someone else for "tempting" them.

God's beloved people are given His Holy Spirit to lead and guide them. They have Jesus as their Advocate when they stumble and they have the Church to help them mature in Christ so they won't be swayed by the lies of the world.

God also says "Vengeance is Mine" and

• Hosea 6:6 For I desire mercy and not sacrifice, And the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
  
  
• Matthew 9:13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
  

 

[GreenNnice]

I'm waiting for the remaining 507

Only two commandments I need to know, the rest will fall into place as His Spirit leads. The Lord leads

1) Love God with all my heart, mind, body, soul, strength, song, everyTHING

2) love others as myself


Simple. You do that, and, YOU will, because the power of He in you will DO IT, LOL, it sure won't be you, He who gifted you with Himself will gift you with the great ways of Love. And, those are the TWO great ways , all the other commnandments fall off those TWO commands from Jesus

Simple, do that, you can quit reading the books , mind you, I did not say you could quit reading The Book

 

[Shiloah]

I think God Himself just gave the 10. Moses came up with the rest. I think the main 10 are the biggies.

 

[GreenNnice]

Only two commandments I need to know, the rest will fall into place as His Spirit leads. The Lord leads

1) Love God with all my heart, mind, body, soul, strength, song, everyTHING

2) love others as myself


Simple. You do that, and, YOU will, because the power of He in you will DO IT, LOL, it sure won't be you, He who gifted you with Himself will gift you with the great ways of Love. And, those are the TWO great ways , all the other commnandments fall off those TWO commands from Jesus

Simple, do that, you can quit reading the books , mind you, I did not say you could quit reading The Book

I think God Himself just gave the 10. Moses came up with the rest. I think the main 10 are the biggies.

See above, shi

 

[RedTent]

I think God Himself just gave the 10. Moses came up with the rest. I think the main 10 are the biggies.

Moses, the man came up with nothing, God spoke through him.

 

[RedTent]

so ..............are you advocating the stoning of adulterers?

can't tell since this is your response to the post that we shouldn't.

God tells people to take responsibility for their own actions and choices. To repent when they sin, not blame someone else for "tempting" them.

God's beloved people are given His Holy Spirit to lead and guide them. They have Jesus as their Advocate when they stumble and they have the Church to help them mature in Christ so they won't be swayed by the lies of the world.

God also says "Vengeance is Mine" and

• Hosea 6:6 For I desire mercy and not sacrifice, And the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
• Matthew 9:13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

I didn't say in my post "go stone someone".

I do think we need to keep the way God sees death in mind as we read His scripture. We can get so caught up in the idea of harming someone that we don't see what God is teaching us.

I think that we can get so impressed and thrilled with what Christ does for us, we forget all God teaches about His principles. God's way for us is to live in perfect harmony with love, as God created us and our world to live, is in the 613 laws that our present day church makes such fun of. Christ completed many of them, he fulfilled what the temple and priests and animal blood reflected, and we are to look at each and every law to see which Christ fulfilled and how. But Christ did not change one of them.

For instance, we do not have priests to take those of us in the family of God to for "stoning", but the law that sexual immorality is very serious has always been. Our world today can see the results in the breakup of the family as a building block in our society and the results, to say nothing of the spiritual death that is often the outcome.

 

[loveme1]

I believe the Messiah Yahshua shown us all an important message when he said:

John 8

.

7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her

None of them could take up a stone and the One that could of cast the first stone came to forgive men of sin.

Mercy and Love is more effective than stoning.

If we remember Matthew 18:21-25 which of us can with good conscience take up a stone?

The 10 Commandments are the tenor and Kept through Love, one will not even lust after another, let alone commit adultery.

 

[loveme1]

Deuteronomy 5

29O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

 

[crossnote]

Only two commandments I need to know, the rest will fall into place as His Spirit leads. The Lord leads

1) Love God with all my heart, mind, body, soul, strength, song, everyTHING

2) love others as myself


Simple. You do that, and, YOU will, because the power of He in you will DO IT, LOL, it sure won't be you, He who gifted you with Himself will gift you with the great ways of Love. And, those are the TWO great ways , all the other commnandments fall off those TWO commands from Jesus

Simple, do that, you can quit reading the books , mind you, I did not say you could quit reading The Book

Those two about love? I flub BIG TIME. God be merciful a sinner!

 

[Ariel82]

For instance, we do not have priests to take those of us in the family of God to for "stoning", but the law that sexual immorality is very serious has always been.

We have JESUS as our HIGH priest. Every member of the body of Christ can act as a priest.

yet Jesus tells us NOT to stone people, WHY?

"impressed and thrilled"? is that all you feel when thinking of what Christ did for you?

the 613 laws more often are a list of laws that people fall short of, a mirror to reveal to the world they are sinners in need of a savior.

"our present day church makes such fun of"? don't know what churches you've been attending but I haven't found one yet that does that.


do you clearly see "what God is teaching us"?

or did you just come into this thread to lambast me for questioning people's understanding of the OT and their demands to follow the LAW when most don't even bother reading all of them?