AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?
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P
Since this is not the first time you have lied, it is clear that you are a liar.
I asked 8 questions in post 252 and you didn't answer any of them. You don't like being held to biblical standards, do you? (by the way that is a rhetorical question)
I use only the KJV and you hate what it tells you.
Tell ya what, since you are so enamoured with the old testament as a guiding light, I'll leave you with this passage out of Ecclesiastes 1:2,3.............Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.............[SUP] [/SUP]What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
Work away. The preacher says it is in vain. Kind of hard to say anything about that, seeing as it isn't Paul, huh?
I asked 8 questions in post 252 and you didn't answer any of them. You don't like being held to biblical standards, do you? (by the way that is a rhetorical question)
I use only the KJV and you hate what it tells you.
Tell ya what, since you are so enamoured with the old testament as a guiding light, I'll leave you with this passage out of Ecclesiastes 1:2,3.............Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.............[SUP] [/SUP]What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
Work away. The preacher says it is in vain. Kind of hard to say anything about that, seeing as it isn't Paul, huh?
It is taught throughout the Word that deeds are our clothing, our righteousness.
It is throughout the Word. It is in the law, where there is much wisdom.
You will find it in Zechariah and in Revelation. Now, should you require the verses, I know them, but you, as a teacher of the Word, should already know them.
It is throughout the Word. It is in the law, where there is much wisdom.
You will find it in Zechariah and in Revelation. Now, should you require the verses, I know them, but you, as a teacher of the Word, should already know them.
K
phil, where's your sense of humor? anyways, thanks for the verses!! I love Ecclesiastics!! 
did you finish the Book? Here ya go..
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil..
did you finish the Book? Here ya go..Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil..
I hope people do know that simply believing that Jesus died for our sins does not save us. I am sure someone is reading this thinking: yes we are I have scripture.
But one scripture is not enough all scripture must be taken into account.
Yes the cross is essential to salvation. but keep in mind the cross is not the Finish line, its the starting line. the cross is symbolized by the altar of sacrifice in the sanctuary the very first step in salvation.
Paul teaches that forgiveness of sins comes from Jesus death. but we are saved by His life.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Get that? reconciled by his death, Saved by his life. Not His life on earth but his resurrection life.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
See that we are in the likeness of His resurrection in new life.
so old life sins but in Christ we die.
Now if sin is dead then will I still sin?
answer: read the whole of chapter 6.
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
what is sin?
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
the law points out sin how?
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
The law shows what is good and right so that we can clear see our way is bad and wrong/sin.
So if I am not a slave to sin if I am dead and Christ lives in me then I will not sin anymore. thus no more breaking the law which means I am keeping the law.
Jesus is our example.
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
notice Peter says that we should follow the example of Jesus. what is that?
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
oh who did no sin.
Paul says the same thing:
Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Have you laid aside every sin?
Have you strove against sin even to death?
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Jesus said that, do you serve sin or Jesus?
you can't serve both.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Do you obey sin or righteousness?
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Do you know Him?
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
To know Him is to keep his commandments.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
But one scripture is not enough all scripture must be taken into account.
Yes the cross is essential to salvation. but keep in mind the cross is not the Finish line, its the starting line. the cross is symbolized by the altar of sacrifice in the sanctuary the very first step in salvation.
Paul teaches that forgiveness of sins comes from Jesus death. but we are saved by His life.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Get that? reconciled by his death, Saved by his life. Not His life on earth but his resurrection life.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
See that we are in the likeness of His resurrection in new life.
so old life sins but in Christ we die.
Now if sin is dead then will I still sin?
answer: read the whole of chapter 6.
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
what is sin?
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
the law points out sin how?
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
The law shows what is good and right so that we can clear see our way is bad and wrong/sin.
So if I am not a slave to sin if I am dead and Christ lives in me then I will not sin anymore. thus no more breaking the law which means I am keeping the law.
Jesus is our example.
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
notice Peter says that we should follow the example of Jesus. what is that?
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
oh who did no sin.
Paul says the same thing:
Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Have you laid aside every sin?
Have you strove against sin even to death?
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Jesus said that, do you serve sin or Jesus?
you can't serve both.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Do you obey sin or righteousness?
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Do you know Him?
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
To know Him is to keep his commandments.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
K
Yes, it's Messiah in us that helps us keep God's commandments, not Messiah in us makes us disobey...that's nowhere in the Bible. More and more people reject the Word of God, taking only the parts they like and trampling what they don't like. Rejecting the Old Testament they've left themselves blind and deaf to the signs of the times. That spirit of defiance just grows larger as it is fed, a vow of arrogance.
E
Do you understand what the words "fading away" mean?
Do you understand what the words, "not under law" mean?
Do you understand what the words "Delivered from the law" Means
Do you understand what the words " as many as are under law are under a curse" means
Do you understand what the words, "Having abolished in the flesh the enmity, that is the law" mean
Here are just a few. Again, your argument is with God.
And stop saying scripture is obsolete, that is not the case. the law is obsolete in a christian life, But it still must do its job in the non believers life.
HUGE difference.
Thats what God said, Why do you argue with God?
lol. Ok thanks. You do not know me at all. And again you bear false witness. I NEVER SAID THE OT. Your twisting things around.
Does it make you feel self gratified to twist what people say and bear false witness against them? It must, you keep doing it!
E
who is trying to escape it?
Do you people think you are so high and mighty and righteous you can just go attacking other people?
The difference between you and I is I KNOW I AM A WRETCHED MAN, By you following your own precept of whatever part of the law you think is still valid, You evidently do not. Or you would not make such a claim.
This is all well and good.............problem is............when you try to "limit" a discussion to JUST the 10 Commandments, those who support THE WHOLE LAW will jump in, and those who do not support following the 613 Mosaic Laws will jump in.........so, any attempt to "limit" a discussion to the 10 Commandments is pretty hopeless in my opinion.
........just the way it is..........
........just the way it is..........
E
yeah like you do.
We follow your version of the law. the rest we do not have to follow.
We follow your belief, and everyone else is wrong.
You people need to start looking in the mirror. Maybe you will start seeing th elog in your eyes (although I doubt that is very sure to happen. The Pharisees could not see their logs either. They were just like you. Avid law followers, And lets see who we can attack and belittle who does not agree with us.
This is what I see as the problem.........people don't clearly understand what Paul was saying........"God forbid...."
Romans 9:3) What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 .) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 .) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 .) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 .) Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 .) Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 .) Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 .) Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 .) And the way of peace have they not known: 18 .) There is no fear of God before their eyes. 19 .) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 .) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 .) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 .) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 .) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 .) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 .) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 .) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 .) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 .) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 .) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 .) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 .) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
If people come to an understanding of what "the LAW OF FAITH" is/means.......much of the debate would pass........
(well, in my opinion)
Romans 9:3) What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 .) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 .) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 .) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 .) Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 .) Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 .) Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 .) Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 .) And the way of peace have they not known: 18 .) There is no fear of God before their eyes. 19 .) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 .) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 .) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 .) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 .) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 .) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 .) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 .) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 .) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 .) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 .) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 .) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 .) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
If people come to an understanding of what "the LAW OF FAITH" is/means.......much of the debate would pass........
(well, in my opinion)
And God says keeping His Commandments is PLEASING in His sight...
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
We must change ourselves with the help of the Spirit...
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Notice it doesn't say "he who does nothing and expects Christ to do it all for him", it says we are to repent and overcome.
How dare you misquote this scripture to call the Word of God weak and beggarly elements? Let's read it in context...
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
We are talking about the elements of the world.
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Not the true God but gods of your own design.
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
What elements had they been delievered from?
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
You are doing quite well with your carnal understanding...
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
this verse handily explains your animosity to the Law of God.
You real sure of that? The Lord says...
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Explain to us how fulfilled means done away with. Take two styrofoam cups, one in each hand. Fill one to the rim with water and then crush the other one and toss it away. Which one did you fulfill (fill full)?
First of all, no one is suggesting we try to keep the Law under our own power, that is not possible. But true saints of God DO KEEP the Commandments...
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Why would you try to convince anyone they should not keep the Commandments? If you don't keep the sixth, Commandment then you are a murderer. Either you commit murder or you don'tIf you don't keep the seventh Commandment, you are an adulterer. Either you commit adultery or you don't. There is no in between. Either you commit adultery or you don't.
Now, how did Christ fulfill the Law?
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
This verse is quoted but the context NEVER is...
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Notice how much fuller this is than just "Thou shalt not kill"?
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Christ says that not only should you keep the letter of the Law, but you need to keep the Law in your heart. You need to strive to put thoughts of ill will toward others out, put thoughts of adultery out.
You really need to heed the context of Mat 5:17...
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Or perhaps you can reason around this plain statement of Christ.
I think everyone would be much better served if you told the truth by pointing others to the Word of God...
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Obey what?
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Which Commandments?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
The Ten Commandments.
Christ kept them and He...
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Paul tells us to...
1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
Paul didn't tell this Gentile church in a Gentile city to keep xmas and Ishtar, he told them to keep the Passover and the Days of Unleavened Bread.
[qutoe]Do they help you to feel more holy? That would be something interesting to examine.[/quote]
I don't think "feeling' holy has much bearing on the subject. Buddhist monks feel holy. Are they? How do we determine what is holy?
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
We must change ourselves with the help of the Spirit...
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Notice it doesn't say "he who does nothing and expects Christ to do it all for him", it says we are to repent and overcome.
How dare you misquote this scripture to call the Word of God weak and beggarly elements? Let's read it in context...
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
We are talking about the elements of the world.
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Not the true God but gods of your own design.
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
What elements had they been delievered from?
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
You are doing quite well with your carnal understanding...
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
this verse handily explains your animosity to the Law of God.
You real sure of that? The Lord says...
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Explain to us how fulfilled means done away with. Take two styrofoam cups, one in each hand. Fill one to the rim with water and then crush the other one and toss it away. Which one did you fulfill (fill full)?
First of all, no one is suggesting we try to keep the Law under our own power, that is not possible. But true saints of God DO KEEP the Commandments...
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Why would you try to convince anyone they should not keep the Commandments? If you don't keep the sixth, Commandment then you are a murderer. Either you commit murder or you don'tIf you don't keep the seventh Commandment, you are an adulterer. Either you commit adultery or you don't. There is no in between. Either you commit adultery or you don't.
Now, how did Christ fulfill the Law?
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
This verse is quoted but the context NEVER is...
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Notice how much fuller this is than just "Thou shalt not kill"?
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Christ says that not only should you keep the letter of the Law, but you need to keep the Law in your heart. You need to strive to put thoughts of ill will toward others out, put thoughts of adultery out.
You really need to heed the context of Mat 5:17...
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Or perhaps you can reason around this plain statement of Christ.
I think everyone would be much better served if you told the truth by pointing others to the Word of God...
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Obey what?
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Which Commandments?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
The Ten Commandments.
Christ kept them and He...
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Paul tells us to...
1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
Paul didn't tell this Gentile church in a Gentile city to keep xmas and Ishtar, he told them to keep the Passover and the Days of Unleavened Bread.
[qutoe]Do they help you to feel more holy? That would be something interesting to examine.[/quote]
I don't think "feeling' holy has much bearing on the subject. Buddhist monks feel holy. Are they? How do we determine what is holy?
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
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