Am I wrong!?!

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Miri

The Thingy Member
Jul 22, 2012
9,226
2,217
113
UK age 51
#21
Thank you soooo much. But I want to hear from and understand people that believe people can loose their salvation... that is who this post is directed to... How do they know they will go to heaven when they die!?! Could they be right.... If they die today how do they know where they will go Heaven or HELL!?!

I find it "odd" no one who believes they can lose their salvation has not responded to such a simple question!!!!

Hi, I just wanted to say I look after my elderly aunt. She’s 83 and has loads of
health problems. I was brought up by her in foster care so she is like my mum.

Early dementia
COPD on oxygen 24/7
Heart failure
Chronic kidney disease.

All of the above makes her very confused if her oxygen levels drop,
if her blood chemistry becomes imbalances. If she gets UTIs etc.

Even as we speak she is in hospital yet again with breathing problems,
fluid on her chest. I’m pretty much having to call an ambulance every month
now.

In answer to your question, the truley saved cannot lost their salvation.
We do not save ourselves and we do not keep ourselves. That’s Gods job.

My aunt has a great testimony. But in short when my grandfather died
over 40 years ago. She was at the funeral and the person taking the burial
read the 23rd Psalm at the graveside. In that moment she became born again.
It was her road to Demarcus moment, she says it felt like God was talking to
her and she kept looking around the cemetary expecting to see God.
No one preached to her, no one explained the gospel. She hadn’t even been to
church apart from weddings! It really was like a Saul/Paul experience.

She came home a different person from the funeral I remember it well.
The next Sunday she dragged me to church even though I didn’t want to go.
She said she just had to go! She actually thought she would die at first as she
could not believe a person could experience something so wonderful and live!

Anyway fast forward 40 years and life had taken its toil, she had several
nervous breakdowns. Stopped going to church as she could not cope any more.
Then got elderly and ill, stopped reading the bible as too ill. Stopped watching
God TV as she doubted her faith, wondered if there was a God.

I have often worried about her and wondered where she was with a God had she given
up etc.

Then earlier this year during another bout of illness when she was really confused
and hallucinating. She woke me up in the middle of the night. I went downstairs and
she was really crying. She said she wanted say sorry and could I pray with her.

I was crying too as she said sorry to God and sorry for being a nuisance to everyone.
She made peace with God that night during a moment of clarity. Then next morning
she was back to confused again.

It wasn’t my aunt, this was all God. I believe he drew her to himself that night.
Since then despite the confusion she often tells me she prays. I know for certainty
she belongs to God. Why ? because God is holding onto her. HE always has done.

He does the same with us too if we are truely his.
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,105
113
#22
say hypothetically, someone repented,

as long as that someone repented once, are they always repented?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,051
2,974
113
#23
It seems off that we know about Paul from Paul.

I know about the Apostles from prophecy Zech. 3, and from our Savior, Jesus, Yeshua.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#24
Thats the real beauty? I mean, yeah sure. Lets praise the hypocrisy of Peter when he was acting hypocritically towards the knowledge of the truth (God's grace, the liberty found therein), and put up a facade for his fellow brethren.

Galatians 2:11-14 King James Version (KJV)
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

The apostle Paul and Peter knew the Gospel, Peter himself acknowledging the things Paul taught (though they be hard to understand). Yet, what we have here is Peter, no offense to him, "fearing them which were of the circumcision." So he knew He could eat with the Gentiles, yet he acted contrary to the truth of the Gospel.

Your dismissal of the message of grace Paul taught is a dismissal of what God has revealed through Paul. For what of scripture, is it from man or inspired by the Holy Spirit? Then why do you question the validity of God's word, of which 13 (possibly 14) books are written by the apostle Paul?

Once you start tossing out books from the Bible you've lost your objective truth. God's grace revealed through the apostle Paul and accepted even by Peter (though at times denied in fear) is a major aspect of the new covenant. To dismiss it leaves you ill-equipped to defend the Gospel.





Still, no Disciple or the Council led by Jesus' brother James, actually followed the message of what Paul taught. They continued in every way to follow what Christ taught. Even Jude, the other brother of Christ follows Jesus just like the Book of James follows Christ.

The only one not following Christ's message was Paul. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling is a long ways away from Paul's Grace message.

So let's do this:
YOU follow Paul, and I will choose to follow what God in person taught :)
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,105
113
#25
know about Paul from Paul.
it seems off, because it's circular logic

but we know that without the inspiration that comes from the spirit of Jesus, it would be impossible for Paul to write anything that might even quality as a chapter for the New Testament.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
113
29
#26
It seems off that we know about Paul from Paul.

I know about the Apostles from prophecy Zech. 3, and from our Savior, Jesus, Yeshua.
It seemed good to God, and not off. The Lord let him write 13 books (letters) of the New Testament. If you start questioning his validity, you'll soon be left with a much smaller Bible, and a lot of missing truth.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,051
2,974
113
#27
it seems off, because it's circular logic

but we know that without the inspiration that comes from the spirit of Jesus, it would be impossible for Paul to write anything that might even quality as a chapter for the New Testament.

You ae aware that the Bible was compiled by men, not written, but the collection of writings were put together by men.

As for the division of the Old and New Testaments, all the information except for the fulfillment written of in the Gospels is in what men have named the Old Testament.

I believe the Book is One, and the name should be one The Writings forming our Bible..Book.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#28
It seemed good to God, and not off. The Lord let him write 13 books (letters) of the New Testament. If you start questioning his validity, you'll soon be left with a much smaller Bible, and a lot of missing truth.

We really don't know that God inspired Paul. What we do know is the council in 335 A.D. thought it was inspired. But when you line Paul's message up to what Christ taught, hardly anything matches. I therefore choose God, I know by following what He said guarantees me salvation!!
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
113
29
#29
Still, no Disciple or the Council led by Jesus' brother James, actually followed the message of what Paul taught. They continued in every way to follow what Christ taught. Even Jude, the other brother of Christ follows Jesus just like the Book of James follows Christ.

The only one not following Christ's message was Paul. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling is a long ways away from Paul's Grace message.

So let's do this:
YOU follow Paul, and I will choose to follow what God in person taught :)
Who is following Paul? Are we not taught by the Spirit of truth, in all things?

I would suggest you look into what working out your salvation with fear and trembling actually means (it isn't coming from a place of condemnation). In fact, it has to do with a distrust in one's own abilities and reliance on, you guessed it, the Lord.

How does the apostle Paul contradict Christ?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,051
2,974
113
#30
It seemed good to God, and not off. The Lord let him write 13 books (letters) of the New Testament. If you start questioning his validity, you'll soon be left with a much smaller Bible, and a lot of missing truth.

My first thoughts on Pual were given me in 1969...…. I have determined, and I hav enot concluded the information I afforded in my post on it being off.
It is half a centry since I was first convinced of Jesus, Yeshua, and my understaning in this regard has not been negated by the Holy Spirit, nor has it been affirmed as yet by the Same.

I have yet to lose any of the remaining Scripture from the Apstles and Jesus.

Again, remember the compilation was by men, councils set up by men. God has allowed me to write hundreds of letters, but this does not mak whe I have writte Scripture therefor I do not tout myself, Jesus Only amen.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
113
29
#31
We really don't know that God inspired Paul. What we do know is the council in 335 A.D. thought it was inspired. But when you line Paul's message up to what Christ taught, hardly anything matches. I therefore choose God, I know by following what He said guarantees me salvation!!
Uhhh.... read Hebrews and then tell me it doesn't match. All of Hebrews.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
113
29
#32
My first thoughts on Pual were given me in 1969...…. I have determined, and I hav enot concluded the information I afforded in my post on it being off.
It is half a centry since I was first convinced of Jesus, Yeshua, and my understaning in this regard has not been negated by the Holy Spirit, nor has it been affirmed as yet by the Same.

I have yet to lose any of the remaining Scripture from the Apstles and Jesus.

Again, remember the compilation was by men, councils set up by men. God has allowed me to write hundreds of letters, but this does not mak whe I have writte Scripture therefor I do not tout myself, Jesus Only amen.
Do you reject the letters in your Bible written by the apostle Paul?
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,105
113
#33
is Paul trustworthy or not

now I don't know what to believe anymore

Paul wrote the book of Romans, and I was lead on the Roman road for salvation.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#34
Who is following Paul? Are we not taught by the Spirit of truth, in all things?

I would suggest you look into what working out your salvation with fear and trembling actually means (it isn't coming from a place of condemnation). In fact, it has to do with a distrust in one's own abilities and reliance on, you guessed it, the Lord.

How does the apostle Paul contradict Christ?


No, with fear and trembling is not assuming salvation is guaranteed. Christ did not teach Grace as we see Paul in the Book of Romans teach it. And this message of Grace is what everyone is hooping and hollaring about concerning this OSAS idea. Now, I am not debating all of the various points to OSAS, I am debating the interpretation between what Christ taught vs what Paul taught.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
113
29
#35
is Paul trustworthy or not

now I don't know what to believe anymore

Paul wrote the book of Romans, and I was lead on the Roman road for salvation.
Yes, he is an apostle of Christ, sent and commissioned by God. His letters are inspired by the Holy Spirit (as scripture) for our benefit. To dismiss the letters of Paul would be to toss out a majority of the New Testament, leaving you ignorant of the truth and in shackles to what God has freed us from. We are no longer condemned, we stand justified in Christ Jesus, and this is by grace and not works.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#36
Uhhh.... read Hebrews and then tell me it doesn't match. All of Hebrews.


We don't actually know that is Paul. But any Pharisee could recite the history of the Bible like we find in Hebrew's.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#37
Yes, he is an apostle of Christ, sent and commissioned by God. His letters are inspired by the Holy Spirit (as scripture) for our benefit. To dismiss the letters of Paul would be to toss out a majority of the New Testament, leaving you ignorant of the truth and in shackles to what God has freed us from. We are no longer condemned, we stand justified in Christ Jesus, and this is by grace and not works.


You want him to be trustworthy, because your entire salvation is not based upon Christ, but rather Paul!!
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,408
584
113
29
#38
No, with fear and trembling is not assuming salvation is guaranteed. Christ did not teach Grace as we see Paul in the Book of Romans teach it. And this message of Grace is what everyone is hooping and hollaring about concerning this OSAS idea. Now, I am not debating all of the various points to OSAS, I am debating the interpretation between what Christ taught vs what Paul taught.
We have assurance. Fear and trembling is used in other verses in the Bible and it denotes a type of distrust in one's own abilities and in context, it here reveals our trust in the Lord to finish the good work He has started. This says to work out your salvation, not to work for it.

Eternal life is in Christ Jesus. To deny it, is to deny the record of the Father that He has spoken.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,051
2,974
113
#40
Do you reject the letters in your Bible written by the apostle Paul?
The tone of your question is inquisitoriaql at best.

Would you have me reject the teaching directly from God in favor of Paul only?

I read Paul's letters almost daily, but when I want solid answeres I rely only on Jesus because Paul can confuse a glass of water…...tell me how you understand all of his letters because they contradict each other over and over, thus I go to the Rock.