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marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
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#61
MERCY, not Grace is why God died for us!!

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have Mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matthew 9:27
And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have Mercy on us.

Matthew 20:31
And the multitude rebuked them, because they should hold their peace: but they cried the more, saying, Have Mercy on us, O Lord, thou Son of David.

Luke 1:50
And his Mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.

Luke 1:72
To perform the promised Mercy to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;




This is complete opposite of what Paul preaches. But you listen to Paul, I am listening to God and His MERCY He has bestowed upon me!!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,155
3,087
113
#62
It has always struck me as weird how most people refer to grace when they mean mercy.

I have been grace with the Holy Spirit, and used for a healing here and there, and a miracle or a few plus teh gift of knowledge on various occasions.

Grace for me has always been the unmerited gifts fromthe father and being a vessel for serving Him, and that has always been thrilling. The HOly Spirit comes over a person and that person obeys what He says, and voila miracles, amen.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#63
Jesus never once said I am having Grace upon you by dying for you.
No, He said time and time and time and time again..I will have MERCY on you!!
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#64
MERCY, not Grace is why God died for us!!

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have Mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matthew 9:27
And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have Mercy on us.

Matthew 20:31
And the multitude rebuked them, because they should hold their peace: but they cried the more, saying, Have Mercy on us, O Lord, thou Son of David.

Luke 1:50
And his Mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.

Luke 1:72
To perform the promised Mercy to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;




This is complete opposite of what Paul preaches. But you listen to Paul, I am listening to God and His MERCY He has bestowed upon me!!


Jesus never once said I am having Grace upon you by dying for you.
No, He said time and time and time and time again..I will have MERCY on you!!
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,509
656
113
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#65
You are raining on wet soil...it has already been prepared.
Ignorance can leave a person's armor open and vulnerable to attack (from fiery darts). What peace and rest, what assurance, can be had without a proper understanding on God's grace and the sufficiency of Christ's blood? This isn't about saving his soul but peace of mind.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#66
Ignorance can leave a person's armor open and vulnerable to attack (from fiery darts). What peace and rest, what assurance, can be had without a proper understanding on God's grace and the sufficiency of Christ's blood? This isn't about saving his soul but peace of mind.


Yes, it is most extremely ignorant to deny God' Mercy when that is what He claimed vs Paul's false message of Grace! It is false by how people have interpreted it because none of the interpretations line up with specifically to what Jesus said.

And once again, who died for you (Jesus or Paul)?
Who is God (Jesus or Paul)?
Who has more authority (Jesus or Paul)?
Who should we listen to and obey (Jesus' message or Paul's)?
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,509
656
113
29
#67
Jesus never once said I am having Grace upon you by dying for you.
No, He said time and time and time and time again..I will have MERCY on you!!
You deserved death, and Christ paid it. That is mercy. You haven't earned eternal life, yet He gives it to you. That is grace. Our righteousness is one of faith, our salvation by grace through faith.

Why do you oppose grace? It is not a license to sin as you seem to perceive it.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#68
You deserved death, and Christ paid it. That is mercy. You haven't earned eternal life, yet He gives it to you. That is grace. Our righteousness is one of faith, our salvation by grace through faith.

Why do you oppose grace? It is not a license to sin as you seem to perceive it.


Spin it how it makes you feel all warm and cozy. Doesn't matter because Jesus said it is God's Mercy ultimately that saves us and guarantees us a spot in Paradise!!
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,509
656
113
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#69
Yes, it is most extremely ignorant to deny God' Mercy when that is what He claimed vs Paul's false message of Grace! It is false by how people have interpreted it because none of the interpretations line up with specifically to what Jesus said.

And once again, who died for you (Jesus or Paul)?
Who is God (Jesus or Paul)?
Who has more authority (Jesus or Paul)?
Who should we listen to and obey (Jesus' message or Paul's)?
You are making it seem as if Jesus and Paul are on opposing sides. I reject your false dichotomy, your false dilemma. They are on the same side, and the truth they speak is from God. The contradictions you see is you not rightly dividing God's word, understanding the covenant of which you are now under.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#70
You deserved death, and Christ paid it. That is mercy. You haven't earned eternal life, yet He gives it to you. That is grace. Our righteousness is one of faith, our salvation by grace through faith.

Why do you oppose grace? It is not a license to sin as you seem to perceive it.



I am not opposing anything, I am claiming there is a difference between what God said compared to what Paul said. And ultimately, it is what God said that gets me to heaven, not what Paul thinks!!
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#71
You are making it seem as if Jesus and Paul are on opposing sides. I reject your false dichotomy, your false dilemma. They are on the same side, and the truth they speak is from God. The contradictions you see is you not rightly dividing God's word, understanding the covenant of which you are now under.


I am not opposing anything, I am claiming there is a difference between what God said compared to what Paul said. And ultimately, it is what God said that gets me to heaven, not what Paul thinks!!
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#72
We have the complete Gospel plus the original church example in the Book of Acts. Those 5 Books are enough to secure your ticket to heaven. Paul is supposed to be icing on the cake until his definitions become different than what God (Christ) commanded us. And that is to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling and go and sin no more!! And Christ claimed He had ((Mercy, not Grace)) upon us!!

If you want to go to heaven, you better listen to Jesus, not what Paul thinks!!
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,509
656
113
29
#73
I am not opposing anything, I am claiming there is a difference between what God said compared to what Paul said. And ultimately, it is what God said that gets me to heaven, not what Paul thinks!!
God spoke through Paul. Had you lived in the times of the Bible, would've you rejected a prophet of God because they weren't Jesus, or God, Himself? No, you'd pay attention because the Lord was speaking through them. Likewise, God speaks through Paul's writings in the NT. Scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Lord is speaking to you as you read the writings of Paul.

To reject the apostle Paul's teachings on grace is equivalent to rejecting the voice of God. If we do not have objective truth found in scripture (all of it), we are yet lost. When you question the validity of scripture, dismiss it, denounce whole books, then you no longer believe in the sufficiency of scripture as God has intended to teach you, in and through it by the Spirit.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#74
God spoke through Paul. Had you lived in the times of the Bible, would've you rejected a prophet of God because they weren't Jesus, or God, Himself? No, you'd pay attention because the Lord was speaking through them. Likewise, God speaks through Paul's writings in the NT. Scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Lord is speaking to you as you read the writings of Paul.

To reject the apostle Paul's teachings on grace is equivalent to rejecting the voice of God. If we do not have objective truth found in scripture (all of it), we are yet lost. When you question the validity of scripture, dismiss it, denounce whole books, then you no longer believe in the sufficiency of scripture as God has intended to teach you in through it and by the Spirit.



Nowhere, nowhere, nowhere, nowhere, nowhere is there an example of the Disciples, the Council led by James, or the other brother Jude following Paul. They followed Jesus specifically. Why would I follow Paul when ((no one)) else did that mattered?
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,509
656
113
29
#75
Nowhere, nowhere, nowhere, nowhere, nowhere is there an example of the Disciples, the Council led by James, or the other brother Jude following Paul. They followed Jesus specifically. Why would I follow Paul when ((no one)) else did that mattered?
Who is telling you to follow Paul? What is this following that you speak of? Follow God! God speaks through Paul. SO LISTEN. I don't know why you are trying to pit one of God's apostles against Christ and His Church, when God put that person, Paul, in that role for us.

Why do you reject the apostleship and role that the Lord has given to the apostle Paul, in light of clear scripture? That is the real issue.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,155
3,087
113
#76
Ignorance can leave a person's armor open and vulnerable to attack (from fiery darts). What peace and rest, what assurance, can be had without a proper understanding on God's grace and the sufficiency of Christ's blood? This isn't about saving his soul but peace of mind.
Again, raining on wet soil.
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#77
Who is telling you to follow Paul? What is this following that you speak of? Follow God! God speaks through Paul. SO LISTEN. I don't know why you are trying to pit one of God's apostles against Christ and His Church, when God put that person, Paul, in that role for us.

Why do you reject the apostleship and role that the Lord has given to the apostle Paul, in light of clear scripture? That is the real issue.



The OSAS is based off of Paul' Grace message. But that message is not what Jesus taught. He taught we are saved by Mercy!! So no, I only care what God commanded, not what Paul assumed.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,509
656
113
29
#79
The OSAS is based off of Paul' Grace message. But that message is not what Jesus taught. He taught we are saved by Mercy!! So no, I only care what God commanded, not what Paul assumed.
Again, read Hebrews. When you understand the sacrificial system, the types and shadows of Christ, you can not reach any other conclusion than a message of grace and, yes, eternal security found through the Lamb's blood (shed for the remission of our sins).
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#80
Again, read Hebrews. When you understand the sacrificial system, the types and shadows of Christ, you can not reach any other conclusion than a message of grace and, yes, eternal security found through the Lamb's blood (shed for the remission of our sins).



Again, read what JESUS said, His words are the only thing that matters!!