Amillennialism
- Thread starter zone
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A
wow that's harsh Red. you should have pmed EG if that is how you feel instead of spewing forth that on public forum, but since you did I have to tell you that though I don't really like Strangelove, I actually agree with some of his ideas.
However if I ever get to the point that I view anyone as a pig and worthless and not see past their current state to the beloved person that God wants them to be, I would walk away and spend some time in prayer and repentance.
such behavior just reminds me of this incident:
Matthew 11:19
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is justified by her children.”
anyways I hope you calm down Red. this is just an online forum. there is a whole world out there that never even reads our words and if you ever witness to non-Christians you will find examples of much worst behavior and words. Even if the world treats us like dirt, Does Jesus tell us to respond in kind?
However if I ever get to the point that I view anyone as a pig and worthless and not see past their current state to the beloved person that God wants them to be, I would walk away and spend some time in prayer and repentance.
such behavior just reminds me of this incident:
Matthew 11:19
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is justified by her children.”
anyways I hope you calm down Red. this is just an online forum. there is a whole world out there that never even reads our words and if you ever witness to non-Christians you will find examples of much worst behavior and words. Even if the world treats us like dirt, Does Jesus tell us to respond in kind?
Last edited:
A
i sit back wondering who cares what anyone believes if it is not what GOD tells us?
i thought the discussion is what GOD wants from us His children and the world?
I guess I'm sadly wrong...
I guess its too late for this:
Proverbs 17:14
The beginning of strife is like releasing water; Therefore stop contention before a quarrel starts.
2 Corinthians 12:19-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Again, do you think[a] that we excuse ourselves to you? We speak before God in Christ. But we do all things, beloved, for your edification. 20 For I fear lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I wish, and that I shall be found by you such as you do not wish; lest there be contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, backbitings, whisperings, conceits, tumults; 21 lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and I shall mourn for many who have sinned before and have not repented of the uncleanness, fornication, and lewdness which they have practiced.
why I have a problem with pre-trib millennialist doctrine? it sets the stage for the Anti Christ to rule from Jeruselum and if people are not prepared they will take the sign of the beast and bow to this fake Christ and kill anyone who tells them it is not really Jesus returned for he will show signs and wonders and appear to fulfill these prophecies that people claim are still active. He will unite the world religions and gather the people to war against any who have the true witness of Christ.
but hey no one really cares about that, lets talk about what we BELIEVE and how misUNDERSTOOD our beliefs are instead. no need to discuss the Bible or anything happening in the world right now. we are much to busy taking bits out of each other, don't spoil our fun....(the last was soaked in sarcasm for those who might not have caught it)
i thought the discussion is what GOD wants from us His children and the world?
I guess I'm sadly wrong...
I guess its too late for this:
Proverbs 17:14
The beginning of strife is like releasing water; Therefore stop contention before a quarrel starts.
2 Corinthians 12:19-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Again, do you think[a] that we excuse ourselves to you? We speak before God in Christ. But we do all things, beloved, for your edification. 20 For I fear lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I wish, and that I shall be found by you such as you do not wish; lest there be contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, backbitings, whisperings, conceits, tumults; 21 lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and I shall mourn for many who have sinned before and have not repented of the uncleanness, fornication, and lewdness which they have practiced.
why I have a problem with pre-trib millennialist doctrine? it sets the stage for the Anti Christ to rule from Jeruselum and if people are not prepared they will take the sign of the beast and bow to this fake Christ and kill anyone who tells them it is not really Jesus returned for he will show signs and wonders and appear to fulfill these prophecies that people claim are still active. He will unite the world religions and gather the people to war against any who have the true witness of Christ.
but hey no one really cares about that, lets talk about what we BELIEVE and how misUNDERSTOOD our beliefs are instead. no need to discuss the Bible or anything happening in the world right now. we are much to busy taking bits out of each other, don't spoil our fun....(the last was soaked in sarcasm for those who might not have caught it)
YOU'VE shown what you believe...and I've refuted it.
Your done.
Ok.
I'll keep going. If you want back into the debate. My last posts are awaiting your consideration. The debate itself is giving you what you are asking me to prove. So ANSWER THEM.
And by the way...you keep producing sentences like this:
...which dont even make sense.
I'm afraid to prove that I know I'm worng about your belief??
Like.....huh?
Your done.
Ok.
I'll keep going. If you want back into the debate. My last posts are awaiting your consideration. The debate itself is giving you what you are asking me to prove. So ANSWER THEM.
And by the way...you keep producing sentences like this:
...which dont even make sense.
I'm afraid to prove that I know I'm worng about your belief??
Like.....huh?
E
Jesus spoke of the prophesy of daniel, the abomination of desolation. he also stated that he owuld have to intervene during this great tribulation because if he didn't, in his own words.
21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
So can you tell me when sometime from the time of Christ's escention until today when it was possible that a war of great tribulation was so severe that there was a possability that all life on earth would be destroyed, and Christ had to intervine?
21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
So can you tell me when sometime from the time of Christ's escention until today when it was possible that a war of great tribulation was so severe that there was a possability that all life on earth would be destroyed, and Christ had to intervine?
A
EG youve slipped badly. Ive asked questions and youve answered in hostility. I asked polite questions.
I never told you what you believe. Nor am i "with" zone and doc. So you should stop the whining and
trying to make it look like your being picked on. I watched it all though and you came into this thread
noone made you come into a Amil debate, right? The only question I asked and i asked twice and got
1 silly answer from you. The real answer is that the promise was to a remnant, not the natural seed,
but you never answered it correctly. Im supposing you think out of nowhere God will save all the unregenerate,
just because. EG in my experience you only attack, at least with me you dont dialogue thats why i usually
drop it. Onlookers can learn some from the posts tho, that is the good part of the socalled discussions.
Red, Ive not seen you model the grace and love you preach for sometime. Your a curser, and name caller
and your trying to be a controller and divider. I understand you have your understanding of the word and
dont blame you for taking it seriously, but i think your taking yourself too seriously at this time. You tell people
to do private mail with personal talk, but you yourself dont do that. You preach grace and say pray and let God
handle it, but you dont do that....on and on.
I never told you what you believe. Nor am i "with" zone and doc. So you should stop the whining and
trying to make it look like your being picked on. I watched it all though and you came into this thread
noone made you come into a Amil debate, right? The only question I asked and i asked twice and got
1 silly answer from you. The real answer is that the promise was to a remnant, not the natural seed,
but you never answered it correctly. Im supposing you think out of nowhere God will save all the unregenerate,
just because. EG in my experience you only attack, at least with me you dont dialogue thats why i usually
drop it. Onlookers can learn some from the posts tho, that is the good part of the socalled discussions.
Red, Ive not seen you model the grace and love you preach for sometime. Your a curser, and name caller
and your trying to be a controller and divider. I understand you have your understanding of the word and
dont blame you for taking it seriously, but i think your taking yourself too seriously at this time. You tell people
to do private mail with personal talk, but you yourself dont do that. You preach grace and say pray and let God
handle it, but you dont do that....on and on.
A
are we moving the goal post now?
1. I asked for a OT prophecy that would support the notion that God has NOT fulfilled all His promises to the nation Israel or that the promises are NOT made to the nation but to the Seed of Abraham and His disciples which we can call Spiritual Israel or heirs to the Promise. (that is from Matthew 24 and NOT in the OT and concern's Jesus disciples so..... how does that support the millenium reign?)
2. I've already posted you things about Daniel and how it has been fulfilled you chose not to believe that and truthfully that is between you and God. when I get a chance I'll try and repost it for you so you can review again and pull out things you do not agree with.....hopefully you will have Biblical or historical sources to support your position.
3. you have talked about more then one convenant you and zone were discussing, could you list them?
I have just given you some verses about how Canaan is a foreshadowing of the promised land/ Heaven as revealed in Revelations
I also propose that the Mosaic covenant is explained and upheld by Jesus in His sermon on the mount showing that people are not to be like the Pharisees only observing the LETTER of the law but also the SPIRIT of the law that God meant for the rebellious people to follow and how Jesus has come to start a new AGE and end the old AGE as Matthew 24 clearly foretells also the new covenant is also outlined in the NT though it is often foretold in the OT as well.
1. I asked for a OT prophecy that would support the notion that God has NOT fulfilled all His promises to the nation Israel or that the promises are NOT made to the nation but to the Seed of Abraham and His disciples which we can call Spiritual Israel or heirs to the Promise. (that is from Matthew 24 and NOT in the OT and concern's Jesus disciples so..... how does that support the millenium reign?)
2. I've already posted you things about Daniel and how it has been fulfilled you chose not to believe that and truthfully that is between you and God. when I get a chance I'll try and repost it for you so you can review again and pull out things you do not agree with.....hopefully you will have Biblical or historical sources to support your position.
3. you have talked about more then one convenant you and zone were discussing, could you list them?
I have just given you some verses about how Canaan is a foreshadowing of the promised land/ Heaven as revealed in Revelations
I also propose that the Mosaic covenant is explained and upheld by Jesus in His sermon on the mount showing that people are not to be like the Pharisees only observing the LETTER of the law but also the SPIRIT of the law that God meant for the rebellious people to follow and how Jesus has come to start a new AGE and end the old AGE as Matthew 24 clearly foretells also the new covenant is also outlined in the NT though it is often foretold in the OT as well.
E
What? Since when does NO FLESH = only the jews??
Dude your messed up. The prophesies concerning the land covenant do not refer to the jews. But ALL FLESH does?? Make up your mind. So it does refer to them when it fits your belief, and it doesn't when it does not fit your belief? Do you take anything God says seriously and literally?
Yeah, ltet them which be in Judea flee to the mountains. When this great tribulations starts. WHEN YOU SEE THE ABOMINATION. Which HAS NOT HAPPENED YET.
lol.. Wow. You should stop talking, you don't make any sense period. Your answer are so far out there they are not even believable
Dude your messed up. The prophesies concerning the land covenant do not refer to the jews. But ALL FLESH does?? Make up your mind. So it does refer to them when it fits your belief, and it doesn't when it does not fit your belief? Do you take anything God says seriously and literally?
Yeah, ltet them which be in Judea flee to the mountains. When this great tribulations starts. WHEN YOU SEE THE ABOMINATION. Which HAS NOT HAPPENED YET.
lol.. Wow. You should stop talking, you don't make any sense period. Your answer are so far out there they are not even believable
A
one of the things people who support the double dispensationist position (i'm not referring to exclusively you EG when I say this) is that they say that Jesus did not fulfill the feast of tabernacle.
After some research and prayer I have to disagree with them.
I have alluded in the above post that Jesus is the substance of the shadow that the feast of tabernacle is suppose to remind the Jewish people of. they are suppose to remember how God gave them manna in the deserts, Jesus says HE is the true manna from Heaven and if you eat of His bread (which is His Words) you will not be hungry again. Also the feast of tabernacle is to remember when Moses struck a rock and water came flowing from it which alludes to when Jesus was struck on the cross and after His ascension sends forth LIVING Water which is His Holy Spirit.
truthfully this topic has not been a key cornerstone of my beliefs since I believe on taking one day at a time and not trying to foretell the future beyond what God wants me to do in the present in preparation for it.
However I'm reminded of these verses:
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
therefore I would vocalize and discuss my findings and discover why we are not in agreement over certain key intepertations of scripture and prophecy. if it can be done in a respectful and rational manner.
Again I state my premises that
1. all OT prophecies have been either
a. fulfilled through Jesus or
b. stated again in the book of Revelations
2. Amillenianism is logical and Bibilically based upon the symbolism of numbers in the Jewish traditions concerning prophecy and Jesus and His disciples own words about the Kingdom of God is at hand.
3. a. that between when the law was given to Moses until Jesus sent His Holy Spirit during Pentecost is considered an Age
b. and we now live in a NEW Age which is called TODAY
c. and a new covenant which replaces the one made with Moses who was given the LAW
d. and fulfills the Promise given to both Abraham and Eve about the Seed who would crush serpents and young lions under His feet
e. and Heaven is the promise land and the promised Rest, not physical Canaan though Canaan is used as a symbol to foreshadow on Earth what is true in Heaven. much like sacrificing Isaac foreshadow's Jesus' death on the cross.
anyways this is a chart of the two positions I have heard explained so far....
After some research and prayer I have to disagree with them.
I have alluded in the above post that Jesus is the substance of the shadow that the feast of tabernacle is suppose to remind the Jewish people of. they are suppose to remember how God gave them manna in the deserts, Jesus says HE is the true manna from Heaven and if you eat of His bread (which is His Words) you will not be hungry again. Also the feast of tabernacle is to remember when Moses struck a rock and water came flowing from it which alludes to when Jesus was struck on the cross and after His ascension sends forth LIVING Water which is His Holy Spirit.
truthfully this topic has not been a key cornerstone of my beliefs since I believe on taking one day at a time and not trying to foretell the future beyond what God wants me to do in the present in preparation for it.
However I'm reminded of these verses:
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
therefore I would vocalize and discuss my findings and discover why we are not in agreement over certain key intepertations of scripture and prophecy. if it can be done in a respectful and rational manner.
Again I state my premises that
1. all OT prophecies have been either
a. fulfilled through Jesus or
b. stated again in the book of Revelations
2. Amillenianism is logical and Bibilically based upon the symbolism of numbers in the Jewish traditions concerning prophecy and Jesus and His disciples own words about the Kingdom of God is at hand.
3. a. that between when the law was given to Moses until Jesus sent His Holy Spirit during Pentecost is considered an Age
b. and we now live in a NEW Age which is called TODAY
c. and a new covenant which replaces the one made with Moses who was given the LAW
d. and fulfills the Promise given to both Abraham and Eve about the Seed who would crush serpents and young lions under His feet
e. and Heaven is the promise land and the promised Rest, not physical Canaan though Canaan is used as a symbol to foreshadow on Earth what is true in Heaven. much like sacrificing Isaac foreshadow's Jesus' death on the cross.
anyways this is a chart of the two positions I have heard explained so far....
Last edited:
E
What Goal post. You asked a question. I returned it by asking you HOW OR WHEN IT WAS FULFILLED. and this is your answer? You have been hanging around strangelove to long!!
I gave you an answer. Jesus said it will be when a period of time no flesh will survive. So unless you believe like Strangleove does and it only means jews (even though flesh means ALL living creatures) this HAS NOT HAPPENED YET. So there is your proof!
Well we have already been through this. But feel free. And I will try to show you. SInce your a late commer to the convo.
No there is ONE Covenant with many aspects. Some concern all nations. Some concern all of Abrahams relatives. Some concern only a particular group of Abrahams relatives (Issac and jacob (Israel)
And I can not agree. as long as the land of canaan is still here. the covenant still stands. as does the promise of Lev 26. Have you read this? no one else seems to even want to comment on it.
Mosaic covenant concerning our debt to Christ. this is what Jesus was talking about. I am talking about the abrahamic covenant. which is a binding, eternal covenant made between God, Abraham, Issac and Jacob. And affirmed in Exek, Jeremiah, Daniel among other places. Which has NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION.
I gave you an answer. Jesus said it will be when a period of time no flesh will survive. So unless you believe like Strangleove does and it only means jews (even though flesh means ALL living creatures) this HAS NOT HAPPENED YET. So there is your proof!
Well we have already been through this. But feel free. And I will try to show you. SInce your a late commer to the convo.
No there is ONE Covenant with many aspects. Some concern all nations. Some concern all of Abrahams relatives. Some concern only a particular group of Abrahams relatives (Issac and jacob (Israel)
And I can not agree. as long as the land of canaan is still here. the covenant still stands. as does the promise of Lev 26. Have you read this? no one else seems to even want to comment on it.
Mosaic covenant concerning our debt to Christ. this is what Jesus was talking about. I am talking about the abrahamic covenant. which is a binding, eternal covenant made between God, Abraham, Issac and Jacob. And affirmed in Exek, Jeremiah, Daniel among other places. Which has NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION.