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What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and let one interpret, but if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. And let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, let the first keep silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; and the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets; for God is not a god of confusion, but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
Then Paul writes about women in the church, followed by this:
If anyone thinks he is a prophet of spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment. But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. But let all things be done properly and in an orderly fashion.
Now, I am trying to see where it is written that there is not to be all this charismatic stuff in the church, but I do not see it.
Wonder why?
Scripture never lies, but we sure do, whenever we believe we know something. For it is then that we know nothing as we ought.
Then Paul writes about women in the church, followed by this:
If anyone thinks he is a prophet of spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment. But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. But let all things be done properly and in an orderly fashion.
Now, I am trying to see where it is written that there is not to be all this charismatic stuff in the church, but I do not see it.
Wonder why?
Scripture never lies, but we sure do, whenever we believe we know something. For it is then that we know nothing as we ought.
E
If you look at scripture. God always starts things off with alot of signs and miracles. After awhile those signs start to fade.. why? They are no longer needed. People start to look at the signs, and less at God. As jesus said to Thomas. "greater yet are those who have not seen (the signs) and yet still believe) Gods wants us to have a relation ship with him. he wants to be our father. Do you speak to your earthly father in a forign language? or any of the other stuff??
How come in the later churches it was hardly even mentioned about all this charismatic stuff.
Second. What good do they do? I have been to these churches. There is nothing but people interupting the pastor to speak in some babble. Hardly any scripture teaching, they are to busy doing everything else they think makes them holy or whatever.
Tongues are great when they are used to teach someone in a native tongue. It is ok when someone prophesies in a tongue, and the interpretation is actually fullfilled. Especially for new people. But why would we as churchgoers who have been going to church for years need prophesy or tongues to make us closer to god? It makes no sense. Again most churches I go to have no or very few visitors. It is full of people who have been going for years. Why do they need this stuff? They should be more interested in the word. The fellowship. The discipleship. And hanging out with their brothers and sisters. No confusion and idle worship they call glorifying to God.
I find it interesting Paul had to rebuke these churches over and over because they placed their emphasis on these signs and wonders. And not on Christ.
How come in the later churches it was hardly even mentioned about all this charismatic stuff.
Second. What good do they do? I have been to these churches. There is nothing but people interupting the pastor to speak in some babble. Hardly any scripture teaching, they are to busy doing everything else they think makes them holy or whatever.
Tongues are great when they are used to teach someone in a native tongue. It is ok when someone prophesies in a tongue, and the interpretation is actually fullfilled. Especially for new people. But why would we as churchgoers who have been going to church for years need prophesy or tongues to make us closer to god? It makes no sense. Again most churches I go to have no or very few visitors. It is full of people who have been going for years. Why do they need this stuff? They should be more interested in the word. The fellowship. The discipleship. And hanging out with their brothers and sisters. No confusion and idle worship they call glorifying to God.
I find it interesting Paul had to rebuke these churches over and over because they placed their emphasis on these signs and wonders. And not on Christ.
Well, I see now. You believe the part of the bible that you like, that makes sense to you, and the parts that you do not like, or do not agree with what you believe, are obviously meant to say something else.
This is why you think I am speaking against the bible, when in reality you are misusing scripture, to your own end.
So, in fact, there is not much more for us to discuss, as I believe scripture, and do not use it to justify what I believe.
In Christ,
This is why you think I am speaking against the bible, when in reality you are misusing scripture, to your own end.
So, in fact, there is not much more for us to discuss, as I believe scripture, and do not use it to justify what I believe.
In Christ,
N
You love to expose other complete morons. Even if I speak the biblical terms of your Bible is still everything you pervert. You're cheeky and dodgy personality. You do not know life in Christ, so you do not know the anointing of the Spirit of the living, the prototype of which is oil.For people like you are not familiar with what it senses exercised to discern both good and evil! Although Scripture and the Spirit calls us to do it but you do not know how. In the spiritual world does not mean knowledge, but knowledge and definition of the Living God!
E
It goes both ways. I think you are taking those verses out of context. You state you don't even go to church. so why would you care?
I have a relationship with the father. I am with him on a daily basis. I feel him. I talk to him. I see him. I am still learning about him. I have never spoke in tongues. Prophesied (that I know of) or did any of the charismatic things you preach. I don't need it. How do you condem me because you state I have lost my way, and can never know god because I do not practice these things?
I know people who attend those charismatic churches that have no clue about who and what God is. They think he is a miracle worker thats all. They don't know the first thing about his love as a father Because their minds are on their senses. Not in their hearts.
My aunt walked away from God because of one of those churches. because she never heard much of a teaching. all she saw was a bunch of works. She felt left out because she kept being told if she did not speak in tongues she was never baptised wit the HS thus not saved. So she faked it and the pastor interpreted what she said. She knew it was a fake then. Thank God she found a church that worked on fellowship of its people. learning Gods word. Discipling each other. and being a family. .
I have a relationship with the father. I am with him on a daily basis. I feel him. I talk to him. I see him. I am still learning about him. I have never spoke in tongues. Prophesied (that I know of) or did any of the charismatic things you preach. I don't need it. How do you condem me because you state I have lost my way, and can never know god because I do not practice these things?
I know people who attend those charismatic churches that have no clue about who and what God is. They think he is a miracle worker thats all. They don't know the first thing about his love as a father Because their minds are on their senses. Not in their hearts.
My aunt walked away from God because of one of those churches. because she never heard much of a teaching. all she saw was a bunch of works. She felt left out because she kept being told if she did not speak in tongues she was never baptised wit the HS thus not saved. So she faked it and the pastor interpreted what she said. She knew it was a fake then. Thank God she found a church that worked on fellowship of its people. learning Gods word. Discipling each other. and being a family. .
I did not condemn you.
I am glad that you know the Father. What did He say to you the last time you were in His presence? What does He say about what you post here, or do you ask Him?
I left the church because they would not teach His children how to speak with His voice, and rather interpreted His scripture to suit their own aims and beliefs.
Why is it important to be able to prophesy? Well, for one thing, Paul wrote, (this is scripture right?) that we should earnestly desire to prophesy. This is just the first reason. The big reason is that when we can speak what we hear from God by His Spirit, then we can speak directly to the hearts of unbelievers, and they will fall down and give glory to God. (That also is scripture.) Oddly enough, this is the way that Jesus spoke. From there we can learn to see what He is doing, and do the very same things. These are also scripture.
Oh well, I am not going to convince you, nothing will, not even if one rose from the dead. (Because someone gets it wrong, that in no way invalidates any part of scripture. Who really believes scripture?)
I am glad that you know the Father. What did He say to you the last time you were in His presence? What does He say about what you post here, or do you ask Him?
I left the church because they would not teach His children how to speak with His voice, and rather interpreted His scripture to suit their own aims and beliefs.
Why is it important to be able to prophesy? Well, for one thing, Paul wrote, (this is scripture right?) that we should earnestly desire to prophesy. This is just the first reason. The big reason is that when we can speak what we hear from God by His Spirit, then we can speak directly to the hearts of unbelievers, and they will fall down and give glory to God. (That also is scripture.) Oddly enough, this is the way that Jesus spoke. From there we can learn to see what He is doing, and do the very same things. These are also scripture.
Oh well, I am not going to convince you, nothing will, not even if one rose from the dead. (Because someone gets it wrong, that in no way invalidates any part of scripture. Who really believes scripture?)
E
So instead of finding a church where you can assemble yourselves and be a part of the body, you left it. And in doind so refuse to assemble yourselve as is the matter of some??. Like paul warned us against doing. And you want us to think you are spoken to by God?
Anyone can say anything and say it is from God. It does not make it so.
I never have said that I do not assemble with others who love Jesus. You are making that assertion, without a basis in fact. Just as you make the assertion that Ramon attacks the bible, when what he has actually done is call some up on the way that they take some of scripture and ignore other parts, because it does not agree with what they believe. We call it the holy scripture, and that it is inspired by God, but we can change it to mean whatever we want, just by using the words, symbolic. "It did not mean that!"
I am sorry that your aunt was misused in such a way. But that was not the Holy Spirit's fault. If we were all taught about the gifts of the Spirit, instead of saying that they are not for the church today because we have the bible, (find that in the scripture,) we are leaving many young christians open to such deception, all so some jerk can receive glory from men.
But we are not to blame God, nor are we to rewrite scripture. We stop and look to Him, and seek His face, and wait to hear His still voice. Jesus talks to His bride. She is to be known by Him, not from afar, but intimately.
But I feel from the Spirit that you will not believe, so I will stop now.
In Christ,
vic
I am sorry that your aunt was misused in such a way. But that was not the Holy Spirit's fault. If we were all taught about the gifts of the Spirit, instead of saying that they are not for the church today because we have the bible, (find that in the scripture,) we are leaving many young christians open to such deception, all so some jerk can receive glory from men.
But we are not to blame God, nor are we to rewrite scripture. We stop and look to Him, and seek His face, and wait to hear His still voice. Jesus talks to His bride. She is to be known by Him, not from afar, but intimately.
But I feel from the Spirit that you will not believe, so I will stop now.
In Christ,
vic
But I am. We should believe what the Holy Spirit has revealed to us.
But you will ask why this is? Because the natural man does not understand the things of God. Now some may think that because they have received Jesus as Lord means that they are not a natural person any more, the fact is that it is necessary to have our minds renewed, not from scripture as some believe, but from the inner man, as it is written in scripture.
Way too many christians are still what Paul called meat heads, rather than Spirit heads.
But you will ask why this is? Because the natural man does not understand the things of God. Now some may think that because they have received Jesus as Lord means that they are not a natural person any more, the fact is that it is necessary to have our minds renewed, not from scripture as some believe, but from the inner man, as it is written in scripture.
Way too many christians are still what Paul called meat heads, rather than Spirit heads.
A
Do you think that a person has to go through a motion each time as if to awake the Holyspirit or do you think that there always has to be some striving done? The Spirit is a helper a comforter and will not speak of Himself.
Jesus thanked the Father for hiding things from the wise and prudent and for revealing it to babes.
Of coarse believers have the indwelling Spirit and of coarse He will reveal when He chooses, what He chooses, and we will progress in grace and knowledge. If we continue.
I just dont get why you go on like this...if you convinced a person to call out all day to the Spirit for knowledge they wouldnt get it. If they did it would be by being led to the word....to do their homework, listen to preaching, and renewing their mind. The innerman includes the mind. And Paul never called anyone a meathead...but rather said meat belongs to those who were mature who by obeying and living the word have their senses trained to discern both good and evil. Which includes odd teaching and guidance that comes from other people.
Although half of what you say is always true, yet it seems you destroy truths to do it i find that
odd and concerning.
What is carnal? Meat. Paul called some carnal minded.
I seem to hear just a part of what I say, and then the rest is hidden. The inner man does not inculde the mind, otherwise how could the mind be renewed from the inner man? If I was to believe as you indicate, the renewing would be from the written word. But this is not what is written in scripture. The inner man is where the Spirit dwells, where we have the mind of Christ.
The thing is, you have never come up against just how much we are able to become deceived by our minds, in our minds, even from scripture. You say that the Spirit will not speak from Himself, but what you do not do is complete the sentence that this small part comes from. John 16:13-15 is where the complete sentence is contained. It is a very bad practice to take a part of one sentence and make a doctrine from that. Truthfully, we should read and understand the entire paragraph, and sometimes even that can be misleading, and we need to understand the entire discourse, to get at what is truly being spoken of.
I was at one time able to take a part of a sentence, a sentence by itself, and convince myself of grace in-spite of my rampant sin. Thank God through Jesus Christ that He delivered me from this deception. He did not do so for my benefit, but for yours.
I seem to hear just a part of what I say, and then the rest is hidden. The inner man does not inculde the mind, otherwise how could the mind be renewed from the inner man? If I was to believe as you indicate, the renewing would be from the written word. But this is not what is written in scripture. The inner man is where the Spirit dwells, where we have the mind of Christ.
The thing is, you have never come up against just how much we are able to become deceived by our minds, in our minds, even from scripture. You say that the Spirit will not speak from Himself, but what you do not do is complete the sentence that this small part comes from. John 16:13-15 is where the complete sentence is contained. It is a very bad practice to take a part of one sentence and make a doctrine from that. Truthfully, we should read and understand the entire paragraph, and sometimes even that can be misleading, and we need to understand the entire discourse, to get at what is truly being spoken of.
I was at one time able to take a part of a sentence, a sentence by itself, and convince myself of grace in-spite of my rampant sin. Thank God through Jesus Christ that He delivered me from this deception. He did not do so for my benefit, but for yours.