CHRIST THE CHOSEN ONE, THE ELECT OF THE FATHER

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Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
Unbelievers CAN understand God as creator, and CAN understand the gospel message. Proof: Romans 2:14,15, which says that God created man with a conscience. The conscience can know right from wrong, so everyone is able to understand the existence of God and the promise of the gospel.
Matt 7:16 - Ye shall know them by their fruit.
Referring to false teachers.

The Gentiles did not have the oracles of God, but they had been regenerated.
If they had been regenerated, then they were saved. They may not have HAD the oracles, but they had to have heard them so they could believe them. (gospel)
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Salvation is through faith. So the natural man CAN and DOES believe
The natural man only has faith in mankind"s accomplishments. He does not have faith in the things of the Spirit. God is a spirit and we must worship him in spirit and truth. Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit which indwells the born again person.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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When anyone (doesn't say specifically Jew or Gentile)

You seem to believe in context, and context in 2 Cor 3:14 clearly states that it was the children of Israel. That has reference to spiritual Israel, Jacob/Israel.
 

ForestGreenCook

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You keep going to 1 Cor 2:14 to claim that unbelievers cannot understand or respond to the gospel, yet 2 Cor 3:16 refutes that idea soundly.
No it does not. 2 Cor 3:16 is clearly referencing the children of Israel, spiritual Israel/Jacob.
 

ForestGreenCook

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So, what truth, exactly do I need to be converted to? Explain clearly.

The knowledge of what Christ accomplished on the cross for those that his Father gave him. I consider you as one of the lost sheep of the house of Israel/Jacob, spiritual Israel.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Referring to false teachers
Matt 7:17 - Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit. The Gentiles, though they did not have the oracles of God, were already regenerated, evidenced by their fruit.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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The knowledge of what Christ accomplished on the cross for those that his Father gave him. I consider you as one of the lost sheep of the house of Israel/Jacob, spiritual Israel.
READ THESE VERSES CAREFULLY!

37 All that the Father gives me [[((shall come to me))]], and him that comes to me I will not cast out;
^
NOTICE VERSE 37 [[SHALL COME TO ME]] NOT I WILL GO TO THEM OR THE FATHER GOES TO THEM BUT [[((THEY COME TO ME))]]

38 for I have come down from heaven, not that I might do my will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the will of him that sent me, that I shall lose nothing of all that he has given me, but shall raise it up in the last day.

NOW READ THIS VERSE 40 WITH SPIRITUAL EYES WIDE OPEN AND WITHOUT BLINDNESS FROM YOUR god CALVIN!

40 For this is the will of my Father, that whoever sees the Son and believes on him may have life eternal, and I shall raise him up in the last day.


just a Reminder of WHO THE FATHER [[((GAVE))]] = that whoever sees the Son and believes on him


Verse 40 explains Verse 37!

COMPRENDE????????
 

ForestGreenCook

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FreeGrace2 said:
Unbelievers CAN understand God as creator, and CAN understand the gospel message. Proof: Romans 2:14,15, which says that God created man with a conscience. The conscience can know right from wrong, so everyone is able to understand the existence of God and the promise of the gospel.

Referring to false teachers.


If they had been regenerated, then they were saved. They may not have HAD the oracles, but they had to have heard them so they could believe them. (gospel)
You are determined to turn things backwards. Believing the oracles of God is not a condition to gain eternal salvation. Being eternally saved by God's sovereign grace has no conditions attached.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
Salvation is through faith. So the natural man CAN and DOES believe
The natural man only has faith in mankind"s accomplishments.
Who taught you this? The Bible says that salvation is for everyone. And salvation is through faith.

He does not have faith in the things of the Spirit.
Where do you find that the gospel is "things of the Spirit"? Do you have any verses that support your claims?

God is a spirit and we must worship him in spirit and truth.
Jesus was telling the woman that in order to worship God, one must possess a human spirit with which to worship, AND worship according to the truth of Scripture.

Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit which indwells the born again person.
That fruit of the Spirit is what believers have. All men are able to believe the gospel. Otherwise, Titus 2:11 cannot be true.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
Why aren't you convinced that I am saved? What or where is your hang-up?
David got himself in serious trouble with God when he numbered Israel, So, I am not to try to determine who the elect are.
God chooses from many people for service, including unsaved people, like Judas. We don't need to bother with 'who the elect are'. We should be aware of who are believers in Christ. That's what is important.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
You keep going to 1 Cor 2:14 to claim that unbelievers cannot understand or respond to the gospel, yet 2 Cor 3:16 refutes that idea soundly.
No it does not. 2 Cor 3:16 is clearly referencing the children of Israel, spiritual Israel/Jacob.
Please define specifically who are you referencing by "spiritual Israel/Jacob". Give them another description or name. I don't know what you mean.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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the unregenerate person does not have a desire to serve a spiritual God that he cannot understand
Romans 1:20
“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”

-
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
So, what truth, exactly do I need to be converted to? Explain clearly.
The knowledge of what Christ accomplished on the cross for those that his Father gave him.
Well then, you are really confused. You agreed that I was saved, yet you now say this? What you say here is what is necessary in order to BE SAVED.

I consider you as one of the lost sheep of the house of Israel/Jacob, spiritual Israel.
To be clear, the "lost sheep" was spoken of by Jesus to refer to EVERYONE in Israel, meaning all Jews. That was His initial ministry. When they rejected Him, He went to the Gentiles.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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You are determined to turn things backwards.
Really?

Believing the oracles of God is not a condition to gain eternal salvation.
You're just making is very difficult to follow you, with your weird choices of words, like:

oracles of God
spiritual Israel

Being eternally saved by God's sovereign grace has no conditions attached.
Wanna bet? Give me any verse that says what you think about "no conditions".

While you're desperately trying to find one (there aren't any) I'll prove to you that there is but ONE condition.

A jailer asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved. Paul's answer was to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and he would be saved.

That is the condition. If you don't believe Paul's answer, you don't know HOW to be saved.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Jesus was telling the woman that in order to worship God, one must possess a human spirit with which to worship, AND worship according to the truth of Scripture.
Luke 24:39 - for a spirit hath not flesh and bones.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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You're just making is very difficult to follow you, with your weird choices of words, like:

oracles of God
spiritual Israel

You must not be included as one of the remnant because the remnant has been revealed the knowledge of Jesus accomplishments on the cross. The remnant are the few that find the straight gate and the narrow way that leads to an abundant life as they sojourn here on earth.

About the oracles of God: If you read the 3rd chapter of Romans in the KJV, it will tell you all about the oracles of God.

Jacob's name was changed by God to be called no more Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28). Jacob represents God's elect people (Rom 9:11) His name has been changed to Israel, therefore he represents spiritual Israel, which includes people from every nation, kindred, and tongue, and are numbered as the sand in the seashore, and the stars in heaven, ennumberal.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Really?


You're just making is very difficult to follow you, with your weird choices of words, like:

oracles of God
spiritual Israel


Wanna bet? Give me any verse that says what you think about "no conditions".

While you're desperately trying to find one (there aren't any) I'll prove to you that there is but ONE condition.

A jailer asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved. Paul's answer was to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and he would be saved.

That is the condition. If you don't believe Paul's answer, you don't know HOW to be saved.

As I have told you many times; salvation=a deliverance saved=delivered save=deliver

Believing is not the cause of eternal deliverance. If you are already delivered eternally by God's sovereign grace, understanding the gospel can deliver you, as you sojourn here on earth,from ignorance of what Christ has done for you on the cross.

As I have told you before, if you apply all of the salvations (deliverance)scriptures to eternal deliverance, they will teach eternal deliverance is accomplished by man's works, and I am afraid that is why you are trying to make the natural man to understand spiritual things in order to save himself.

I do believe Paul's answer. You are applying his answer to be delivered to eternal deliverance, when actually Paul is speaking of a deliverance the born again jailer can receive here in this world, by understanding the gospel. The gospel does reveal how his elect (those that his Father gave him) were delivered eternally on the cross. The gospel does not instruct a person what he must do to get eternal deliverance.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Romans 1:20
“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”

-

Romans was written by Paul and directed to all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints. Those born again children that Paul is addressing in verse 28 did not like to retain God in their knowledge, and God gave them over to a reprobate mind.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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Here's another poster who does not really understand God's plan for redeemed and restored Israel on earth (as distinct from the Church). So the question arises: "Should not people carefully study the Bible before making categorical statements?"
it’s more fruitful to share the scripture with other believers who you think don’t understand it. Offering something like this can provoke one to change thier own mind toward the truth through consideration , study and prayer

“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭

This is a clear statement there is a false israel and a true one who God recognizes . there’s an earthly israel identified by the ot law circumcision and adherence to Moses word, it corresponds to the earthly Jerusalem and israel

being randomly born of abrams bloodline defines them , by thier flesh and not the spirit of Christ the seed of Abraham in them

the flesh israel is not the one who God counts for Abraham’s seed but they are born of any nationality or race , hearing the gospel and receiving the promise of remission of sins and the Holy Spirit

“Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. …that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ( Abraham’s seed ) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:7-9, 14, 16, 22-23, 26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed”

the flesh doesn’t identify israel anymore our faith in Christ does whether formerly jew or gentile make or female black or white if we hear and believe the gospel we have been born into the promise and become Abraham’s heirs of salvation who would be blessed through his seed Jesus Christ

there’s the old and the new in all creation and God created both

“Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we cling to the old fleshly things of this earth we can never receive the new things promised ahead