Contradiction of WORDS

[elf3]

I am not saying you said it but just asking you a question: So one who always does evil, unrighteousness and disobedient to God all their life can be saved?

I have already answered this a couple times. Go back and read on this forum or the other.

 

[SeaBass]

The only thing that needs "straightening out" is your intellectually dishonest methodology
of misrepresentation.

Intellectual dishonesty?????

I am not the one denying the fact Naaman had to do a work (dipping 7 times) to conditionally receive God's grace yet that work did not earn Naaman God's grace.

 

[Skinski7]

Funny you just took one snippet of all that Dc has said (not just here but on other posts and made him say something he didn't say). Why? Because you took it out of context and only used one "passage"

But he did say it. He claims that David was a child of God and secure in his salvation even while he was engaged in murder and adultery. He says the David would only receive punishment physically not eternally.

There is no purity of heart in the theology he is asserting. That is why people like him (and perhaps you) cannot address the specifics of what I write but instead will use broad strokes.

The root of the error is the teaching that one can be saved whilst still in rebellion. The root of the error is the teaching that one can still be engaged in wickedness and saved at the same time.

Let me ask you and we'll see where you stand.

Does a child molester have to stop molesting children BEFORE God will forgive them?

 

[SeaBass]

Maybe you should study as the word obeyed mean to pay attention to, pay heed to , to be attentive to and to confirm and has nothing to do with WORKS or OBEYING A COMMAND in order to receive something that is free and a gift....

Again your COC works for salvation taints your view, blinds your eyes and will take you some place that you do not want to go!

Paul proved your theology to be wrong and I see you have no response.


What Paul says:
1) ye were the servants of sin
2) but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
3) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Note the order of events? Note how Paul put obeying from the heart BEFORE BEFORE BEFORE being made free from sin and servant of righteousness.

 

[elf3]

This statement is true because it is an illustration via reductio as absurdum.

If one takes the false theology and logically takes it to its full meaning then it clearly teaches one can rape babies and enter the kingdom.

It teaches that a porn addict can be addicted to porn and enter the kingdom so why not a baby rapist? Why not a murderer? Why not a thief?

This is exactly why when I has asked hundreds of pastors if a child molester has to stop molesting children BEFORE GOd will forgive them they practically all respond with a NO. No the child molester does not have to stop. He can get saved IN his sins and then stop some time later on.

That is what they believe.

If that is true then salvation has NOTHING to do with a transformed heart but rather is a positional abstraction. The abstraction is premised on the legal exchange taught in Penal Substitution. It is heresy.

Skin let's hear you definitions of mercy and grace. Not from a dictionary but from you.

 

[Elin]

Where, what verse(s) does the bible say God's saving grace is unconditional?

One does not conditionally have to have faith to receive God's grace?

Faith is a gift of God, not a work of my own (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:37; Ro 12:3).

Salvation is conditioned on nothing the recipient is able to do.

That's why to the recipient, it is unconditional.

 

[SeaBass]

Again you fall back to an event that HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH BIBLICAL SALVATION of a person's eternal SOUL....as long as you keep using a tainted COC pamphlet or doctrinal tool to keep you in ignorance you will never get it!

More typical AVOIDANCE of the issue.

I NEVER have said it had anything to do with Naaman's salvation. It is a perfect example of God's grace having a condition of a work being done (dipping 7 times) to receive God's grace yet that work in no way earns God's grace.

 

[SeaBass]

You know what seamonkey! I have actually answered EVERY question you are again bringing up either on this forum or the other forum. In fact I personally have answered them all at least twice I think. How about you take the rest of the day off from posting and read EVERYTHING in both forums. You will see I have answered them all. And that's just me. Others have done the same.

NOW STOP ASKING THE SAME QUESTION OVER AND OVER!!! Go back and this time actually read!

Again, can one who becomes a Christian today NOT do good works yet still be saved anyway?
You have not answered the above question for you see the theological difficulty it is going to give you.

 

[dcontroversal]

So one who always does evil, unrighteousness and disobedient to God all their life can be saved?

So you are answering this question with a "yes"?

You can write it in blue, red and purple and then assume all you want sea perch as eternal salvation is based upon the faith of Jesus and has nothing at all to do with works.....get past salvation and then ask me about after being saved as EVERYONE who has posted that believes in ONCE SAVED always SAVED based upon the perfect faith of Christ has stated clearly our position on what happens AFTER one is saved.....You fail to understand that ANY GOOD WORK that FOLLOWS BIBLICAL salvation based upon FAITH is accomplished by JESUS dia the HOLY SPIRIT that dwells in you....WHAT happens after salvation is not what is being contested, but rather HOW ONE IS SAVED...so.....round and round the merry go round goes and you still fail to understand biblical salvation which is no big surprise here for sure!

 

[elf3]

This statement is true because it is an illustration via reductio as absurdum.

If one takes the false theology and logically takes it to its full meaning then it clearly teaches one can rape babies and enter the kingdom.

It teaches that a porn addict can be addicted to porn and enter the kingdom so why not a baby rapist? Why not a murderer? Why not a thief?

This is exactly why when I has asked hundreds of pastors if a child molester has to stop molesting children BEFORE GOd will forgive them they practically all respond with a NO. No the child molester does not have to stop. He can get saved IN his sins and then stop some time later on.

That is what they believe.

If that is true then salvation has NOTHING to do with a transformed heart but rather is a positional abstraction. The abstraction is premised on the legal exchange taught in Penal Substitution. It is heresy.

But he did say it. He claims that David was a child of God and secure in his salvation even while he was engaged in murder and adultery. He says the David would only receive punishment physically not eternally.

There is no purity of heart in the theology he is asserting. That is why people like him (and perhaps you) cannot address the specifics of what I write but instead will use broad strokes.

The root of the error is the teaching that one can be saved whilst still in rebellion. The root of the error is the teaching that one can still be engaged in wickedness and saved at the same time.

Let me ask you and we'll see where you stand.

Does a child molester have to stop molesting children BEFORE God will forgive them?

Did you become a non sinner before you came to Christ? And after you came to Christ have you now become sinless?

 

[SeaBass]

I have already answered this a couple times. Go back and read on this forum or the other.

So one who always does evil, unrighteousness and disobedient to God all their life can be saved?

 

[SeaBass]

Faith is a gift of God, not a work of my own (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:37; Ro 12:3).

Salvation is conditioned on nothing the recipient is able to do.

That's why to the recipient, it is unconditional.

Faith is a work God gave man to do. God is not the one who needs to do the work of faith to be saved.

Is God at fault and blame for all those people in the world that are faithless?

 

[SeaBass]

You can write it in blue, red and purple and then assume all you want sea perch as eternal salvation is based upon the faith of Jesus and have nothing at all to do with works.....get past salvation and then ask me about after being saved as EVERYONE who has posted that believes in ONCE SAVED always SAVED based upon the perfect faith of Christ has stated clearly our position on what happens AFTER one is saved.....You fail to understand that ANY GOOD WORK that FOLLOWS BIBLICAL salvation based upon FAITH is accomplished by JESUS dia the HOLY SPIRIT that dwells in you....WHAT happens after salvation is not what is being contested, but rather HOW ONE IS SAVED...so.....round and round the merry go round goes and you still fail to understand biblical salvation which is no big surprise here for sure!

So one who always does evil, unrighteousness and disobedient to God all their life can be saved?

I cannot figure out if you are answering the question with a 'yes' or 'no'. So how about just a simple "yes' or "no"

 

[elf3]

Faith is a gift of God, not a work of my own (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:37; Ro 12:3).

Salvation is conditioned on nothing the recipient is able to do.

That's why to the recipient, it is unconditional.

You can write it in blue, red and purple and then assume all you want sea perch as eternal salvation is based upon the faith of Jesus and have nothing at all to do with works.....get past salvation and then ask me about after being saved as EVERYONE who has posted that believes in ONCE SAVED always SAVED based upon the perfect faith of Christ has stated clearly our position on what happens AFTER one is saved.....You fail to understand that ANY GOOD WORK that FOLLOWS BIBLICAL salvation based upon FAITH is accomplished by JESUS dia the HOLY SPIRIT that dwells in you....WHAT happens after salvation is not what is being contested, but rather HOW ONE IS SAVED...so.....round and round the merry go round goes and you still fail to understand biblical salvation which is no big surprise here for sure!

Elin and Dc all we are doing by repeating ourselves to seabass is getting ourselves frustrated. We have ALL already answered these questions. Just tell him to go back and read again.

 

[Elin]

Sin doesn't need to be paid for.

You are right on the money.

Birds of a feather. . .

 

[Elin]

If God's grace is unconditionally as Elin says it is, you can do as you please and still receive God's grace. You can even be faithless and still somehow receive God's grace, (regardless of what Rom 5:2 says.)

Your foolish human reasoning is showing.

 

[Elin]

Repentance is in the disposition, not a physical action of "work."

Mt 12:41 "The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here."

Jonah 3:7-10 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water: But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."

Jesus said Nineveh repented and Jonah 3:10 says "And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way.."

Nineveh's repentance was a WORK God saw just as faith is a work Jesus saw, Mk 2:5.

Repentance and works of repentance are not the same thing.

 

[dcontroversal]

This statement is true because it is an illustration via reductio as absurdum.

If one takes the false theology and logically takes it to its full meaning then it clearly teaches one can rape babies and enter the kingdom.

It teaches that a porn addict can be addicted to porn and enter the kingdom so why not a baby rapist? Why not a murderer? Why not a thief?

This is exactly why when I has asked hundreds of pastors if a child molester has to stop molesting children BEFORE GOd will forgive them they practically all respond with a NO. No the child molester does not have to stop. He can get saved IN his sins and then stop some time later on.

That is what they believe.

If that is true then salvation has NOTHING to do with a transformed heart but rather is a positional abstraction. The abstraction is premised on the legal exchange taught in Penal Substitution. It is heresy.

So, then you believe you can loose salvation and that salvation is based upon your works right......so if you twist what I say and say I said something that I didn't say does that make you a liar and if so...by your own theology you have lost your salvation...right?

 

[Elin]

In other words a person gets saved and is eternally secure and will go to the kingdom no matter what they do. Salvation is this positional abstraction which has nothing to do with a transformed heart and thus one can just keep on sinning.

Saved people can even rape babies and murder people and will just receive chastisement in this world instead of blessings.

I cut the rest out because you, like everyone else who believes in works for salvation added to, embellished and stated something that I did not say so what does that make you.....?

Second, if we say that we have NO SIN (PRESENT CONTEXT) then we are a what?

Third...a saved CHILD OF GOD can and does sin, but does not live a continual LIFESTYLE of sin...

WAS DAVID a saved child of GOD after GOD'S on heart and mind when he commited adultery and then Killed URIAH so he could have BATHSHEBA? YES and as a child of God he paid the price in his PHYSICAL life by the CHASTENING HAND OF GOD, but STILL REMAINED a child of God...

You know when you add to someone's word and accuse them of saying something that they did not say that makes you a liar....so now that you broke the what 7th or 8th commandment and sinned does that mean you lost your salvation?

Standard intellectually dishonest methodology of Skinski7ism.

 

[dcontroversal]

Your foolish human reasoning is showing.

That would be reasoning from a person who does not understand biblical salvation as they (sea perch and SKIN) believe their works add to and or supplement their salvation so as to keep them saved......