Contradiction of WORDS

[Atwood]

Since everyone who believes and all who believe are saved,
nothing else can be essential to salvation.

You are simply denying what Paul said.

What a crock. To claim works save is to be the antithesis of prophet Paul.

Who said to the question, What MUST I DO to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus & you shall be saved? Was it Obamer?

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Who said,
By grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works?
Was it Al Sharpton?

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
Who wrote Romans? Was it Bill Clinton?
Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe;

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith,

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 4:1ff
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe,

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace;

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

 

[Atwood]

To Quote a verse from prophet Paul, trying to make works save is insane.
But someone cited Gal 3:27 below.

26 For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ.
As so very often in scripture, salvation, being a child of God, is through faith & nothing else.

[NO WATER, NO HUMAN WORKS]

"baptized into Christ" is not "immersed into water." Getting into water gets you in water; Spirit baptism puts you in Christ, that is in His Body. And that is no human work, but God's Work.

Anyone reading who has made an idol of water, making water your savior, is urged to repent & trust the real Savior, the Lord Jesus.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[newbirth]

To Quote a verse from prophet Paul, trying to make works save is insane.
But someone cited Gal 3:27 below.

26 For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ.
As so very often in scripture, salvation, being a child of God, is through faith & nothing else.

[NO WATER, NO HUMAN WORKS]

"baptized into Christ" is not "immersed into water." Getting into water gets you in water; Spirit baptism puts you in Christ, that is in His Body. And that is no human work, but God's Work.

Anyone reading who has made an idol of water, making water your savior, is urged to repent & trust the real Savior, the Lord Jesus.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

you keep making things up atwood.....read the scripture ...how did you arrive at spirit baptism?...does spirit baptism plant you in the likeness of his death? The spirit kills no one ....in baptism we humble ourselves unto death as Christ humbled himself unto death
Romans 6:3-9King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

 

[jdbear]

Originally posted by SeaBass,
But that is not the meaning. The broader context says Isa 53:4,5 "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows:...

This means Jesus healed them. It doesn't mean He became blind or leperous:
"When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses." Mt.8:16-17

Originally posted by SeaBass
...yet WE did esteem himstricken, smitten of God, and afflicted...

Understanding how THEY viewed our Savior makes all the difference. If you miss this simple point, you'll be led into major error. Remember this...they thought he was being punished by God for His sins.[/b] Read the scriptures with this in mind.

Originally posted by SeaBass,
...But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."
Christ's wounds and bruises was for our healing.

Jesus came here to reveal God to us. So that we would know God. He came here preaching repentance and faith in God. He was tortured and killed because of it. That's the simple truth.

Originally posted by SeaBass
Isa 53:6 goes on to say "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."
The context shows me Jesus did not do all this suffering for Himself but did it for you, me and everyone else. He suffered for OUR healing, He hath borne OUR griefs, the Lord laid on Him OUR iniquity.

Of course He did it for us, but not the way you think. Now watch:

"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:" Gal.3:13

Jesus was made a curse...because...the law says, "cursed is every one who hangs on a tree."
Why does the law say this?

"His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God...." De.21:23

Why is everyone who hangs on a tree "accursed by God."???
because

"And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:
Jesus committed no sin worty of death, but people viewed Him that way:

"What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death." Mt.26:66

SeaBass, Jesus came here, not to have our sins transferred onto Him. He came here to teach us about God...so we would repent and believe in God. Here's the proof:

"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
How are we made the righteousness of God in Him?
"And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ..." 2 Cor.5:18

God "reconciled" the Apostles to Himself by Jesus preaching and working among them and they believed in Him.
"...and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;" 2 Co.5:18

Now, we are reconciled the same way...believing in God through the preaching of other believers.

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;..." 2 Co.5:19
Jesus forgave repentant sinners immediately:

"Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little." Lk.7:47

She wasn't forgiven because her sins were "transferred onto Jesus". She was forgiven because she repented. This is what Jesus said.

People are saved the same way today:

"...and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." 2 Co.5:19

Originally posted by SeaBass
Heb 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

Hebrews is speaking of the OT law on sacrifice the same way. Ironic how Christians who teach against the law run to the law to prove their point...isn't it?

Originally posted by SeaBass
It is pointing out one person will not have to give account for the sins of another, one person will not be lost on the account of another person's sins. "The soul that sinneth, it shall die" each person will be held accountable and will die for his OWN sins.

Exactly right. Nobody is held accountable for the sin of another person. Escpeially not the Son of God. Jesus, who knew no sin was made sin (in the eyes of sinners)

Originally posted by SeaBass
In the OT, offering of the blood of bulls and goats could bring one forgiveness.
If the blood of animals cold be used to forgive sins then why not the blood of a perfectly sinless sacrifice as Christ?
Heb 9:14 "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"

The OT sacrificial system mirrored Jesus sacrifice. It was a means to "purge your conscience." In other words "repent."
SeaBass, I'll show you how this fits into the OT law. It has to do with God not only forgiving sins on earth through Jesus, but also how the Blood of our Lord cleansed the temple in Heaven after it was defiled by sinning angels. It's incredible. I'm so busy I don't have time right now.

 

[jdbear]

(Sorry, left this part off.

Originally posted by SeaBass
But could that removal of sin through repentance be possible without a sacrifice of Christ's blood? No.

Yes they could, because sin is forgiven through repentance and faith in God:

" I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Mt.9:13

Jesus doid not come here for people who already have repented and are living for God:

"And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless." Lk.1:6

People like Zechariah and Elizabeth had already repented and had faith in God. Jesus said He didn't come to call such people.





And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. Lk.1:16

 

[SeaBass]

(Sorry, left this part off.

Yes they could, because sin is forgiven through repentance and faith in God:

" I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Mt.9:13

Jesus doid not come here for people who already have repented and are living for God:

"And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless." Lk.1:6

People like Zechariah and Elizabeth had already repented and had faith in God. Jesus said He didn't come to call such people.





And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. Lk.1:16

Heb 9:22 "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."

The Jews rejected Christ and His shed blood, so the Hebrew writer is making a comparison between shedding of blood in the OT to the shedding of Christ's blood in the NT. Under the OT there had to be a continual shedding of the blood of animals to have forgiveness of sins, so why/how could the Jews object to the shedding of Christ's blood to forgive sins.

"Since there was so much use of blood in connection with the Mosaic testament and all that pertained to that testament, how can any of the readers find fault with Christ's death and blood in connection with the new testament? They should do the very opposite: appreciate the fact that Christ's death and blood are infinitely more precious than all the Mosaic sacrifices." RCH Lenski

 

[elf3]

Heb 9:22 "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."

The Jews rejected Christ and His shed blood, so the Hebrew writer is making a comparison between shedding of blood in the OT to the shedding of Christ's blood in the NT. Under the OT there had to be a continual shedding of the blood of animals to have forgiveness of sins, so why/how could the Jews object to the shedding of Christ's blood to forgive sins.

"Since there was so much use of blood in connection with the Mosaic testament and all that pertained to that testament, how can any of the readers find fault with Christ's death and blood in connection with the new testament? They should do the very opposite: appreciate the fact that Christ's death and blood are infinitely more precious than all the Mosaic sacrifices." RCH Lenski

You say and quote this but yet you still believe your works will save you? You are a walking talking contradiction.

 

[Elin]

Understanding how THEY viewed our Savior makes all the difference. If you miss this simple point, you'll be led into major error. Remember this...they thought he was being punished by God for His sins.
Read the scriptures with this in mind.

The Scriptures are not to be read with an unbeliever's interpretation in mind.
They are to be read with the word of God in mind:

"Above all you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about

by the prophet's own interpretation (understanding).

For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man,

but men spoke as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." (2Pe 1:20-21)

It matters not what the prophet thought.

Your beliefs are more suitable to the synagogue where Is 53:5 is denied that Christ Jesus was punished
for the sin of those who believe in him.

Jesus came here to reveal God to us. So that we would know God. He came here preaching repentance and faith in God.
He was tortured and killed because of it. That's the simple truth.

That's only half of the truth.

The whole biblical truth is that he came to die as a ransom for the sins of many
(Mt 20:28, 26:28; Jn 10:11).

Your beliefs are more suitable to the synagogue where Jesus of Nazareth is denied as the atoning death for sin.

Jesus came here, not to have our sins transferred onto Him. He came here to teach us about God...so we would repent and believe in God.

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree." (2Pe 2:24)

Your beliefs are more suitable to the synagogue where it is denied that our sin was laid on Christ Jesus.

The OT sacrificial system mirrored Jesus sacrifice. It was a means to "purge your conscience." In other words "repent."

So Jesus of Nazareth was a sin sacrifice after all.

the Blood of our Lord cleansed

So Jesus is Lord, and his sacrificial death cleanses.

That's good to see.

 

[SeaBass]

This means Jesus healed them. It doesn't mean He became blind or leperous:
"When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses." Mt.8:16-17


Understanding how THEY viewed our Savior makes all the difference. If you miss this simple point, you'll be led into major error. Remember this...they thought he was being punished by God for His sins.[/b] Read the scriptures with this in mind.



Jesus came here to reveal God to us. So that we would know God. He came here preaching repentance and faith in God. He was tortured and killed because of it. That's the simple truth.


Of course He did it for us, but not the way you think. Now watch:

"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:" Gal.3:13

Jesus was made a curse...because...the law says, "cursed is every one who hangs on a tree."
Why does the law say this?

"His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God...." De.21:23

Why is everyone who hangs on a tree "accursed by God."???
because

"And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:
Jesus committed no sin worty of death, but people viewed Him that way:

"What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death." Mt.26:66

SeaBass, Jesus came here, not to have our sins transferred onto Him. He came here to teach us about God...so we would repent and believe in God. Here's the proof:

"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
How are we made the righteousness of God in Him?
"And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ..." 2 Cor.5:18

God "reconciled" the Apostles to Himself by Jesus preaching and working among them and they believed in Him.
"...and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;" 2 Co.5:18

Now, we are reconciled the same way...believing in God through the preaching of other believers.

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;..." 2 Co.5:19
Jesus forgave repentant sinners immediately:

"Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little." Lk.7:47

She wasn't forgiven because her sins were "transferred onto Jesus". She was forgiven because she repented. This is what Jesus said.

People are saved the same way today:

"...and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." 2 Co.5:19



Hebrews is speaking of the OT law on sacrifice the same way. Ironic how Christians who teach against the law run to the law to prove their point...isn't it?


Exactly right. Nobody is held accountable for the sin of another person. Escpeially not the Son of God. Jesus, who knew no sin was made sin (in the eyes of sinners)


The OT sacrificial system mirrored Jesus sacrifice. It was a means to "purge your conscience." In other words "repent."
SeaBass, I'll show you how this fits into the OT law. It has to do with God not only forgiving sins on earth through Jesus, but also how the Blood of our Lord cleansed the temple in Heaven after it was defiled by sinning angels. It's incredible. I'm so busy I don't have time right now.

I can only repeat what the bible says "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities"
The verse point blank says Christ died for OUR sins.

Rev 1:5 "Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood"

-----------------------------------

1 Jn 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

1 Jn 4:10 "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."

Heb 2:17 "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people."

Rom 3:25 "Whom God hath set forthto be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"


Propitiation/reconcilliation in the above 4 verses means an appeasement. It means Christ substituted Himself for our sins, Chrsit appeased, paid for our sins by His own shed blood.

Man cannot do anything of and by himself to remove his own sins, so something was needed to appease God's wrath against man's sins. Christ stood in as that appeasement between man and God. Yet this appeasement could only work if the sacrifice was perfectly sinless. Christ being that perfect sinless sacrifice appeased God's wrath in that Christ's blood allows men's sins to be remitted.

So Christ acts as a propitiation, a conciliatory offering to God for the sins of man.

So if Christ was not the propitiation for your sins, then you have no way possible for your sins to ever be remitted.
No shedding of Christ's blood = no remission of sins for you.

 

[SeaBass]

You say and quote this but yet you still believe your works will save you? You are a walking talking contradiction.

Christ died, shed His blood for every man, Heb 2:9 - so why is it every man will not be saved?

For every man will not conditionally obey Christ, Heb 5:9 taking advantage of what Christ did for him.

 

[SeaBass]

You mean like you are afraid to give a simple answer yes or no to this one, which has been asked you a number of times now:

Are you claiming that all the Presbyterians who believe in the Son of God (trust the Savior Lord Jesus), yet never get immersed in water (only sprinkled) go to the Lake of Fire?

ANYONE not water baptized for remission of sins CANNOT be saved.

Are you going to argue one can be saved in his unremitted/unforgiven sins?

My question still remains: So one who always does evil, unrighteousness and disobedient to God all their life can be saved?

 

[elf3]

ANYONE not water baptized for remission of sins CANNOT be saved.

Are you going to argue one can be saved in his unremitted/unforgiven sins?

My question still remains: So one who always does evil, unrighteousness and disobedient to God all their life can be saved?

Man your rich! So the person who gives their life to Christ just before they die but are never baptized and never did any "good works" isn't saved?

 

[SeaBass]

Romans 6 is not a passage on salvation, but the Christian Life after Saved.
And it has no water in it. Also, it never says that works save.

Rom 6 is about salvation and has water baptism speaks of water baptism.

From Rom 6:

baptized into Jesus Christ is about salvation

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life is about salvation

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin is about salvation

For he that is dead is freed from sin is about salvation

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him is about salvation

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? is about salvation

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness is about salvation

 

[elf3]

ANYONE not water baptized for remission of sins CANNOT be saved.

Are you going to argue one can be saved in his unremitted/unforgiven sins?

My question still remains: So one who always does evil, unrighteousness and disobedient to God all their life can be saved?

Oh and to answer your bottom question there I personally have answered that at least twice.

I really think you have a thing called "selective reading" only read and comprehend what fits you best.

 

[notuptome]

ANYONE not water baptized for remission of sins CANNOT be saved.

This is actually true but you are wrong to think it is water baptism. It is the only baptism that saves meaning it is the Holy Spirit baptism not water.

Are you going to argue one can be saved in his unremitted/unforgiven sins?

Mutually exclusive concepts.

My question still remains: So one who always does evil, unrighteousness and disobedient to God all their life can be saved?

A straw man argument. Even the worst sinner will do a good deed on occasion. What about the man who does good deeds but denies the efficacy of the blood of Christ and the grace of God? Can one be saved if they have their own gospel?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

Since everyone who believes and all who believe are saved,
nothing else can be essential to salvation.



What a crock. To claim works save is to be the antithesis of prophet Paul.

Who said to the question, What MUST I DO to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus & you shall be saved? Was it Obamer?

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Who said,
By grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works?
Was it Al Sharpton?

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
Who wrote Romans? Was it Bill Clinton?
Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe;

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith,

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 4:1ff
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe,

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace;

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

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Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.

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For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

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What Paul said in Rom 6:

1) ye were the servants of sin
2) but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine
3) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

The order of events show obedience comes BEFORE being made free from sin.

They did not go from being "servants of sin" to "servants of righteousness" by doing nothing. It took obedience to the will of God for that to happen. You can deny this but will never get rid of it.

The context says " obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you"

That obedience to the doctrine that lead them to be free from sin, verse 17,18 was water baptism.

Rom 6:7 "For he that is dead is freed from sin."

So one must be "dead" to be freed from sin so their obedience must have included some thing that made them "dead".

The thing that made them "dead" and freed from sin is water baptism: Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

So it is water baptism that makes one "dead" to be freed from sin.

 

[SeaBass]

To Quote a verse from prophet Paul, trying to make works save is insane.
But someone cited Gal 3:27 below.

26 For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ.
As so very often in scripture, salvation, being a child of God, is through faith & nothing else.

[NO WATER, NO HUMAN WORKS]

"baptized into Christ" is not "immersed into water." Getting into water gets you in water; Spirit baptism puts you in Christ, that is in His Body. And that is no human work, but God's Work.

Anyone reading who has made an idol of water, making water your savior, is urged to repent & trust the real Savior, the Lord Jesus.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

F.F. Bruce: “baptism in the New Testament is always baptism in water unless the context shows it to be something else; that is to say, the word is always to be understood literally unless the context indicates a figurative meaning” (Questions Answered, p. 106).

There is nothing in Gal 3:27 that says baptism is figurative, so it refers to a literal immersion in water as Phillip literally immersed the eunuch in water into Christ.

 

[SeaBass]

Man your rich! So the person who gives their life to Christ just before they die but are never baptized and never did any "good works" isn't saved?

Acts 2:38 baptism is commanded for remission of sins.
Mk 16:16 Jesus said "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved".

Eph 2:10 makes it IMPOSSIBLE for one who becomes a Christian but never do any good works yet still be saved. So if one never does any good works, then he was never a Christian.

 

[SeaBass]

Oh and to answer your bottom question there I personally have answered that at least twice.

I really think you have a thing called "selective reading" only read and comprehend what fits you best.

So one who always does evil, unrighteousness and disobedient to Godall their life can be saved?

The answer to the question is "NO". It is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to ever be saved without ever doing obedient works or good works. No works = no salvation.

 

[Elin]

So one who always does evil, unrighteousness and disobedient to Godall their life can be saved?

That probably describes the thief on the cross,
and he was saved just hanging there unable to perform anything.