Did God die on the cross.
- Thread starter watchmen
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
Mr 2:3And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.Mr 2:4And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.Mr 2:5When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.Mr 2:6But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,Mr 2:7Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?Mr 2:8And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?Mr 2:9Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?Mr 2:10But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)Mr 2:11I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.Mr 2:12And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. one would think that only the Father would call someone son, plus also even the scribes knew that only God can forgive sins. the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, that sure sounds like God to me
so watchmen I knew you were misguided in alot of areas in the Bible but I never knew you didn't believe the Bible I guess that explains how you teach such false teachings. God did die the Bible tells us the Almighty died. so with your statement you confess that you don't believe the Bible. how sad that must be to claim to be a Christian but not believe every word that proceedeth from God. can't pick and choose the parts you want to believe.
Re 1:8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.Re 1:11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.Re 1:12And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;Re 1:13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.Re 1:14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;Re 1:15And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.Re 1:16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.Re 1:17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:Re 1:18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
1
Actually, your conclusion is possibly based on a false premise because your first post states:
You did not restrict the voting or the discussions to Trinitarians, but instead said protestants. I'm not even sure if AnnRev voted and if she did, she likely voted on the "no" side. She, however else she might be classified, is not classified as a Trinitarian. Therefore the only thing that the pole proves is that there are more people on this site (that voted) that believe that God died on the cross.
Perhaps next time the pole should also include whether one believes in the trinity. Perhaps then it would prove your point at least on this site of those that voted.
Not an attack...just a point of clarification.
You did not restrict the voting or the discussions to Trinitarians, but instead said protestants. I'm not even sure if AnnRev voted and if she did, she likely voted on the "no" side. She, however else she might be classified, is not classified as a Trinitarian. Therefore the only thing that the pole proves is that there are more people on this site (that voted) that believe that God died on the cross.
Perhaps next time the pole should also include whether one believes in the trinity. Perhaps then it would prove your point at least on this site of those that voted.
Not an attack...just a point of clarification.
THANKS, but i'm not a SHE.
I did vote, and I voted NO.
While it seems to not matter what i think, I will express it once again. Jesus is the Son of God, he was the son of God when he was in Heaven before he came to earth and he sat upon his very own throne, not Gods.
"To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne." Rev 3:20
God is made up of seven spirits, "And out of the throne proceed lightnings and voices and thunders. And [there was] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God;." Rev 4:5
When Jesus was here in the flesh said "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." John 4:24
Emanuel, God with us. Jesus was given the same power that God has, "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." Mat 11:27
"For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel." John 5:20 God shows Jesus how to use his power.
"For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son" John 5:21-22
When Jesus died he called out to God, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" Mat 27:46
Yes, Jesus was alive in heaven before the earth was formed, "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." John 17:24 But he was not God even then.
Even the Nicene Creed talks about three separate individuals. Where the trinity comes from is 1st John 5:7. "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." Being one and workign as one are two separate things. A basket ball team is one, but made of more than one.
However, I John 5:7 was not found in the original text and was omitted in later versions and replaced with part of I John 5:6 "And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth."
Since the Trinity has no biblical foundation, it does not exist. As it was pointed out earlier, God cannot die, if he does all things will cease. It's too bad Satan didn't have enough brains to figure out that if he took over God that he himself would also die. Stupid is as stupid does.
Jesus is the son of God, he is not as powerful as God and yet he posses the same ability because God gave it to him, That is why so many get Jesus confused with God.
If you want to take it farther, ask why is the Trinity taught? Perhaps it is the calling card of Satan. If Satan can do away with the existence of a physical and weaker Jesus than God, then when he sits on the throne and proclaims himself to be God, he can also claim to be Jesus and not have to produce a physical body. But all that is another subject.
Jesus is not God, never has been, never will be.
I did vote, and I voted NO.
While it seems to not matter what i think, I will express it once again. Jesus is the Son of God, he was the son of God when he was in Heaven before he came to earth and he sat upon his very own throne, not Gods.
"To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne." Rev 3:20
God is made up of seven spirits, "And out of the throne proceed lightnings and voices and thunders. And [there was] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God;." Rev 4:5
When Jesus was here in the flesh said "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." John 4:24
Emanuel, God with us. Jesus was given the same power that God has, "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." Mat 11:27
"For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel." John 5:20 God shows Jesus how to use his power.
"For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son" John 5:21-22
When Jesus died he called out to God, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" Mat 27:46
Yes, Jesus was alive in heaven before the earth was formed, "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." John 17:24 But he was not God even then.
Even the Nicene Creed talks about three separate individuals. Where the trinity comes from is 1st John 5:7. "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." Being one and workign as one are two separate things. A basket ball team is one, but made of more than one.
However, I John 5:7 was not found in the original text and was omitted in later versions and replaced with part of I John 5:6 "And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth."
Since the Trinity has no biblical foundation, it does not exist. As it was pointed out earlier, God cannot die, if he does all things will cease. It's too bad Satan didn't have enough brains to figure out that if he took over God that he himself would also die. Stupid is as stupid does.
Jesus is the son of God, he is not as powerful as God and yet he posses the same ability because God gave it to him, That is why so many get Jesus confused with God.
If you want to take it farther, ask why is the Trinity taught? Perhaps it is the calling card of Satan. If Satan can do away with the existence of a physical and weaker Jesus than God, then when he sits on the throne and proclaims himself to be God, he can also claim to be Jesus and not have to produce a physical body. But all that is another subject.
Jesus is not God, never has been, never will be.
Last edited:
1
First things first. Please accept my apology for referring to you as she.
Secondly, this is not to debate you because I don't intend to, but I will respond to your question above.
The trinity is not a theological doctrine that someone just sat down and wrote. It has been developed since the early church fathers in response to ideas that have weakened the biblical view of Christ. I recommend a study on this history and you will see the defense of scripture against false doctrine which led to this doctrine as well as how the false doctrines eventually developed into heresies and cults.
You will also find what you believe among those early debates, whatever it is that you believe.
Secondly, this is not to debate you because I don't intend to, but I will respond to your question above.
The trinity is not a theological doctrine that someone just sat down and wrote. It has been developed since the early church fathers in response to ideas that have weakened the biblical view of Christ. I recommend a study on this history and you will see the defense of scripture against false doctrine which led to this doctrine as well as how the false doctrines eventually developed into heresies and cults.
You will also find what you believe among those early debates, whatever it is that you believe.
1Covenant That was more a statment rather than a question i was asking. I'm not sure if you believe in the trinity or not with your statement. I do not, and I will never do so. Even in my simplest days of youth I never mistook Jesus for God. I don't know very many people that do either. It seems only the very religious do, such as you find in this website.
I will not debate the issue either because I know that religious people perceive Jesus as God while others like me do not. It is not because of education or the lack of it either. It took me along time before i figured out why others could not see that Jesus was not God, that happened when i figured out that the antichrist was a spirit about 20 years ago. I used to think people were dumb, but then i realized that they cannot see Jesus is the son because God has not opened their eyes yet.
Jesus said the Gospel would be preached throughout the world, but he didn't say the truth would be. Knowing that Satan is the Man of Sin and the Antichrist is a spirit, I know why people cannot see that Jesus is not God nor part of any Trinity. Like John said, they do not have the spirit of God in them, or they are really deceived like Jesus said many would be.
As for researching the Trinity, I have spent plenty of time on the matter and its history and it is as basic as i have already said, it did not exist until man placed the label on God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity belief did not start until around 300-325 AD. But few consider that Satan will use verses to bring about his reign to make people follow him instead.
Also as i have said, what happens to the other sons of God, why are they left out of this God head? People made the Trinity, not God.
Jesus died on the cross, spirit and all: "And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Mat 10:28 Hell is the grave with witch a person is laid to rest. It is not a place of torment where people keep living in distress.
If Jesus did not die on the cross, then we have been lied to and the crucifixion is not true. Jesus died and went to Hades,(hell) the grave. God resurrected him back on the third day and he became the first one resurrected from the dead. "and from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead." Rev 1:5
Jesus did not return to heaven to be with God when he died, he did not go to comfort the souls of those who were already dead. He was dead. The question then remains, some think God did not resurrect Jesus because Jesus said he will raise himself up on the third day. This may be so through prophecy and because Jesus was given all the powers of God. We do not know for any certainty what Jesus meant when he said he would raise himself back up. The door is open to suggestion and guessing at the present time.
But one thing for certain, God did not die on the cross. Why pretend to be smart over a matter that is easy to understand? It is because people are afraid of the truth and it would hender the many false teachings going on over christ. The Gospel and the real truth are two different things to be taught.
I will not debate the issue either because I know that religious people perceive Jesus as God while others like me do not. It is not because of education or the lack of it either. It took me along time before i figured out why others could not see that Jesus was not God, that happened when i figured out that the antichrist was a spirit about 20 years ago. I used to think people were dumb, but then i realized that they cannot see Jesus is the son because God has not opened their eyes yet.
Jesus said the Gospel would be preached throughout the world, but he didn't say the truth would be. Knowing that Satan is the Man of Sin and the Antichrist is a spirit, I know why people cannot see that Jesus is not God nor part of any Trinity. Like John said, they do not have the spirit of God in them, or they are really deceived like Jesus said many would be.
As for researching the Trinity, I have spent plenty of time on the matter and its history and it is as basic as i have already said, it did not exist until man placed the label on God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity belief did not start until around 300-325 AD. But few consider that Satan will use verses to bring about his reign to make people follow him instead.
Also as i have said, what happens to the other sons of God, why are they left out of this God head? People made the Trinity, not God.
Jesus died on the cross, spirit and all: "And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Mat 10:28 Hell is the grave with witch a person is laid to rest. It is not a place of torment where people keep living in distress.
If Jesus did not die on the cross, then we have been lied to and the crucifixion is not true. Jesus died and went to Hades,(hell) the grave. God resurrected him back on the third day and he became the first one resurrected from the dead. "and from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead." Rev 1:5
Jesus did not return to heaven to be with God when he died, he did not go to comfort the souls of those who were already dead. He was dead. The question then remains, some think God did not resurrect Jesus because Jesus said he will raise himself up on the third day. This may be so through prophecy and because Jesus was given all the powers of God. We do not know for any certainty what Jesus meant when he said he would raise himself back up. The door is open to suggestion and guessing at the present time.
But one thing for certain, God did not die on the cross. Why pretend to be smart over a matter that is easy to understand? It is because people are afraid of the truth and it would hender the many false teachings going on over christ. The Gospel and the real truth are two different things to be taught.
1Covenant No, I don't use the bible or verses to teach me what to believe. I believe because of the spirit of God. I use the bible and its verses to help show how many things are over looked in the teachings because of the lack of knowledge and understanding. If God has many sons, why do people want to believe in the Trinity?
Jesus is the only "begotten" son, he is not the only son. God is made of Seven spirits and Jesus was given power over them for this earth until the kingdom is restored where God will come down and be our God at that time. Jesus will not be that God.
Then there is this to consider, how may other worlds outside of our universe has God created for his other sons? Do we dare to limit God to this universe and galaxy when he was around long before this ever came into existence? Lets not forget that God once considered destroying all he had created, including us. Would that have destroyed Gods kingdom? No. his kingdom is not in this world or this galaxy.
Jesus is the only "begotten" son, he is not the only son. God is made of Seven spirits and Jesus was given power over them for this earth until the kingdom is restored where God will come down and be our God at that time. Jesus will not be that God.
Then there is this to consider, how may other worlds outside of our universe has God created for his other sons? Do we dare to limit God to this universe and galaxy when he was around long before this ever came into existence? Lets not forget that God once considered destroying all he had created, including us. Would that have destroyed Gods kingdom? No. his kingdom is not in this world or this galaxy.
"the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose" Gen 6:2
"The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them: the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown." Gen 6:4
"Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan also came among them." Job 1:6
"Again it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan came also among them to present himself before Jehovah." Job 2:1
And the one I like the best:
"Gird up now thy loins like a man; For I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding. Who determined the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who stretched the line upon it? Whereupon were the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone thereof, When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38:3-7
"I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High. Nevertheless ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes." Psalm 82:6-7
God has many sons besides Jesus. If Jesus is Jehovah, why did he change his name to Jesus?
Did Jesus ever claim to have children?
"The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them: the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown." Gen 6:4
"Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan also came among them." Job 1:6
"Again it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan came also among them to present himself before Jehovah." Job 2:1
And the one I like the best:
"Gird up now thy loins like a man; For I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding. Who determined the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who stretched the line upon it? Whereupon were the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone thereof, When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38:3-7
"I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High. Nevertheless ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes." Psalm 82:6-7
God has many sons besides Jesus. If Jesus is Jehovah, why did he change his name to Jesus?
Did Jesus ever claim to have children?
Last edited:
Never are they taught or thought to be 1/3 God each they are each fully, and I repeat - fully - God. That logic comes from your human mind which is incapable of understanding how God can be three in one and yet one God, forcing you to divide an infinite being into even and equal thirds 1/3 and claim that is what Trinity teaches. It is not. First you have to understand what the Trinity teach and what you allege is not what the Trinity teach.
- Status