Did God die on the cross.

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Did God die on the cross

  • yes

    Votes: 12 42.9%
  • no

    Votes: 14 50.0%
  • I am not sure.

    Votes: 2 7.1%

  • Total voters
    28
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Slepsog4

Guest
watchmen,

You completely miss the issue and make up your own definition to deny.

The term God is a noun and can be both small case and capitalized. In Greek a noun that can be used both ways cannot be a Proper noun -- cannot be used as a Name for a person or place.

The term God refers to a class of being. That class of being is the only class that is divine. It is the only class that has the attributes of deity. All others are fake, false, non-existent.

This term God is plural in the Hebrew language beginning in Genesis. At that time he said. "Let Us make man in Our image."

The Scripture reveals 3 persons make up that one godhead (divine nature). The Father is truly God, but distinct from both the Son and the Holy Spirit. Jesus, the Son, is truly God, but distinct from both the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is truly God, but distinct from both the Father and the Son.
 
Sep 27, 2009
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God is one person with three jobs: father, son and holy ghost. That is my take.
 
Sep 2, 2009
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watchmen,

The Scripture reveals 3 persons make up that one godhead (divine nature). The Father is truly God, but distinct from both the Son and the Holy Spirit. Jesus, the Son, is truly God, but distinct from both the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is truly God, but distinct from both the Father and the Son.
Not bad, well said to defend the three separate beings. Now, what about Gods other sons, how do they come into play? Doesn't that make it more than three?
 
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Definition_Christ

Guest
Not bad, well said to defend the three separate beings. Now, what about Gods other sons, how do they come into play? Doesn't that make it more than three?
There is only one begotten Son of God.
 
Sep 2, 2009
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Yes, ONE BEGOTTEN, but how many have not ever been born of a woman?

You confuse the term "only begotten son" with the term "only son." It doesn't say ONLY SON, it says only begotten son. None of Gods other sons have been born of flesh or sent to be a savior.

There is a difference. How many sons does God have?
 
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1Covenant

Guest
None of Gods other sons have been born of flesh or sent to be a savior.

There is a difference. How many sons does God have?
Once again, I ask where do you get the idea of many sons other than in reference to God's people?
 
Sep 2, 2009
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Once again, I ask where do you get the idea of many sons other than in reference to God's people?
Did you not read what I said before?

Gen 6:1 & 2 "Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose."

Gen 6:4 "There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown."

Job 1:6 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them."

Job 2:1 "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord."

and my favorite:

Job 38:4 - 7 "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

and of course we can't rule these out either
:

Ps 82:6 "I said, "You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High."

Ps 89:6 "For who in the heavens can be compared to the Lord? Who among the sons of the mighty can be likened to the Lord?"

Perhaps this is where the ancient God myths came from. It appears some of Gods children were punished for what they did and they died for doing so. The Sons of God were considered Gods, Just like so many consider Jesus as a God, or God. But yet he is not the almighty God.
 
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1Covenant

Guest
Did you not read what I said before?
Nope. Apparently, I did not see it.

Gen 6:1 & 2 "Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose."
This is in reference to the Godly line of Adam through Seth as contrasted against the ungodly line of Cain in the very preceeding versus. You will also note that Cain's line is identified with all manner of earthly accomplishments while Seth's line is not. There only accomplishment in Seth's line was living righteously (of whom Enoch it is said that God took him), obeying God by filling the earth, and living separately from the wicked as the lineage indicates. The people of God always have their identity with God.
The great sin here is the sin that always impacts God people throughout the Bible, their hearts are taken away to folllow all manner of sin through marrying unbelieving women. The only reason Noah is left alone after this long list of Godly people is laid out, is because all the other righteous people have not left a Godly seed because of allowing this intermarrying. This is consistent with what happens when the righteous are unequally yoked.
"And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly."
"The righteous is more excellent than his neighbour: but the way of the wicked seduceth them"
"Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?"

Gen 6:4 "There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown."
Dido from above.

Job 1:6 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them." Job 2:1 "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord."
These are also referenced elsewhere as angels. We too are called sons of God but we are not angels. Symbolic language does not relay equality in all aspects. We and the angels are not equal to God, but THE Son of God is. Instead we should view such language as those that are "led by the Spirit of God, those are sons of God," whether angels or men. It is a form of identity. You are American which means you have certain things that define you as such (perhaps a love for the american flag) but it does not mean that you have to be white caucasian, though you may be.
Also, there are many other references where men are referred to as children of the devil, sons of disobedience, on and on. Symbolic language is important for what it relays not for exact description. Peter was addressed as Satan but none of us are jumping to any wild conclusions. The key is recognizing symbolic language and in context understanding it. Here what is important in this passage, Satan is coming to God along side of the faithful and yet in contrast he stands as an accuser of God's goodness toward Job.

and my favorite:
Job 38:4 - 7 "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Dido from above.

and of course we can't rule these out either:
Ps 82:6 "I said, "You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High."
Dido. Not unusual that the people of God carry this title. In fact, collectively, OT Israel was referred to by God on one occasion as His son, but again this was symbolic in reference to the True Son that would be called out of Egypt and unlike Israel in that verse, HE would obey and not sin.

Ps 89:6 "For who in the heavens can be compared to the Lord? Who among the sons of the mighty can be likened to the Lord?"
Perhaps this is where the ancient God myths came from. It appears some of Gods children were punished for what they did and they died for doing so. The Sons of God were considered Gods, Just like so many consider Jesus as a God, or God. But yet he is not the almighty God.
This last part is just itchy ear stuff.
 
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Sep 2, 2009
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1Covenant needless to say I disagree with you. I too have sit and listened to the explanation of the 'sons of God' from many sources throughout the years and no one has ever been able to show or prove that the 'sons' were anything but sons.

True, some say they are angels, but no where is there a connection ever given to them being angels. Angels have always been a separate entity from man. The only Angel who even comes close to having a description of being an offspring of God other than Jesus is Satan, being that he is called 'man' on different occasions. This is saying one of two things, that man has more than one meaning or that Satan is a brother to Jesus and also a son of God.

I for one stick to the phrase, it meaning, it message, and the translation of original text. All of which points to God having more than one son.

As for the bloodline of Cain vs Able, this is not doubt a matter of debate. None of which can be proven either way. However, there is suggestive information leading in your direction, but not necessarily fact because even Cain was called a son of Adam. That is important to know because Adam was first made man of God, not Satan. So I don't buy into that thought process.

While I understand what you're saying, I don't agree. God had a valid reason to express his sons existence to Job, if even to dismay the Triune God theory that he knew was forthcoming. No, I believe if God was talking about 'angels' he would have called them some other name besides sons as were all the angels called when they appeared before mankind.

Then I take this factor into consideration; Satan is trying to convince the world that he is God, if not now somehow, later for sure. The Antichrist being a spirit will use any method it can to keep people from seeing the truth. Disguising Gods other sons as angels is one of them, that way people fall for the Trinity or Triune God which is my full belief has come from Satan. By destroying all of Gods sons and Jesus through the Trinity, he has placed himself even above them. The only one next is God himself, and he won't appear again until after the Day of Judgment. So there doesn't seem to be anything in Satan's way right now, except people like me who refuse to succumb to belief without fact.
 
May 21, 2009
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Yes God died for me and you. First he was in heaven. Then he said Iwill go. Then he came here to be born a baby. So he could walk on the earth with people. To try and teach them. But a bunch still are listening. Then he gave his life on the cross for us. I feel like I'm in baby camp.
 
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1Covenant

Guest
True, some say they are angels, but no where is there a connection ever given to them being angels.
The understanding of the ancient time (the context), Nebuchadnezzar confesses that what he sees as a son of God is comparable to saying an angel, as he refers to the same person just two versus away. No one ever corrects him. This King who would have been highly educated of his time understands these terms to be interchangeable.

Angels have always been a separate entity from man. The only Angel who even comes close to having a description of being an offspring of God other than Jesus is Satan, being that he is called 'man' on different occasions. This is saying one of two things, that man has more than one meaning or that Satan is a brother to Jesus and also a son of God.
I'm not sure what you are saying. It is a little circular and illogical at the same time. It seems like you are saying that you have to be a man to be a son of God in you're quote above, yet at the same time in your other statements you seem to be implying that the sons of God are outside of mankind (Genesis) and still in this quote want to say that angels can't be sons of God because they are not men, except maybe Satan. Then you go off on Satan as a brother or a son of God.:confused:

What I'm saying, is that the term sons of God would apply to men and angels who are led by the Spirit of God and do His will (their identity). These are spiritual sons in a greater context of identity, not in specifics - as I pointed out earlier.

As for the bloodline of Cain vs Able, this is not doubt a matter of debate. None of which can be proven either way.
Unless you just read the whole account as one incident.
This is all the result of Genesis 3:15 and the antithesis that is presented that day and the hope of the promise which will result from all that struggle.
We have biblical language of the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman (or promise). This why you see all of the resulting language to begin with. There are sons of disobedience, Sons of God, sons of righteousness, sons of the resurrection, sons of the kingdom, children of the promise, sons of the most high, Children of the flesh, children of the bondwoman, children of the devil, children of light, and offspring of David. All of this language is wrapped up in the story of God's Word from the beginning. Where is your identity?
John 8:42-47 is a perfect example of what is in view here from the beginning. The promise and the antithesis.

However, there is suggestive information leading in your direction, but not necessarily fact because even Cain was called a son of Adam. That is important to know because Adam was first made man of God, not Satan. So I don't buy into that thought process.
I'm not sure what you are saying but I refer to my above statement. The terms of identity are what I am referring to, such as the sons of God, which again I believe scripture is conveying to those who are led by the Spirit of God and do His will. And how do we know who they are? They do His will. Laid out above is the great story of the promise of redemption through the promised victorious seed (son) of the woman (or of promise). This biblical struggle is seen in Cain vs Abel (replaced by Seth), Jacob and Esau, Isaac and Ishmael, Moses and Pharoah, and David and Goliath just to name a few. In each instance, one of them identifies with God and reflects the promise. This is the story all the way until the promised Seed Himself has come and stands toe to toe with those who are of the seed of their father the devil, who is that serpent of old. This is language for our benefit to see the gospel, not for our imaginations.
 
Sep 2, 2009
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I am aware of the conflicts of what I say verses what has been taught for may years. I have said all that I can say without repeating myself. We don't see eye to eye and it does not change either one our lives. You believe what you want to believe. I will do the same.
 
C

concernedguy

Guest
Actually Acts 20:28 says that the holy Spirit is the one that redeeemed us with His own blood, there is no mention of Jesus in this verse.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Jesus purchased the Church with His death and blood on the cross. When Jesus left the disciples after His
resurrection, Jesus said, "Wait till I sent the Holy Spirit and it comes upon you". The Holy Spirit is Jesus in spirit
form to guide us as His children.
 
T

Tegelik

Guest
I though this is such a topic, where there can't be any arguing.
Jesus is 100% God. Jesus died on the cross. I think God died and was alive at the same time. :D Jesus experienced life as a human, so He experienced, that God had forsaken Him on the cross, although Jesus was the same God on the cross.:eek: Why is it hard to understand, that NOTHING is impossible for God. Hallelujah!
 
Apr 23, 2009
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Originally Posted by watchmen

Actually Acts 20:28 says that the holy Spirit is the one that redeeemed us with His own blood, there is no mention of Jesus in this verse.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Jesus purchased the Church with His death and blood on the cross. When Jesus left the disciples after His
resurrection, Jesus said, "Wait till I sent the Holy Spirit and it comes upon you". The Holy Spirit is Jesus in spirit
form to guide us as His children.
I agree with your statement, what i do know is how your statement opposes my post that you referenced?
 
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Tegelik

Guest
I feel like I'm in baby camp.
lol. That reminds me an episode of The Simpsons, where Homer was in a catholic school and he wrote a crib on his hands: God=good. Devil=bad.
 
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BXblessings2you

Guest
How can "I AM" die...death is the end of something and is traced back to sin. God cannot sin and so cannot die, but flesh can die. In order to redeem us from our sins there had to be death, so God sacrificed Jesus The Son for us. To claim that the humanity of Jesus cannot be separated from His Divinity makes no sense. Jesus is closer to each of us than he was by the touch of a hand to any who walked alongside him because as God he has no boundaries. But if a hair fell from his head, is it the hair of God or the hair of man? The whole concept of who Jesus is can be confusing. But I think it is notable how Jesus is referred to as Son of God and Son of Man. God is Jesus and Jesus is God but at the same time Jesus is man too. Both must be true in order to fulfill the Word of God. Jesus as God cannot die because he is The Way (has always been The Way and always will be The Way). Jesus partook in the Creation, further proof that Jesus is God. But the overlooked question is if Jesus is God, how can he also be the Son of God? The word Son, would seem to mean something along the lines of coming into being. In our human relationships, children do not exist without their parents but the statement cannot be reversed. Since Jesus has always existed, this is not the case. Perhaps Son is reference to God coming into being Man, because although God becomes Man, He also still exists outside of man. Also, although Jesus has always existed, Jesus as Man has not, otherwise man would have always existed. The Bible makes mention of us not being able to see the form of God, because flesh is of this world and what is of this world can pass away---Jesus Himself is not of this world, God does not pass away (literally or figuratively:)).

This explanation goes in circles, and I do not presume to be correct...:confused:
 
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Pnyoomah

Guest
Nope, it was God's Son that died as a ransom for us! Not his Father, who alone is God. But hey, I dont want to get into the whole trinity debate, thats like flogging a dead horse!
 
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