Did God die on the cross.
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They would say Trinity. However if they would have said God died on the cross i still would not believe it, and even though they are Trinitarian and I respect them very much, I cannot go against what God has personally spoke into my heart. I will always take God's word over mans because Gods word is truth. On that same token, I will take these men's words over 1covenant and the like, especially when it lines up with what I already knew 
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Ok. Well that explains why you don't understand trinitarian theology and also why you don't see how it is based on scripture from the work of others throughout history. I mean - I'm sure you think oneness is more biblical - that's not what I'm saying but since some of this is new to you then you haven't read and seen the scripture proofs of historical writers. That is also the irony of it all, that as a mere man you read the Bible and are convinced of one thing and take no stock of what other men have read and been convinced of.
When instead we should rejoice in hard exchanges and study learned mean in context of Scripture so that as iron sharpens iron we may be, by God's grace and the work of the Holy Spirit, convinced of the truth.
So in the context of this last statement I hope that you can understand that to speak the truth in love also conversely means that to love means to speak the truth. I mean no personal insult in all of this but hope that we are both spurred on to perfecting our faith and the knowledge of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
When instead we should rejoice in hard exchanges and study learned mean in context of Scripture so that as iron sharpens iron we may be, by God's grace and the work of the Holy Spirit, convinced of the truth.
So in the context of this last statement I hope that you can understand that to speak the truth in love also conversely means that to love means to speak the truth. I mean no personal insult in all of this but hope that we are both spurred on to perfecting our faith and the knowledge of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
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LOL - I never said what I said because you disagree with it. I said it based on your own confession that you think what I said is new when it is an ancient belief of trinitarian theology.
And I could very well say the same thing which is why I choose to study as much as I can of the historical Christian understanding of my framework for putting the scriptures together.
And I could very well say the same thing which is why I choose to study as much as I can of the historical Christian understanding of my framework for putting the scriptures together.
The belief that God died on the cross is not a trinitarian belief any more than believe in tongues or not is trinitarian or non trinitarian, or whether the pre or post trib rapture beliefs are trinitarian beliefs. There would be trinitarians on both side of the issue as this poll proves. I am surprised that anyone believes God died on the crooss trinitarian or not. It is totally absurd to believe that the eternal Spirit that is God died, or that any portion of it.
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Every time you respond you show that you really don't understand trinitarian theology and I don't expect you to b/c you are oneness, but you think you do.
No one ever said that the eternal spirit of God died, but you can't help but plug in your belief system when you hear me say that God died on the cross. I can say it because while I believe specifically the divine second person of the trinity died I can say that God died on the cross for my sins with no problem. You have to stop applying your oneness theology to the trinitarian ideal if you are to understand that it makes sense to the trinitarian.
I couldn't attach the trinity shield which graphically shows the trinity theology (at least as best it can).
So just google "trinity shield."
No one ever said that the eternal spirit of God died, but you can't help but plug in your belief system when you hear me say that God died on the cross. I can say it because while I believe specifically the divine second person of the trinity died I can say that God died on the cross for my sins with no problem. You have to stop applying your oneness theology to the trinitarian ideal if you are to understand that it makes sense to the trinitarian.
I couldn't attach the trinity shield which graphically shows the trinity theology (at least as best it can).
So just google "trinity shield."
Every time you say this you show you do not know what you are talking about at all. I know the trinitarian belief as well as you. My pastor is trintiarian and does not believe God died on the cross. The belief that God died on the cross is not a trinitarian belief, it is not even a christian belief, it is definitely not a biblical belief. The fact that I know this, does not mean I do not understand the trinitarian teaching.
Not only does my pastor who is a trinitarian not believe God died on the cross, but my other spiritual leader who is trinitarian does not believe God died on the cross. Further more there is at least two die hard trinitarians I have debated with in the Oneness thread that do not believe God died on the cross. The belief that God died on the cross is in no way connected to the trinitarian concept. I have told you before I do not care what the creeds say or orthodoxy teaching. If it does not line up with scripture it is wrong. However just for kicks, I challenge you so quote one creed or early church father that says God died on the cross.
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You don't care...yet you say...
So what, you want to be argumentative?
I would note that if you cannot grasp the union of the Triune God you will likewise not grasp the complete union of God and man as laid out in this creed.
Nevertheless, for others' benefit I will quote the oldest creed that I have on hand in my library.
Athanasian Creed:
It would be too long to type it all, so I will type the pertinent part. The first part explaining essentially what you see on my avatar.
"Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of the substance of His mother, born in the world. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood. WHO although He is God and man, yet He is NOT two, but one Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, So God and man is one Christ. WHO suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead; He ascended into Heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty;......"
I'm going to bed now. Good night to all and to all a good night.
Have a blessed Lord's Day.
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So what, you want to be argumentative?
I would note that if you cannot grasp the union of the Triune God you will likewise not grasp the complete union of God and man as laid out in this creed.
Nevertheless, for others' benefit I will quote the oldest creed that I have on hand in my library.
Athanasian Creed:
It would be too long to type it all, so I will type the pertinent part. The first part explaining essentially what you see on my avatar.
"Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of the substance of His mother, born in the world. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood. WHO although He is God and man, yet He is NOT two, but one Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, So God and man is one Christ. WHO suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead; He ascended into Heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty;......"
I'm going to bed now. Good night to all and to all a good night.
Have a blessed Lord's Day.
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