Did Jesus consider himself God?

Nat345 · Sep 30, 2016

The English translation of the Greek Diaglott and the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures renders John 1:1 as "...and the word was a god."
The meaning shows power but relative to "God" the Creator.

John 20:31-" But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God."
Jesus is called the "son". -not a father or the father.

Jesus is not God but as the Bible teaches the Son of God.

Tintin · Sep 30, 2016

Nat345 said:

The New Word Translation isn't a translation, it's a hack job 'created' by Jehovah's Witness leaders who didn't know the first thing about biblical translation nor were interested in conveying the truth of God's Word.

UndoubtingThomas · Sep 30, 2016

williamjordan said:

What a beautiful and lengthy way to say "Yes" he did lol. In all seriousness, I did enjoy your explanation and the effort that went into it. I've read so many interpretations and I have gone down some wrong paths in finding my answers. You know I have read many of the responses 2 similar discussions and what it comes down to really is I do accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I do accept that he died for me so that my sins may be forgiven. I do accept the New Testament as the word of God through Jesus. But what I have yet to accept is how many consider the Old Testament to be history. I'm not asking for anyone to point me to scripture. It's just something I'm going to have to research and ask God for his guidance in the matter. Why I'm having so much trouble with that particular issue, I don't know I just having this gut feeling. Maybe it's because I spent a majority of my life believing otherwise and I just recently learned that so many people don't feel the same way. I think it was easier to accept that Santa Claus wasn't real ( I hope I didn't spoil that for anyone haha). Anyway it's clear to me that my understanding is flawed or at least out of sync and that I'm just going to have to go through the motions and come to a firm commitment before I attempt anymore scripture related threads.

UndoubtingThomas · Sep 30, 2016

Nat345 said:

So I am curious given your response, if you care to share, do you believe that it was Jesus's intent for us to worship Him as God?

OneFaith · Oct 1, 2016

UndoubtingThomas said:

I don't think so based on multiple references most specifically...

Matthew 27
45 From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land. 46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?” 47 When some of those standing there heard this, they said, “He is calling Elijah.”…

Now consider...
Deuteronomy 4
4 Now, Israel, hear the decrees and laws I am about to teach you. Follow them so that you may live and may go in and take possession of the land the Lord, the God of your ancestors, is giving you. 2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.

So God said, no one can change the law (add or subtract) and by law I am talking specifically about the 10 commandments (not all the sacrifice rules, slavery etc (for the sake of argument)) so if Jesus must obey God's law and he cannot change it, why do so many people think it has been changed? Given this what does the underlined say about any man made laws?

Please just use references from the Bible for reasoning. I am not arguing with it, I am simply looking for sound logic based on texts. For my understanding as well as for those that would like clarity.

In Matthew 28:17 the apostles worshipped Jesus, and He did not correct them, because they weren't wrong. Yet Jesus and angels sharply corrected people "Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only!"

UndoubtingThomas · Oct 1, 2016

OneFaith said:

Interesting. I'm wondering now what reason he had to not correct them but give others totally different direction. Any thoughts on that?

garee · Oct 1, 2016

Tintin said:

I understand He is our Kinsman Redeemer as the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world..He rested on the seventh as the eternal rest we do have in Christ.

He is neither a man or a Lamb.

God who is not a man as us, but is one Spirit identified in human terms as a Father and a Son. God has no beginning of Spirit or end of Spirit .

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Tintin · Oct 1, 2016

garee said:

Oh, really? What Bible have you been reading? If Jesus wasn't/isn't God, there's no good news. If Jesus wasn't a man on earth and still a man, there's no good news. The real question is, is there any good news?

garee · Oct 1, 2016

UndoubtingThomas said:

My two cents.

Before the resurrection Jesus the Christ resisted all forms of worship and would say when approached; "only God is good". He performed that to outwardly show God is not a man as us and neither is He served by human form as if he needed anything other than His Spirit working through His faith..

When he was brought into this world, the Son of mans corruptible body aged to show he did live in a body of death called the flesh. God had subjected the whole creation to corruption when man fell.

Which the flesh was typified as sinful in order to put away sin in the flesh.Flesh typified as sinful was necessary to show us .

Seeing it was formed from the dust and to dust it must return. I believe Christians simply do not know the anointing Holy Spirit, Christ, after the temporal flesh. Flesh give birth to flesh. Spirit gives birth to spirit . No spirit, no life of the flesh.

Joh 6:63 It is the "spirit that quickeneth"; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

God who is not a man as us came to outwardly demonstrate His spiritual work of pouring out His Spirit on flesh. Again the flesh profited for nothing.

Came in the flesh not is flesh. God is Spirit

1John 4:2 Hereby know ye "the Spirit of God": Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come "in the flesh" is of God:

Again came in the flesh but is not of the flesh. I would offer No man can serve two masters, the flesh and the Spirit.

Looking at Mathew 28 . They first worshiped the risen Savoir in verse 9 appearing in His new temporal form (not formed any rudiment of this world )And again they worshipped Christ when they saw him, but some doubted.

When he left he left instructions to the ones that did worship Him seeing he rejected worship while in the earthen body of death before the resurrection .he instructed them we know Christ no more after the flesh . He remains God as eternal Spirit and not a man as us.

2Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Tintin · Oct 1, 2016

You sound very confused about what you believe.

garee · Oct 1, 2016

Tintin said:

No one said our Savoir, Jesus is not the anointing Holy Spirit of God. Just that God is not a man as us . He came in the flesh but Spirit is not flesh. Flesh has a beginning (dust). God who is Spirit has none. He created dust and h20

Tintin · Oct 1, 2016

garee said:

Yes, they did. The Bible tells us that Jesus is not the same as Holy Spirit. And while it's true that God is Spirit, when God the Son (Jesus Christ) came to earth, He became man (limiting Himself as God) and dwelt among us and then died, rose and ascended back into Heaven in His new fully God/fully man body.

garee · Oct 1, 2016

Tintin said:

According to my own opinion or what the scriptures refers to as a private interpretation. Not at all. God is not a man as us.

2Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Ask yourself what does have known,........ now henceforth,......Know we Him no more means?

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

garee · Oct 1, 2016

Hi thanks for the reply.

I would offer from another perspective. The flesh is not the same as Spirit.

Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The spirit performs the workings of the body.No spirit no life.

But Jesus which does not mean the Son of man as if God was a man as us , means Savor.It is an attribute of God’s Holy Spirit.

One verse I was thinking of speaks of the work of our savior Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God working in the heart of the old testament saints to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteous of God.

1Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the “Spirit of Christ” which was in them did signify, when”it” testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

It was the suffering in the Spirit that profited .The flesh profited for nothing.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Yes he came in the flesh to outwardly demonstrate the spiritual work of pouring out His Spirit...... as if it was blood.

Again came in the flesh not remains is flesh, as a creation. The Spirit of God has no form. We walk by faith the unseen eternal.

1John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

wwjd_kilden · Oct 1, 2016

UndoubtingThomas said:

[h=3]Worthy Is the Lamb[/h][SUP]8 [/SUP]Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And have made us[SUP][d][/SUP] kings[SUP][e][/SUP] and priests to our God;
And we[SUP][f][/SUP] shall reign on the earth.”

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, [SUP]12 [/SUP]saying with a loud voice:
“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:
“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”[SUP][g][/SUP]

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four[SUP][h][/SUP] elders fell down and worshiped Him who lives forever and ever.[SUP][i]

[/SUP]

UndoubtingThomas · Oct 1, 2016

wwjd_kilden said:

Worthy Is the Lamb

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And have made us[SUP][d][/SUP] kings[SUP][e][/SUP] and priests to our God;
And we[SUP][f][/SUP] shall reign on the earth.”

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, [SUP]12 [/SUP]saying with a loud voice:
“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:
“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”[SUP][g][/SUP]

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four[SUP][h][/SUP] elders fell down and worshiped Him who lives forever and ever.[SUP][i]
[/SUP]

Please see what I underlined. I only have one GOD that I worship.

Tintin · Oct 1, 2016

We only worship one God. But He is ONE God in THREE persons.

UndoubtingThomas · Oct 1, 2016

Tintin said:

I keep looking at that passage and "have redeemed us to God by Your blood"

Seems to indicate to me they are talking about 2 different entities. Otherwise it would have said "And redeemed us to You by Your Blood". Also, they refer to Jesus as the Lamb but by using the word Him, it could mean they are referring to God.

Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!

I don't know how to turn the blue shading behind my words off now lol.

Tintin · Oct 1, 2016

God is the only one without sin. Jesus cannot sin. If Jesus was just a man, He would be a sinful 'saviour' and that's no saviour at all. God required a perfect sacrifice, so no human could atone for humanity's sins. But Jesus did. Therefore, Jesus Christ is God.

prodigal · Oct 1, 2016

john 17

[h=1]John 17King James Version (KJV)[/h]17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Did Jesus consider himself God?

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