Doctrine of Unconditional Election

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Paran

Active member
Feb 25, 2023
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So, you're saying that you can't refute those verses?
I refuted Calvinism in the last 20 posts.

and you posted this..

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


So, the inheritance is based on the Cross, and on being born again, but is separate from the walk of faith that occurs on Earth.
This is the same understanding as....>"will be conformed into the IMAGE of Christ"< as that happens after you die.
That is what is "predestined", and Calvin changed that into, "God predestined some to be chosen".
So, he totally changed verses to suit his demonic theology.

Your other verse, that is dealing with "The gift of Salvation", is understood as..

"Faith is counted as righteousness"....which has been done.
Proof?
The person is born again., as that is the PROOF that God has accepted their faith, already to give them the new birth.

The false teaching would be.

"if you hold unto your faith, you dont lose your salvation", as that person is trusting in FAITH, instead of trusting in Christ.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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You are a Calvinist saying that nonsense to me?

Get real rogerg.

Calvinism is a Theology that denies the Grace of God and the Cross of Christ, using bible verses.
As you know.
It does NOT deny the grace of God nor the Cross. Just the opposite in fact. It is built upon grace and the cross, demonstrating that you do not understand either. You, however, try to factor works into grace which turns salvation into law.

So, you're saying the Bible contradict itself? Really? Explain how?
 

Paran

Active member
Feb 25, 2023
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It does NOT deny the grace of God nor the Cross.

Calvin's demonic theology teaches that The Cross is not given to ...."Jesus said i came into the world to save SINNERS".

Calvin teaches that its not sinners, but just the "chosen by God".......which denies that Salvation is offered to everyone, through the Cross.
 

Paran

Active member
Feb 25, 2023
119
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So, you're saying the Bible contradict itself? Really? Explain how?

Salvation is a GIFT.

"The GIFT of Salvation".

Its given to all who by faith believe the Gospel. and this faith....."comes by hearing" the Gospel.

Faith in Christ, is a choice to believe.......being chosen.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,915
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I wonder if anyone ever rejected Paul's message? Did anyone ever reject the gospel of the grace of God?
Could this grace be resisted? Calvin says no, scripture says yes. I'm going with scripture over man.

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my
course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
Plenty reject Paul's message (or aspects of it). But that is not why I am replying to your post .:unsure:;):D

I like the verse you posted and may do a panel of it, so thank you! .:)
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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I refuted Calvinism in the last 20 posts.

and you posted this..

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


So, the inheritance is based on the Cross, and on being born again, but is separate from the walk of faith that occurs on Earth.
This is the same understanding as....>"will be conformed into the IMAGE of Christ"< as that happens after you die.
That is what is "predestined", and Calvin changed that into, "God predestined some to be chosen".
So, he totally changed verses to suit his demonic theology.

Your other verse, that is dealing with "The gift of Salvation", is understood as..

"Faith is counted as righteousness"....which has been done.
Proof?
The person is born again., as that is the PROOF that God has accepted their faith, already to give them the new birth.

The false teaching would be.

"if you hold unto your faith, you dont lose your salvation", as that person is trusting in FAITH, instead of trusting in Christ.
You need to include verses in your reply that corroborate your conclusions. Without that, it is difficult for me to know what you're referring to as they are just your assumptions.

No, the inheritance is to the spiritual children of Abraham by God. The cross brought the inheritance to fruition.

[Eph 1:11 KJV] 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

The only faith of value with righteousness to the Father is/was Christ's faith, not man's. Christ's faith pleased the Father and is imputed to those He has chosen to salvation giving to them His righteousness.

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Salvation is a GIFT.

"The GIFT of Salvation".

Its given to all who by faith believe the Gospel. and this faith....."comes by hearing" the Gospel.

Faith in Christ, is a choice to believe.......being chosen.
To have faith in Christ is NOT a choice it is a gift - it is NOT what saves.
Natural, unsaved man, of himself CANNNOT truly believe.
Our faith does not bring to us salvation. Our faith is a gift (or a fruit) from salvation - it comes as a result of becoming born again
from salvation.
[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
 

Paran

Active member
Feb 25, 2023
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Y being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Being predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ.

Calvin, the heretic, twisted that verse into.....Only the predestined will be saved.

Why did He do that? Its because Calvin could not understand that God knowing everything (Foreknowledge) is not the same as God causing everything.

Calvin's teaching subverts "foreknowledge" into "predestined".
That the lie of the DEVIL that is Calvinism.
Its demonic.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
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Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19

And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. In this discriminatory fashion God exhibits His Glory

Now Paul alludes to this scripture in his treatise on unconditional election in Rom 9:11-16

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

We learn that there is what Paul terms "the purpose of God according to election" This is a salvaic purpose,. its answering the seeming dilema as to why so many jews in national israel are being lost Rom 9:1-6

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Click to expand...​
Its from this background that Paul develops his treatise on the doctirne of unconditional election, or "the purpose of God according to election"

Now let us look at what Rom 9 tells us: By writer of godsonlygospel.com "election is just not fair.

Speaking of Jacob and Esau, the sons of Isaac and Rebecca, Paul the apostle states: "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works but of Him that calleth; It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" (Rom. 9:11-13). What a passage to confound the free willer! No wonder the Arminian minister prefers to conveniently shy away from this chapter in Romans and hide these things from his listeners. These verses show clearly that God made choice between Jacob and Esau before they were even born! God made choice between them as to which He would love and which He would hate. This was done, the Scriptures say, so that the purpose of God according to election might stand, an election which obviously could not have been based on any deeds, actual or foreseen, good or bad, that man had done or would do. The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, not by anything they have done, that none should boast. The good works they do were appointed, or prepared, for them to do and they were not elected because of any good works they were foreseen would do:​
I do differ with the author regarding his statement "The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, "

I believe the saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith, but Faith being the consequent of election by grace.

However the main point is, the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever, thats the Apostles point.

This treatise by Paul should forever eliminate the false idea that election is based upon anything foreseen in or of the sinner. Its totally unconditional ! Its totally of Sovereign prerogative !
Just curious, if you feel nothing we do or choose has any bearing, how do you know for certain, you are one of His elected?
 

Paran

Active member
Feb 25, 2023
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To have faith in Christ is NOT a choice it is a gift - it is NOT what saves.
,
Faith in Christ is not the Gift.

The Cross of CHRIST is the Gift, the Blood Atonement and the New Covenant, is the GIFT.... and if you have FAITH in Jesus on the Cross, (believing the GOSPEL).... then your "faith is counted as righteousness" and you are "Justified by faith".

God does give a measure of Faith to all people, but coming to FAITH in Christ is free will : BELIEVING.

Jesus said....>If you BELIEVE iN me........I give unto you eternal life, and you shall never perish".
 

Paran

Active member
Feb 25, 2023
119
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Just curious, if you feel nothing we do or choose has any bearing, how do you know for certain, you are one of His elected?

THat is the demonic beauty of the Cult of Calvinism.

They all believe that They, and their family and their friends and their Church, have to be the "elect".
But you.
Me.
All the other members here.......might not be the elect.
We might just be CHOSEN BY GOD (predestined before we are born) to go to HELL then the Lake of Fire and we have no CHOICE>

Sick, isnt it?
= vomit theology.

So, isn't that so CLEVER that these Calvinists are so certain that God chose them and their family , but maybe not you and your family.

What a horrible cult.
Its just hellish.

= Thank you : John Calvin
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Being predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ.

Calvin, the heretic, twisted that verse into.....Only the predestined will be saved.

Why did He do that? Its because Calvin could not understand that God knowing everything (Foreknowledge) is not the same as God causing everything.

Calvin's teaching subverts "foreknowledge" into "predestined".
That the lie of the DEVIL that is Calvinism.
Its demonic.
Wrong.
Don't worry about Calvin. Look at the verses below. Can you see the linkage established there?
He foreknew; He predestinated; He called; He justified; He glorified.


[Rom 8:29-30, 32-33 KJV]
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. ...
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth.

[Rom 9:11 KJV]
11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
[Rom 11:5 KJV]
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Faith in Christ is not the Gift.
Faith in Christ is a gift.

The Cross of CHRIST is the Gift, the Blood Atonement and the New Covenant, is the GIFT.... and if you have FAITH in Jesus on the Cross, (believing the GOSPEL).... then your "faith is counted as righteousness" and you are "Justified by faith".
You really need to include verses to back up your assumptions. I am not going to try to guess which ones you have in mind.

Salvation is the gift. The cross brought the gift to fruition.

[Eph 1:4-5, 11 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, ...
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

God does give a measure of Faith to all people, but coming to FAITH in Christ is free will : BELIEVING.
Wrong. God give THE MEASURE OF FAITH, not a measure of faith. THE MEASURE OF FAITH is the perception God gives to His elect
to be able assess the faithfulness of Christ - that Christ was perfectly faithful to the Father which successfully
completed the mission the Father gave to Christ - it is of Christ's faith, not ours.

[Rom 12:3 KJV] 3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Jesus said....>If you BELIEVE iN me........I give unto you eternal life, and you shall never perish".
True belief is the fruit of the Spirit given upon becoming born-again. It does not come of ourselves. If someone has it,
it is because the have become saved.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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THat is the demonic beauty of the Cult of Calvinism.

They all believe that They, and their family and their friends and their Church, have to be the "elect".
But you.
Me.
All the other members here.......might not be the elect.
We might just be CHOSEN BY GOD (predestined before we are born) to go to HELL then the Lake of Fire and we have no CHOICE>

Sick, isnt it?
= vomit theology.

So, isn't that so CLEVER that these Calvinists are so certain that God chose them and their family , but maybe not you and your family.

What a horrible cult.
Its just hellish.

= Thank you : John Calvin
Spoken by someone who cannot refute the verses set before him which demonstrates that he is wrong. Okay we're done here.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,073
525
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The Cross is God's Grace.

John 14:6 is God's Salvation

The "Gospel of the Grace of God" is : John 3:16-17

All of that is ANTI- Calvinism

God's Grace is "anti-Calvinism"

2 Corinthians 5:19 is "anti Calvinism"

"The GIFT of Salvation".....is "anti-Calvinism".

Jesus Himself is "anti-Calvinism".

Brightframe, have you ever noticed that if you ask a person like you......>"are you a Christian"......... you'll say...>"Yes, im a Calvinist".

See, you believe that Calvinism is Christianity.
The devil is very glad to hear it, as he used Calvin to trap you, and millions just like you.
Thats a fact.
You reject unconditional election of grace, you reject one of the basic doctrines of Salvation by Grace through Faith.
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
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Getting heated in here… Let’s all take a breath and have a laugh.
A4E4ACEF-2CEB-427D-ABE9-568C3506C1B6.jpeg
I’m a Calvinist but I always thought this was hilarious 😆
 

Flannery

Active member
Mar 20, 2023
270
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Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19

And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. In this discriminatory fashion God exhibits His Glory

Now Paul alludes to this scripture in his treatise on unconditional election in Rom 9:11-16

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

We learn that there is what Paul terms "the purpose of God according to election" This is a salvaic purpose,. its answering the seeming dilema as to why so many jews in national israel are being lost Rom 9:1-6

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,​
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.​
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:​
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;​
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.​
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:​
Click to expand...​
Its from this background that Paul develops his treatise on the doctirne of unconditional election, or "the purpose of God according to election"

Now let us look at what Rom 9 tells us: By writer of godsonlygospel.com "election is just not fair.

Speaking of Jacob and Esau, the sons of Isaac and Rebecca, Paul the apostle states: "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works but of Him that calleth; It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" (Rom. 9:11-13). What a passage to confound the free willer! No wonder the Arminian minister prefers to conveniently shy away from this chapter in Romans and hide these things from his listeners. These verses show clearly that God made choice between Jacob and Esau before they were even born! God made choice between them as to which He would love and which He would hate. This was done, the Scriptures say, so that the purpose of God according to election might stand, an election which obviously could not have been based on any deeds, actual or foreseen, good or bad, that man had done or would do. The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, not by anything they have done, that none should boast. The good works they do were appointed, or prepared, for them to do and they were not elected because of any good works they were foreseen would do:​
I do differ with the author regarding his statement "The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, "

I believe the saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith, but Faith being the consequent of election by grace.

However the main point is, the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever, thats the Apostles point.

This treatise by Paul should forever eliminate the false idea that election is based upon anything foreseen in or of the sinner. Its totally unconditional ! Its totally of Sovereign prerogative !
Fascinating doctrine, it refers to the status of Israel as a Kingdom, based on the vox papule's "election" (voice vote) that they wanted a King over them, "so that they could be like the other nations around them". That the nation stayed unique is reflected in the comparisons between the struggles between Jacob and Esau and those of Saul and David, and it's had many consequences for the Ancient State of Israel. That election is unconditional, however, is a religious matter, and it came specifically form the faith that Jesus Christ, while being of Kingly descent form Jesse and David, et al, was also the Messiah foretold by the ordained prophets, and that therefore when he died a sacrifice for his nation, the monarchial nature of the state also survived HIs time in the grave and his resurrection. Unconditional election is the predicate subject of European state crusader churches, including the Spanish, Anglican, and Roman confessions, also Greece. How do you reconcile that with your citizenship?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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Fascinating doctrine, it refers to the status of Israel as a Kingdom, based on the vox papule's "election" (voice vote) that they wanted a King over them, "so that they could be like the other nations around them". That the nation stayed unique is reflected in the comparisons between the struggles between Jacob and Esau and those of Saul and David, and it's had many consequences for the Ancient State of Israel. That election is unconditional, however, is a religious matter, and it came specifically form the faith that Jesus Christ, while being of Kingly descent form Jesse and David, et al, was also the Messiah foretold by the ordained prophets, and that therefore when he died a sacrifice for his nation, the monarchial nature of the state also survived HIs time in the grave and his resurrection. Unconditional election is the predicate subject of European state crusader churches, including the Spanish, Anglican, and Roman confessions, also Greece. How do you reconcile that with your citizenship?
This is a rabbit trail, please discuss what I presented. Do you understand it ?
 

Paran

Active member
Feb 25, 2023
119
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28
You reject unconditional election of grace, you reject one of the basic doctrines of Salvation by Grace through Faith.

You are one of those who apparently thinks that Calvin wrote the New Testament.
Let me assure you that He didnt even write a verse in it., tho, Calvinists believe that He is nearly equal to Christ.

The reality is, Calvin's theology is a deceived, demonic, subversive, assault against the Cross of Christ, and a complete rejection of God's Gift of Salvation.

Calvinism, is a "doctrine of devils".. Hebrews 13:9