I am very disappointed with this thread. But also very grateful for people who point out the WORST heresy and false teaching that we have in our society. Call it Word Faith, the Prosperity or Health and Wealth Gospel, or TV evangelists sucking money out of a Biblically illiterate population, we need to constantly preach and teach against this perversion, this theology that is about man, instead of God!!
Green, we could have easily discussed this topic Biblically (this is the Bible Discussion Forum) and learned from each other. Instead, you through in a human name, and the topic was lost, as you so rightly pointed out!
Personally, if you want to quote from some scholarly research and trained theologians, I might not have minded. But the minute a popular TV preacher or teacher's name comes up, I am in defensive mode from the beginning. I have NEVER read a word of Joyce Meyers, maybe that was a spirit of revelation for me.
I got caught up in the Word Faith movement through a friend back in the early 1980's, who became a minister ordained by Kenneth Copeland after studying with him for a "diploma" for which she paid $3000. She gave me all the books, and I was a young Christian. I came to the conclusion it was heresy, perhaps because of that same "spirit of revelation." Of course, now, I can quote scripture and the Greek to prove what made me so uneasy in those early years.
And I may have said this before, but that same friend got diagnosed with breast cancer, refused treatment because she "claimed" she was healed, and died 10 months later when the cancer metastasized through her whole body. End of that sad story. She lost the real gospel of Jesus Christ.
As for this blasphemy about Jesus going into hell, it is theologically absurd. Jesus did NOT have to go to hell ever. The punishment for sin was the beatings and his death on the cross. That was the plan and it happened. Why would God have to ever go to hell? If you thought about it for just ONE MINUTE, you would realize that there was no trip to hell and no scriptural support for it.
I keep looking for one scripture from Joyce proving this absurd heresy, and no one is posting. I actually do know where the error started.
"(In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth?" Eph. 4:9
This means that Jesus was in heaven before the incarnation, and came to earth during his incarnation! So many have wrongly interpreted this to say, he descended to hell. Now the KJV says "lower parts of the earth," but that is NOT a good reading of the Greek. Actually, this is a foundational doctrine of the Catholic Church, but that would not surprise me, since Jerome had a poor knowledge of Greek, and he is the one who translated the Greek into Latin in the Vulgate, and sadly, the KJV mostly used this version, or Erasumus' version, which the Catholic Church would not approve any changes based on the Greek that countered established Catholic doctrine.
Not to criticize Catholics, but rather to recognize that the practice of putting the traditions of men before the TRUE word of God have been around forever! (Notice I use men, since I don't think there were many women involved in formulating doctrine or translating the Bible in the past history of the church!) (Hmm, maybe a topic for my doctoral dissertation?? LOL)
And I just read a Catholic tract on-line on this topic, and every single scripture used to support this doctrine is completely translated wrong!! Amazing what people will do to support a doctrine that is totally false.
I think Zone's issue was - can you trust a teacher who has bad doctrine and is aligned with a movement that is total heresy? She looked at the specifics, I would like to talk about the bigger picture.
"He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it." Titus 1:9
"If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, [SUP]4 [/SUP]he is puffed up with conceit andunderstands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain." 1 Tim 6:2-5
I see so much about people not showing LOVE to one another. But in the face of lies about the Bible, twisting scriptures, is it not the more loving approach to correct people, showing them the truth of God in the word?
Is it not hating someone to let them continue to walk in lies and hearsay, and unable to progress in their spiritual walk with God, because they have believed in so many things which imperil their sanctification?
Over and over in this forum, we have people coming in and preaching and teaching things which are the words of men, false teachings, and when someone tries to show them the truth, they are unable to answer back, except with vague generalities, or verses out of context or mistranslated Bible versions.
In Baptist Seminary, we were taught to read and study the Bible. We also studied ALL the theologians and various heresies. Then we were urged to pray, the seek God and to find the truth of God. But we knew all the sides of the debate, we knew the Bible. I find it amazing that I come here and I do find many believing sound doctrine, even though they come from totally different denominations from me. Because the truth is there. God does not leave his people without a clear revelation of his truth.
But sadly, I find groups of people lost in heresies, most of which are recent inventions, and they have never even considered the other side, or known there was another perspective, because they have not looked farther than Youtube, and trashy publications of tele-evangelists.
When you believe a lie, you will never be free.
Jesus said, "and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” Jon 8:32.
My prayer is that people will read all sides of an issue. I pray that they will come to know sound doctrine and reject the lies that are so overwhelming in our western church. And there are a multitude right now!
