Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

[PeterJens]

It is stated on fact with the scriptures. Go to my thread on Hebrews-Revelation is not written to the Body of Christ.

Good grief. All the letters are written as encouragements to believers.
They are not evangelistic tracts but talk about how we know God and how we
walk with Him.

Take Peter

In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
1 Peter 1:3

Now you could take it lots of different ways and say the audience knew of Christ,
but mainly they are converted Jews of the synagogues, who need encouragement
in Christ.

But you want to believe what you do, so you weave meaning into something that
is not there.

 

[FranC]

Let's see...
You joined this forum on April 30th, 2016.
You are 45 years old.
Have made 333 posts.
And a reputation value of 8.

When you put all that together, do you know what it means.

It means, YOU BRAINS ON FIRE"!.

LOL
You're funny.
And that's only because I had to leave for months!!!
Umm. Yeah. I'm humble!!

Fran

 

[FranC]

What?
Are you serious?

Tongue in cheek!!
I doubt LaurenTM believes in subjective morality!!

Fran

 

[PeterJens]

I have a few threads I have made. You can search my profile and find them. I've posted lots of videos as well. I'll post one here too if your interested. It's a video that explains the apostle Paul and what his purpose is. What rightly dividing the word of truth is and what the revelation of the mystery is given to Paul. Rom 16.25, Eph 3.37, 1 Cor 2.6-8, Col 1.25-26, Gal 1.11-12, Eph 3.9-10. God says that if the mystery was revealed before Paul, Christ would not have been crucified. Since that is true, the body of Christ cannot be found before Paul.

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Christ died for one simple reason, he was challenging the sanhedrin and how they
ran Israel. There power came from the temple, and He was the temple.

Christ called them white washed tombs, dead and empty inside, and their teaching
was flawed with hypocracy and sin.

All they cared about was stopping a revolution against Rome, and keeping power
and wealth. Truth never had anything to do with the power struggle.

Either Jesus was true and would conquer, or he would die and never come back.
They gambled one way, and lost, and also lost the war with Rome because of
Caligula.

 

[Chester]

It is stated on fact with the scriptures. Go to my thread on Hebrews-Revelation is not written to the Body of Christ.

It is not stated as a fact in James? What gospel did you get if from?

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

Christ died for one simple reason, he was challenging the sanhedrin and how they
ran Israel. There power came from the temple, and He was the temple.

Christ called them white washed tombs, dead and empty inside, and their teaching
was flawed with hypocracy and sin.

All they cared about was stopping a revolution against Rome, and keeping power
and wealth. Truth never had anything to do with the power struggle.

Either Jesus was true and would conquer, or he would die and never come back.
They gambled one way, and lost, and also lost the war with Rome because of
Caligula.

What about that mystery about Christ's death that wasn't revealed???? Don't want to address that do you because you don't know what it's talking about. Just admit it.

 

[John146]

absolutely nothing will support that post...and you know that

this guy is tearing up the forums with this stuff and he is serious about it

What about James 1:1, James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Whenever the term "twelve tribes" is used in Scripture, it is always a reference to the whole nation of Israel. To use "twelve tribes" in reference to just Jewish Christians, one would have to contradict every other usage in Scripture. I'm not willing to do that. Let the word be honest to you.

 

[stonesoffire]

Objective morality is the perspective that there are things about the universe that make certain morals claims true or false. An objectivist would state that the way the world is makes murder an objectively wrong thing to do. ... Subjective morality is the perspective that moral claims don't really have a truth value.

The Jews have laws of purity. Unfortunately, laws don't change anything.

However, a new nature?

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

The menorrha (sp) of Judaism is 6 branches of Spirit truth that comes from the base, the fear of the Lord.

NT in my thought...has love at the base, since fear is overcome now from our stance in Christ.

1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Morality and virtue...which tree shall we pick fruit from?

 

[LaurenTM]

What about James 1:1, James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Whenever the term "twelve tribes" is used in Scripture, it is always a reference to the whole nation of Israel. To use "twelve tribes" in reference to just Jewish Christians, one would have to contradict every other usage in Scripture. I'm not willing to do that. Let the word be honest to you.

well you agree with him and have from the get go

let us not play games

and what are the 12 tribes? wildebeast?

so only they shall be left after the not going to happen pre-tribulation holocaust?

honestly you folks scare me with your lack of understanding and total subjective application

 

[John146]

well you agree with him and have from the get go

let us not play games

and what are the 12 tribes? wildebeest?

so only they shall be left after the not going to happen pre-tribulation holocaust?

honestly you folks scare me with your lack of understanding and total subjective application

Please post Scripture proving that the term "twelve tribes" refers to the called out Christians in the nation of Israel.

 

[PeterJens]

What about that mystery about Christ's death that wasn't revealed???? Don't want to address that do you because you don't know what it's talking about. Just admit it.

This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
Eph 3:6

There are no more mysteries other than why you do not understand
scripture, but then maybe there is something amiss with your understanding
of God and faith.

 

[MattTooFor]

Of course people can be deceived. We see it in the works-based salvationists mindset which is religion.

It's interesting the way you shift away from the actual question. The question was whether you agree with the Bible when it says people who are fornicators and idolaters (etc) are deceived about their salvation status.

You weirdly pretend I was asking a question about "deception" in general and then proceed once more to trot out this name-calling. I find it also interesting the way you think you're hiding a kind of stinkiness and unpleasantness behind what you think is an impervious facade of "godly graciousness". Good grief.

living by faith in the grace of God will manifest the life of Christ to reflect what is in us in our new creation in Christ.

Well...you're playing a kind of 'word game' or something because...that is exactly what I am saying, except you're claiming I'm NOT saying it - lol. If we have true and genuine "faith in the grace of God" [your words]...it will then "manifest the life of Christ" [your words again]...i.e. a life of holiness and righteousness...which is why Paul says those who don't do such and live a life of si...are deluded if they think they're real believers.


So those who do NOT "manifest the life of Christ" are those who have NOT placed a genuine "faith in the grace of God".


So...what in the world are you arguing about?

 

[Grace777x70]

It's interesting the way you shift away from the actual question. The question was whether you agree with the Bible when it says people who are fornicators and idolaters (etc) are deceived about their salvation status.

You weirdly pretend I was asking a question about "deception" in general and then proceed once more to trot out this name-calling. I find it also interesting the way you think you're hiding a kind of stinkiness and unpleasantness behind what you think is an impervious facade of "godly graciousness". Good grief.


Well...you're playing a kind of 'word game' or something because...that is exactly what I am saying, except you're claiming I'm NOT saying it - lol. If we have true and genuine "faith in the grace of God" [your words]...it will then "manifest the life of Christ" [your words again]...i.e. a life of holiness and righteousness...which is why Paul says those who don't do such and live a life of si...are deluded if they think they're real believers.


So those who do NOT "manifest the life of Christ" are those who have NOT placed a genuine "faith in the grace of God".


So...what in the world are you arguing about?

I have no idea where you are getting all this from as I didn't call anyone any names. I say that works-based salvationists believe a certain way. If people are not believing that way - they will not be offended - if they do think that way - then they can do what they will with what I said.

I am not claiming anyone is saying anything - I am simply giving my views of the fruit of the grace of God in the lives of people when they are fed Christ and not religion.

I just answered your question - if you don't like the answer - that's cool.

I have absolutely no interest in your malice in your perceptions of what you said here in this statement by you towards myself: "I find it also interesting the way you think you're hiding a kind of stinkiness and unpleasantness behind what you think is an impervious facade of "godly graciousness".

If you are not going to show any respect for people - then I'm not having any interaction with people that exhibit this type of behavior.


I will give my response again and whether you agree with it or not is not relevant.

Here is my response - if it doesn't pass your requirements then maybe it'll help someone else out.....All is well....

Of course people can be deceived. We see it in the works-based salvationists mindset which is religion. Religion is anything that replaces the grace and life of God which has been fulfilled by Christ and trying to accomplish it by our own self-efforts what Christ has already done in His finished work.

Being a doer of the word is living by faith in the grace of God shown in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

I have always said it and will continue saying it - living by faith in the grace of God will manifest the life of Christ to reflect what is in us in our new creation in Christ.

Good works born from the Spirit of God within us will be a fruit of His life in us. He is the Vine - the root - but works/fruit does not create the "root". This is where works-based salvationists get the gospel backwards but God is changing all that for all of us as He is revealing His Son's perfect work for us.

I always get excited and full of joy when I get to talk about what the Lord has done for us in His great love and grace towards us.

 

[gb9]

I have no idea where you are getting all this from as I didn't call anyone any names. I say that works-based salvationists believe a certain way. If people are not believing that way - they will not be offended - if they do think that way - then they can do what they will with what I said.

I just answered your question - if you don't like the answer - that's cool.

I have absolutely no interest in your malice in your perceptions of what you said here in this statement by you towards myself: " I find it also interesting the way you think you're hiding a kind of stinkiness and unpleasantness behind what you think is an impervious facade of "godly graciousness".

If you are not going to show any respect for people - then I'm not having any interaction with people that exhibit this type of behavior.

I will give my response again and whether you agree with it or not is not relevant.

Here is my response - if it doesn't pass your requirements then maybe it'll help someone else out.....All is well....

Of course people can be deceived. We see it in the works-based salvationists mindset which is religion. Religion is anything that replaces the grace and life of God which has been fulfilled by Christ and trying to accomplish it by our own self-efforts what Christ has already done in His finished work.

Being a doer of the word is living by faith in the grace of God shown in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

I have always said it and will continue saying it - living by faith in the grace of God will manifest the life of Christ to reflect what is in us in our new creation in Christ.

Good works born from the Spirit of God within us will be a fruit of His life in us. He is the Vine - the root - but works/fruit does not create the "root". This is where works-based salvationists get the gospel backwards but God is changing all that for all of us as He is revealing His Son's perfect work for us.

I always get excited and full of joy when I get to talk about what the Lord has done for us in His great love and grace towards us.

funny how we get excited about God's grace and love for us, and others get upset when it gets mentioned.

 

[Grace777x70]

funny how we get excited about God's grace and love for us, and others get upset when it gets mentioned.

Sometimes it is just best not to interact with these types that exhibit this type of behavior as their purpose is not from the Lord. I'm definitely not engaging in people that continually have malice and dis-respect for others that speak about the great salvation we have in our loving Father and Lord.

It's ok to disagree but once they start this malice-filled nonsense - I have learned to avoid them and ignore them. It works wonders and brings peace.

 

[PeterJens]

So...what in the world are you arguing about?

It appears to be victory through hypocracy.

Jesus's point was this

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:20

Now the interpretation of this verse is the Pharisees were able to follow the law
yet failed so no one could be better than them at being righteous.

But listen to Jesus again

So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Matt 23:3

So these hypocrites appear righteous, but do not follow the essence of the
law, love, truth, forgiveness, faithfulness.

Notice a theology of hypocracy is exactly the same as these teachers.

 

[PeterJens]

funny how we get excited about God's grace and love for us, and others get upset when it gets mentioned.

As believers and followers of Christ we rejoice with all who delight in Christ and His
love expressed through the cross.

As brothers and sisters in Christ we rejoice in our Lord.
Yet a divide is created with attempts at rejection, while the group who claim
spiritual reality insist they are truly trusting Christ and their targets are
flesh living, anti-Christs, called immature christians, or wolves who can
become sheep. Such ideas are so odd and distorted, the worldly would
never see the difference.

But this language is designed to annoy and inflame, thereby creating the
impression they are truly spiritual, while the followers of Christ look
legalistic and proud. A neat trick, but for the elect irrelevant.

But only a wolf would truly try this behaviour, test the humbleness
of the followers of Christ, and attack their very faith Christ.

 

[phil36]

As believers and followers of Christ we rejoice with all who delight in Christ and His
love expressed through the cross.

As brothers and sisters in Christ we rejoice in our Lord.
Yet a divide is created with attempts at rejection, while the group who claim
spiritual reality insist they are truly trusting Christ and their targets are
flesh living, anti-Christs, called immature christians, or wolves who can
become sheep. Such ideas are so odd and distorted, the worldly would
never see the difference.

But this language is designed to annoy and inflame, thereby creating the
impression they are truly spiritual, while the followers of Christ look
legalistic and proud. A neat trick, but for the elect irrelevant.

But only a wolf would truly try this behaviour, test the humbleness
of the followers of Christ, and attack their very faith Christ.

Hi Peter,

I am not sure if you are aware but you do come across as if you are the holiest one and everyone else is a wolf. I do have to point out though that you never answer questions... you just come off with I am Holy and you are a wolf (in sheep clothing, (not wolves become sheep)).

 

[gb9]

As believers and followers of Christ we rejoice with all who delight in Christ and His
love expressed through the cross.

As brothers and sisters in Christ we rejoice in our Lord.
Yet a divide is created with attempts at rejection, while the group who claim
spiritual reality insist they are truly trusting Christ and their targets are
flesh living, anti-Christs, called immature christians, or wolves who can
become sheep. Such ideas are so odd and distorted, the worldly would
never see the difference.

But this language is designed to annoy and inflame, thereby creating the
impression they are truly spiritual, while the followers of Christ look
legalistic and proud. A neat trick, but for the elect irrelevant.

But only a wolf would truly try this behaviour, test the humbleness
of the followers of Christ, and attack their very faith Christ.

in paragraph 3, peter loosely refers to himself as " elect ". then he speaks of humility, then wonders why he gets attacked. someone else want to try to explain this to him??

 

[Grace777x70]

I find it very telling that some of those that say we are to live godly lives in Christ ( which I agree with 100% ) are the every ones filled with malice and slander towards others in the body of Christ.

Malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ is no different then living a homosexual lifestyle - they are in the same list of the works of the flesh. They all bring destruction to ourselves and those around us.

It's ok to agree to disagree with others but once dis-respect and malice becomes the way they attack others - things change. These types are best to be ignored and it's best not to interact with them as they are just creating strife and division. Paul tells us what to do in these situations.

Romans 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.


When we see repentance and respectful behavior come into being - that will be the time to interact with them again. In the meantime - I encourage us to guard our hearts and minds.

Unfortunately I have had to do this very thing with a few and it has been a major blessing and makes this on-line experience with the other brethren so much better.