Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

[Grace777x70]

Grace,
I watched the video.
What's interesting is that you said you didn't know the term "sin nature" when I spoke about it a few posts back.
The man in the video even said the words "sinful nature"!

He's calling it the flesh.
But we're not discussing the sin nature, or flesh, or whatever else you want to call it.
It's the evil within man that makes him tend toward doing evil instead of doing good.
Man is born with this tendency as a result the fall of man. SIN.
Sinning is what you do every day when you let God down. OK? Are you convinced I know the difference between the noun and the verb? Give me some credit!!

There are three positions regarding the sin nature, BTW,
I'm not going to do this here, but I'll say that I DO understand your position regardin our being a new man and having a new nature.

This doesn't mean I agree wth it. I believe the sin nature stays with us thourghout our life but it is put under submission when we become born again so that e TEND TO DO GOOD instead of bad.

You'd still have to explain WHY we still sin (commit sins) IF we have an entirely New Nature. You could say it's because we're in the "flesh", whatever you want to call it, flesh, sin nature, etc., WE ARE STILL SINNING. This is problematic.
But we're not here to disccuss that.

I think that's all I want to say. We could take verses one by one, but I don't see the point.

I do find it difficult to understand why the meaning of, say Colossians is not accepted by you.

Colossians 1:21-23 New International Version (NIV)

21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[a] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

The above has the complete salvation message.

1. You were alienated from God.
2. But now God has reconciled you through Christ.
3. To present you holy, without blemish and free from accusation in God's sight.
4. IF YOU CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, and do NOT MOVE from the hope held out in the gospel.

It seems so plain.

Fran

The term "sin nature" is not in the scriptures - it is man-made and it was actually coined by the makers of the NIV version of the bible. They have since changed that in the newer version of the NIV to reflect what the true Greek actually says.

The man in the video used the term because this is how most church people were erroneously taught that it was called the "sin nature." Sometimes to try to rectify some terms it's like a sacred cow getting sacrificed and people get all up in arms about things.

No, Fran, you still do not know what the difference between "sin" the noun and "sinning" the verb in reference to Romans 6 and 7. Sin used in Romans 6 & 7 and sinning are different things although "sinning" does stem from yielding to the deceitfulness of "sin" that is in the flesh. Have you read that link I posted about it yet?

Now as far as Col. 1:21-23 goes. I have written this many times in the past but I will do it again for new people that are wondering about this scripture. This scripture is an exciting one that actually talks about the security of the believer in Christ.

Our hope is certain in Christ because being in the faith is determined as fulfilled.

There are a lot of times in the original Greek the "if" is actually a statement of it is determined as fulfilled.....

It is called "a condition of the first class"..... Colossians 1:23 is a prime example as the Greek scholar A. T. Roberston points out:

Colossians 1:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


If so be that ye continue in the faith (ei ge epimenete tēi pistei).

Condition of the first class (determined as fulfilled),

Word Pictures in the New Testament. A. T. Robertson Greek Scholar


Sort of like this....you have gone to the bank....and I say to you.... "If" you went to the bank ( determined as already fulfilled )...get me $100 bucks.

I'll take a check too...

 

[FranC]

All believers believe in Christ in their hearts - as I said - they may get their minds all screwed up from false teaching like this demonic one that the Lord forsakes you and leaves you.

The Lord doesn't forsake you and leave you. YOU forsake him and leave Him. Please don't change my words since the two versions are TOTALLY DIFFERENT. I NEVER said Jesus Leaves YOU.
Could you explain this in a simple way then. I realize that the OSAS crowd explain away every verse it doesn't like, but I'd like to hear your explanation:
2 Timothy 2:11-13

We've already discussed the word "deny" so unless you could post some support for your position that it DOES NOT mean DENY,
let's please take it at face value and understand that DENY means DENY.


Of course all those that have not been born-again will not "make it" as you say.

None of those verses say a believer that has been saved by grace through faith ever goes to hell. They will not experience the life that can be ours in this earth if we do not hold onto the promises of God with patience and thus see them come to manifest in our lives.

Grace, in all my discussion I'm NEVER speaking about people who are not born again. They're lost. I'm Always speaking about people who were lost, are saved, and then lose their salvation.

In my post no. 399 I gave you the perfect scripture for this: Colossians 1:21-23
Perhaps you could explain these verses to us? They seem plain enough.

Just look up in the Greek saved by grace in Eph. 2:8 and you will see that it is a done deal - in a completed state with has continuous results in the present . It is called the perfect tense in the Greek - there is no equal to it in English. When a Greek person heard that tense being used - they knew exactly what that meant.

Jesus used the perfect tense in "It is finished".

I suppose we could use our human reasoning and say "What if Jesus didn't really mean it was finished - maybe it is only half finished? Maybe He meant it is finished only if we help Him to save us?

Whenever we use our own human reasoning to try to take away the plain text - we will nullify the very grace of God needed to manifest His life in us.

Yes. Using our own reasoning is very Dangerous. That's why I like to stick to the bible. I don't even have to know Greek! When Jesus said it is finished, He meant IT IS FINISHED. When you talk about Ephesians, it means what it says. I never said differently. But you seem to leave out all the many verses that IMPLORE us to HOLD ON to our faith, to not fall away, all the BUT'S and IF'S that are found throughout the N.T.

Fran - I think this is a complete waste of time - you would have much better luck trying to convince me that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation then to try to convince me that Jesus did not speak the truth and that He would never leave us nor forsake us. That the Holy Spirit will be in us forever. I'm a believer. I have repented and I believe the gospel just like Jesus said to do in Mark 1:15.

I've said that I'm not here for YOU. I'm here for those who are reading along. They cannot hear only your version of the scriptures. It's necessary for them to hear the truth. You say you like Mark1:15. So do I. It says to repent because the Kingdom of God is at hand and to believe in the gospel. Ah. but WHICH gospel? The one that says you believe one time in your life and you're saved forever no matter what, or the correct one which says you must be born again and implores us to hold on to that belief and faith? Anyone just reading the bible without watching videos will come to the conclusion that salvation can indeed be lost. But it is entirely OUR decision to leave God.

It is with the heart that man believes and has been created in righteousness and holiness. We are joined as one spirit with the Lord. Isaiah said ' And He shall bring in everlasting righteousness". And again "In righteousness you will be established."

"In righteousness we are establised". Right. But those who abandon God and leave Him no longer have His righteousness.

One last thing. For someone who is not a legalist you sure do mention hell a lot. If you've noticed I never do. Only if I'm absolutely forced. That's because I believe in the Grace and Love God has for us.

Fran

 

[notuptome]

"In righteousness we are establised". Right. But those who abandon God and leave Him no longer have His righteousness.

One last thing. For someone who is not a legalist you sure do mention hell a lot. If you've noticed I never do. Only if I'm absolutely forced. That's because I believe in the Grace and Love God has for us.

Fran

It would be easier by far to abandon the planet earth than to abandon God.

Jesus taught more about hell than He taught about heaven.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Grace777x70]

"In righteousness we are establised". Right. But those who abandon God and leave Him no longer have His righteousness.

One last thing. For someone who is not a legalist you sure do mention hell a lot. If you've noticed I never do. Only if I'm absolutely forced. That's because I believe in the Grace and Love God has for us.

Fran

You say that you do not mention that people go to hell if they have lost faith in any area or abandoned God - whatever that means in one's mind as it can mean different things to different people.

Then when these people that "supposedly" lose their salvation which is totally based on Christ Himself which you seem so sure that it is true - what happens to them? Do they go to a purgatory somewhere? Where do they go in your opinion if they somehow or other "un-born" themselves from Christ?

 

[FranC]

?? How can you throw away a gift, You can try to hide it, but you can not destroy it. It is still yours. What you do with it, that is up to you, but it is still yours.

You've never thrown away a Christmas or birthday gift??
Incredible!

 

[FranC]

Perhaps you should examine the difference between salvation by grace and sanctification. Paul said he had a life long struggle against what his old nature wanted to do and what his new nature in Christ wanted to do.

Romans 7:14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Sanctification is a life long process. It has it's ups and downs but it is concluded when we die and are glorified together with our Savior who is Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You know, just because a person is new to this forum, DOES NOT mean that they don't know Christian doctrine.

Now, since the new ones here are so ignorant, would you please explain, in your own words, the difference
between salvation by Grace and sanctification.

Yes. Enlighten us all, please.

Fran

 

[FranC]

The term "sin nature" is not in the scriptures - it is man-made and it was actually coined by the makers of the NIV version of the bible. They have since changed that in the newer version of the NIV to reflect what the true Greek actually says.

The man in the video used the term because this is how most church people were erroneously taught that it was called the "sin nature." Sometimes to try to rectify some terms it's like a sacred cow getting sacrificed and people get all up in arms about things.

No, Fran, you still do not know what the difference between "sin" the noun and "sinning" the verb in reference to Romans 6 and 7. Sin used in Romans 6 & 7 and sinning are different things although "sinning" does stem from yielding to the deceitfulness of "sin" that is in the flesh. Have you read that link I posted about it yet?

Now as far as Col. 1:21-23 goes. I have written this many times in the past but I will do it again for new people that are wondering about this scripture. This scripture is an exciting one that actually talks about the security of the believer in Christ.

Our hope is certain in Christ because being in the faith is determined as fulfilled.

There are a lot of times in the original Greek the "if" is actually a statement of it is determined as fulfilled.....

It is called "a condition of the first class"..... Colossians 1:23 is a prime example as the Greek scholar A. T. Roberston points out:

Colossians 1:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


If so be that ye continue in the faith (ei ge epimenete tēi pistei).

Condition of the first class (determined as fulfilled),

Word Pictures in the New Testament. A. T. Robertson Greek Scholar


Sort of like this....you have gone to the bank....and I say to you.... "If" you went to the bank ( determined as already fulfilled )...get me $100 bucks.

I'll take a check too...

Grace,

1. First of all, could you please enlighten me and explain what the difference is between sin and sinning.

I shudder to think of all the poor folk that have learned incorrectly from me!

2. Terms. I've given you a list of about 10 words (and I have more) that could be also understood as sin nature. I've said that we still have one, WHATEVER you want to call it. THIS has nothing to do whith losing one's salvation.

3. The word TRINITY is not in the bible. Does it not exist?
Ditto for Sin Nature.

4. When scripture does not suit the OSAS side of the isle, they Always go to the Greek.

Colossians 1:21-23

Maybe you could go to the Greek and explain what the word CONTINUES means? Since we now know that IF does not mean IF.

Colossians 1:21-23New International Version (NIV)

21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[a] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Here's what it means:

verse 21. At one time we were enemies of God. We were hostile to Him in our minds and in our hearts and in our actions. We did mean and bad and evil things. We did NOT KNOW God.

verse 22. Now, by giving Himself totally, bodily, at the cross, and actually dying for you. So that you could be presented to God, the Father, holy and blameless and Beyond reproach.

verse 23: All this IF indeed you CONTINUE in that bond of faith which Jesus establised in you. Do not move away from the hope of the message, the hope of salvation, the message which, I Paul, have brought to you. Do not be DISTRACTED OR DIVERTED from the message that was announced to all creation and of which I am a minister and have declared to you.

Paul is saying to CONTINUE in the FAITH and hold on to the gospel message.
Any other understanding is totally fabricated.

Fran

 

[FranC]

You say that you do not mention that people go to hell if they have lost faith in any area or abandoned God - whatever that means in one's mind as it can mean different things to different people.

Then when these people that "supposedly" lose their salvation which is totally based on Christ Himself which you seem so sure that it is true - what happens to them? Do they go to a purgatory somewhere? Where do they go in your opinion if they somehow or other "un-born" themselves from Christ?

Hi Grace,

First of all we Protestants don't believe in purgatory, right? Do you?

It seems to me that everyone undersands what the word ABANDON means.
I feel that everyone here has a reading level sufficient to understand what it means to ABANDON GOD.

As to where they go... I leave that to God. I'm not here to condemn anyone because I'd only be condemning myself.

What I AM here to do is to warn people to HOLD ON TO JESUS throughout their lives.
Not to give up NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS. I've seen this often.
TO HANG ON TO JESUS FOR THEIR LIFE. Because that's what the N.T. exhorts us to do.

Fran

 

[FranC]

It would be easier by far to abandon the planet earth than to abandon God.

Jesus taught more about hell than He taught about heaven.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

There ya go again!
Talkin' about hell!

But then not warning people how NOT TO GO THERE.

Interesting.

Fran

 

[notuptome]

You know, just because a person is new to this forum, DOES NOT mean that they don't know Christian doctrine.

Now, since the new ones here are so ignorant, would you please explain, in your own words, the difference
between salvation by Grace and sanctification.

Yes. Enlighten us all, please.

Fran

Romans 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Sanctification. A daily living for Christ and becoming conformed to His image.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Salvation a one time event eternal in it's nature and extent.

Knowing Roman Catholic doctrine is not the same as knowing Christian doctrine. Christian doctrine is biblical and Roman Catholic doctrine is the ECF's interpretation of what they wanted the bible to say.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

There ya go again!
Talkin' about hell!

But then not warning people how NOT TO GO THERE.

Interesting.

Fran

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[MattTooFor]

The two sides of this ongoing debate could (and possibly will - lol) go on for decades. Both sides have ample scripture. The key is to properly integrate those scriptures.

The problem with FranC's position is...that if you have "eternal life", you have eternal life. Period. You are either immortal or you are not. If you claimed to have eternal life but ended up dead...you never had "eternal life" to begin with.

The problem with all these "misdefined OSAS" people is...their "presumption of salvation" issues. They incorrectly skirt past the issue of who is a believer to begin with. They don't want to talk about that. Not every single soul who says "Lord, Lord" is saved.

If you walk into a church building on a given Sunday morning...how do you sort out who among the congregation is saved or unsaved? THAT is where all the double-think and all the flowery, fuzzy-wuzzy language begins with the quasi-OSAS'ers.

 

[FranC]

Romans 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Sanctification. A daily living for Christ and becoming conformed to His image.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Salvation a one time event eternal in it's nature and extent.

Knowing Roman Catholic doctrine is not the same as knowing Christian doctrine. Christian doctrine is biblical and Roman Catholic doctrine is the ECF's interpretation of what they wanted the bible to say.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hi Roger,
You tried.

BUT you didn't explain salvation through grace OR sanctification!
Sorry.
Care to try again?

Or are you willing to maybe admit that maybe I might even know what it is!! Heavens ta Betsy!

Also, I know both Catholic and Protestant doctrine.
Your saying that Catholic doctrine is not the same as Christian doctrine leads me to believe that you don't consider Catholics to be Christian.

Can that be? What "religion" do you think they are? On Whom are THEY trusting to save them? Krishna, maybe?

And you think Catholic doctrine is the ECF's interprestation of what THEY wanted the bible to mean?

And what exactly is it that YOU are doing? Are you not insisting on what YOU think the bible means?

How about if we all just acceped what the majority of theologians of MAINLINE Christian churches have taught from the beginning, which would include most of the reformers, except John Calvin. He messed things up good and created a different God from the one I know.

Fran

 

[FranC]

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Correct!
He that BELIEVETH (present tense) has eternal life.

He that DOES NOT believe, does have eternal life, but not with God.

We're discussing loss of salvation, NOT who's saved and who isn't.
I'd never discuss that.

Fran

 

[MadebyHim]

I agree with you.
Could you tell us how it could be thrown away?

Fran

If the person that walks away chooses to stay in the cesspool blinded by his own pleasure, not seeing and smelling the stink. In saying this i'm not saying they will go to hell, they just won't be able to enter gates. If its Gods will for none to parish then none will parish. If the word says every tongue will confess, then if one confesses they are saved from hell. But that doesn't mean they get the reward they could have had.

 

[88]

Eternal Security
You CANNOT lose your salvation!​

by David J. Stewart | January 2004 | Updated October 2014​

Eternal Security is the Biblical doctrine that a believer CANNOT lose salvation in Christ Jesus. I recently spoke with a Church of Christ minister who believed that a Christian could LOSE their salvation by failing to maintain a “relationship” with God. Of course, that is a lie of the Devil. The Charismatics are also plagued with this false belief that a person can lose their salvation. Calvinists call this false doctrine, the “Perseverance of the Saints,” that is, they say that you must persevere in good works and continued faith to remain in a state of salvation. The Salvation Army teaches this heresy.​

In sharp contrast to the heresies you've just learned about, the Bible teaches: “If Saved, Always Saved.” Salvation is not doing your best, it is having Christ's best put to your account through receiving Him by faith. Christ died for our sins on the cross, He was buried and raised up bodily from the dead three days later. This is the Gospel (1st Corinthians 15:1-4). John 6:28-29, “Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” Believe and the work is done, you are saved securely and eternally.​

Salvation is By Faith Alone in the Gospel​

SInce mankind has nothing to do with saving himself, then why would God require men to do something to maintain it? Salvation is of God, not men. Paul said to “work out your own salvation” in Philippians 2:12; the Bible doesn't say to work out GOD'S SALVATION. God saves a person, pulling them out of the fires of Hell, but now that person needs to be recycled. It is up to us whether we yield to the Holy Spirit or not in our daily life, to search and obey the Scriptures. However, salvation and discipleship are two separate things entirely. Whether or not a believer lives a holy life has nothing to do with the “free gift” (Romans 5:15) of salvation. Those who say otherwise are adding works to grace, which the Bible condemns (Romans 11:6). Salvation cannot be by God's grace AND man's self-righteous works. Revelation 22:17 states: “...And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.”​

We are clearly taught from God's Word that works are NOT essential to our salvation. Titus 3:5 states... “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us...” And again in Ephesians 2:8,9 we are told, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” We are all Hell-deserving sinners! We do NOT have anything to do with salvation except to receive God's free gift by FAITH. Salvation is receiving, NOT giving. Romans 4:5 reads, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” This is how Abraham was saved in the Old Testament, i.e., his faith was COUNTED for righteousness (Genesis 15:6). Acts 10:43 teaches that Old Testament sinners were saved exactly as they are today... “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”​

If I cannot do good works to get saved,
then how can I do bad works to lose salvation?​

Eternal life is a gift, paid for by Jesus' precious, redeeming, literal, physical, liquid, blood (1st Peter 1:18,19; Hebrews 9:12; Revelation 1:5). Shame on those heretics, such as Dan Corner, who corrupt the simplicity that is in Christ.​

There is a perverted theology today that mixes faith in Christ with surrendering one's life to God in obedience. This false doctrine is called “Lordship Salvation” and it is evil. The very idea that one's lifestyle is a part of saving faith is damnable heresy. Opponents of Eternal Security all follow Lordship Salvation, and they all use the corrupted New International Version. Please listen to the MP3 sermon by Dr. Curtis Hutson titled, “Why A Man Goes To Hell” (Men are not lost because they won't quit their sinning!”).​

Perhaps you ask, what if a believer loses faith? A believer certainly may become discouraged, or falter in their faith for a time. John the Baptist became discouraged and wavered in his faith, even questioning if Jesus were the Christ (Matthew 11:3); yet, Jesus called John the greatest born amongst women (Matthew 11:3,11). The Apostle Peter denied that he knew Christ, cursing the name of Jesus; but the Holy Spirit convicted him, and Peter afterwards repented. When king David commit the sins of adultery, conspiracy and murder, he greatly shamed and brought reproach upon the name of the Lord; yet, we find David repenting, crying out to God for mercy as a Christian in Psalms 51, and God faithfully pardoned him. David never lost God's salvation. If saved, always saved! None of these believers LOST their salvation, and there's not one shred of Biblical evidence to show otherwise.​

If you are a parent, your child didn't make a commitment to become your child; but rather, they were born to become your child. Likewise, we are born-again to become God's child. Just as a child has absolutely NOTHING to do with his or her own birth, neither does the Christian have anything to do with their spiritual birth. It is completely of God. Our part is done the moment we receive Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God—believing that He died on the cross for our sins, was buried, and raised up from the dead three days later (1st Corinthians 15:1-4). John 1:12, “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.”​

If you don't believe the Bible, you can either get right or die wrong.

for more information please visit http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer's%20Corner/eternal_security.htm​

****you probably can't "lose" your salvation---but you could throw it away---Faith is living---and it has works (James 2:17)----if we cease to produce works---this means our faith has died---we become like the withered branch (John 15)----to be a living branch we must abide (John 15:6)----if we cease to abide we become withered and are eventually cast into the fire...

 

[notuptome]

Correct!
He that BELIEVETH (present tense) has eternal life.

He that DOES NOT believe, does have eternal life, but not with God.

We're discussing loss of salvation, NOT who's saved and who isn't.
I'd never discuss that.

Fran

You cannot lose what you do not have. Once you have eternal life it is eternal. You have eternal life the moment you believe on Jesus Christ as your Savior.

Romans 10: 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

He who does not believe has eternal condemnation you know that word which describes the abode of the dead apart from Christ. Hades or hell or the place of outer darkness where there is gnashing of teeth and wailing and weeping.

Grace based salvation is unshakeable. Works based salvation has no foundation upon which to stand. Having begun in grace shall we be perfected in works?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[lizzie1]

Then again why does God say Work out your salvation with fear and trembling??

 

[PeterJens]

Then again why does God say Work out your salvation with fear and trembling??

Paul says he walks blamelessly, in holiness and purity. Big language.
Yet he also says he does not judge himself but leaves it up to God.

So if Paul knew this intimacy with Christ and the Father, and yet was
careful to recognise we are sinners saved by grace and never presumptious,
why is it people snatch a prize with such disdain and arrogance, as if it is
theres to claim before they have finished the race.

But this suggests to me the spirit of their desire which is not that of Christ,
but of the world, wanting something before its proper time, and seeing no one
to say otherwise, claim it anyway. Dangerous stuff.

The first will be last and the last first.

 

[FranC]

The two sides of this ongoing debate could (and possibly will - lol) go on for decades. Both sides have ample scripture. The key is to properly integrate those scriptures.

The problem with FranC's position is...that if you have "eternal life", you have eternal life. Period. You are either immortal or you are not. If you claimed to have eternal life but ended up dead...you never had "eternal life" to begin with.

The problem with all these "misdefined OSAS" people is...their "presumption of salvation" issues. They incorrectly skirt past the issue of who is a believer to begin with. They don't want to talk about that. Not every single soul who says "Lord, Lord" is saved.

If you walk into a church building on a given Sunday morning...how do you sort out who among the congregation is saved or unsaved? THAT is where all the double-think and all the flowery, fuzzy-wuzzy language begins with the quasi-OSAS'ers.

Hi MattTooFor

You're not properly representing what I believe.

I believe that we never die but we live forever.
We are immortal.

This has nothing to do with "eternal life". By this we mean life as in "living". Being alive, true life, a way of living, a vigor, a souce of activity or liveliness, an absorbing interest, a person or thing necessry to someone, to be awake, sensitive, sprightly.
Thorndike Barnhart Dictionary

If you notice, when the N.T. speaks of eternal life it is Always in relationship to Jesus. He is our eternal "life".
John the Apostle spoke about this in many verses and Jesus also used the same phrase. I'll post just a few.

IOW, as I have repeated often here, IF you are IN CHRIST you have eternal life.
IF you are NOt IN CHRIST you do not have eternal life, as John meant the expression. One does live forever.

Fran

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.
John 10:28-30 | NIV |

The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.
1 John 2:17 | NIV |

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16 | NIV |

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:13 | NIV |

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23 | NIV | sin reward judgement

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
John 3:36 | NIV |

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
John 17:3 | NIV |


“But whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
John 4:14 | NIV | (Jesus)