Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

[notuptome]

Then again why does God say Work out your salvation with fear and trembling??

That is a translational thing. In the original language it is better translated as out work or show forth your salvation not work to obtain. The fear and trembling is not fear of loss but in wonder of so great a salvation. When you realize what you are saved from it is an awesome thing to begin to comprehend what Christ has given us.

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Grace777x70]

Hi Grace,

First of all we Protestants don't believe in purgatory, right? Do you?

It seems to me that everyone undersands what the word ABANDON means.
I feel that everyone here has a reading level sufficient to understand what it means to ABANDON GOD.

As to where they go... I leave that to God. I'm not here to condemn anyone because I'd only be condemning myself.

What I AM here to do is to warn people to HOLD ON TO JESUS throughout their lives.
Not to give up NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS. I've seen this often.
TO HANG ON TO JESUS FOR THEIR LIFE. Because that's what the N.T. exhorts us to do.

Fran

Nope ..I don't believe in purgatory....lol

Tell me what abandoning God would be in your mind. To some it could mean "not going to the church that others go to"...not reading their bible....etc. Faith is of the heart - not in the mind.

Well. ...when you tell people they will lose their salvation - what exactly are you saying ? There are only 2 places that scriptures talk about. What happens when they "lose their salvation" when that term is used?

I certainly agree 100% to hold on to Jesus and all that He has done if we want to experience life in this world.

No scriptures say that we become "un-born" or that we can pluck ourselves out of His hand or that our union with Christ is severed and thus He leaves us. Absolutely none.

All this is man-made religious traditions passed on to others and it is without a doubt the worse demonic inspired doctrine that has been perpetrated in the mind of man onto the body of Christ and it has caused untold damage.

I agree and teach the warnings in scripture of holding unto the promises of God so that we can experience life - His life. The scriptures really don't talk about heaven and hell that much - they talk in terms of experiencing life. God's quality of life that only comes from Christ Himself.

(Per your previous post - Here is that link again for the difference between sin - the noun and sinning - the verb in Romans chapter 6 & 7. )

link:

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...have-dominion-over-us-christ.html#post2835447

Here is a short 6 minute video about "sin" in Romans 6 & 7


[video=youtube;bNdsZt8rthw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNdsZt8rthw[/video]

 

[FranC]

****you probably can't "lose" your salvation---but you could throw it away---Faith is living---and it has works (James 2:17)----if we cease to produce works---this means our faith has died---we become like the withered branch (John 15)----to be a living branch we must abide (John 15:6)----if we cease to abide we become withered and are eventually cast into the fire...

Hi 88
I'm happy you posted. You make an important point. You really don't lose your salation, it's more like you throw it away. Just like you said. YOU have to take some kind of action to lose it, it's not like you just lose it one day. You have to NOT WANT it anymore.

Your other points are well taken too, ceasing to produce, withering branches, abiding, etc.

We should remember that some cannot produce for either mental or physical problems. They are still loved by God.

Fran

 

[FranC]

That is a translational thing. In the original language it is better translated as out work or show forth your salvation not work to obtain. The fear and trembling is not fear of loss but in wonder of so great a salvation. When you realize what you are saved from it is an awesome thing to begin to comprehend what Christ has given us.

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

See Uptome. You don't properly exegete scripture.

Philippians 2:12 does NOT mean to "show forth" your salvation.

Here's what it means:

Philippians 2:12 New International Version (NIV)

Do Everything Without Grumbling
12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

It is indeed about Paul telling the Christians at Philippi in E. Macedonia that they were to work out their salvation with fear and trembling.

The explanation is that "fear and trembling" is not how we would understand it today.
At the time that this phrase was written it meant in reverence and out of respect.

Paul knew that he had a great work to do for God. It's correct to say that he was in awe of that great work and that great salvation through Jesus.

However, the fear and trembling refers to the reverence that is given to that work BECAUES it is so awesome.

Paul is telling the Christians at Philippi to continue doing, not only what they were doing when he was with them, obeying all that Paul told them (living a Godly life) but to double what they were doing before. He tells them to go out into the world uncorrupted, as the world is, and to be a "teaching tool" for God.


Over and over again Paul instructs to continue in a Godly life. He never said to not be worried because they "accepted" Jesus at some point in their life.

Fran

 

[Enow]

****you probably can't "lose" your salvation---but you could throw it away---Faith is living---and it has works (James 2:17)----if we cease to produce works---this means our faith has died---we become like the withered branch (John 15)----to be a living branch we must abide (John 15:6)----if we cease to abide we become withered and are eventually cast into the fire...

But which fire is that? Certainly not the eternal torment fire.

There is a Refiner's fire in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 and there is a fire that is coming on the earth as opposing the Noah's flood ( Luke 12:40-49 ) From your P.O.V. I would say both the Refiner's fire and the fire coming on the earth will fall on those not found abiding in His words, but eternal fire will not ever be the consequence for not abiding in Him after having been saved.

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree with Fran about "fear and trembling".

Fear and trembling is misunderstood. It means a reverence and awe for the goodness of God and "a lack of trust in one's own abilities." In other words, we are dependent upon Jesus Christ and rest in Him. Look in the Greek and other verses that use that saying, even the apostle Paul spoke of preaching with fear and much trembling, meaning distrusting in his own abilities and relying on the Spirit's power.

It is an interesting to study out in the N.T. the term "fear and trembling". It is not what it was in the O.T.

If we let scripture interpret scripture we see that in the 2 other places where "fear and trembling" was used it referred to the woman with the issue of blood and Jesus healed her. She experienced the goodness and love of Jesus and she had awe and reverence for the goodness done to her.

Mark 5:33 (KJV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.


The other usage was Paul and he was referring to having no confidence in himself as he was coming to preach the gospel to the Corinthians. 1 Cor. 2:3-5

Fear and trembling = being in awe and reverence of the goodness of God to us and our complete reliance on Him for all things..especially in preaching the gospel.

It is never being "afraid" of God. It's knowing His love for us that takes away the bad kind of fear.

1 John 4:17-19 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]We love, because He first loved us.

 

[Grace777x70]

Also to "work out your salvation" in Phil. 2:12 means to work out what is already in us in our new creation in Christ. Work out this life outwardly to reflect His life.

Paul said in 1 Cor. 15 - "Awake to righteousness and sin not" Awake in the Greek means "to come to one's senses - to sober up to be who you really are". Awake to who you are in Christ and the works of the flesh will not be fulfilled and these will fall off us like dead leaves on a tree. We are the righteousness of God in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

We must always put Phil. 2:13 with verse 12 too.

Work out your salvation ...verse 13 - "for it is God who is at work in you both to will and to do His good pleasure." God is in us - joined as one spirit with us. He gives us both the desire and the capability to do what is good and profitable and is in love towards others.

These are great exciting 2 verses that speak of God doing His work in us - we look to Him for all things. We do participate in this with Him as we grow in grace and the knowledge of the great salvation that is in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Let's preach the love and grace of God towards us in Christ and so we will have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him. The gospel is "good news" - Good news means it has already happened. Repent and believe the gospel just like Jesus said in Mark 1:15

 

[notuptome]

See Uptome. You don't properly exegete scripture.

Philippians 2:12 does NOT mean to "show forth" your salvation.

Here's what it means:

Philippians 2:12 New International Version (NIV)

Do Everything Without Grumbling
12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

It is indeed about Paul telling the Christians at Philippi in E. Macedonia that they were to work out their salvation with fear and trembling.

The explanation is that "fear and trembling" is not how we would understand it today.
At the time that this phrase was written it meant in reverence and out of respect.

Paul knew that he had a great work to do for God. It's correct to say that he was in awe of that great work and that great salvation through Jesus.

However, the fear and trembling refers to the reverence that is given to that work BECAUES it is so awesome.

Paul is telling the Christians at Philippi to continue doing, not only what they were doing when he was with them, obeying all that Paul told them (living a Godly life) but to double what they were doing before. He tells them to go out into the world uncorrupted, as the world is, and to be a "teaching tool" for God.


Over and over again Paul instructs to continue in a Godly life. He never said to not be worried because they "accepted" Jesus at some point in their life.

Fran

I understand where you are at. Romanism has colored your thinking that works are necessary to stay saved. You cannot understand that God could give so great a gift to so worthless a people. Understandable but God did it by grace and because of His great love for mankind. So terrible was the penalty for sin that God paid a price that was even greater so that He might act in mercy and save completely whosoever will come to Jesus.

There can be no peace that passes understanding if there is any fear of loss of salvation. Assurance is absolute or it is non existent.

Paul was not in awe of his work but of the grace of God. Because of the grace of God Paul could face death, persecution and tribulation without fear. The salvation that leads to eternal life is Christ centered and not self centered. I can add nothing to the finished work of Christ. I am made the very righteousness of God in Christ.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I hope someday that you come to the knowledge that we can add nothing to the grace of God. Until then there is only labor in futility.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[FranC]

Nope ..I don't believe in purgatory....lol

Tell me what abandoning God would be in your mind. To some it could mean "not going to the church that others go to"...not reading their bible....etc. Faith is of the heart - not in the mind.

Well. ...when you tell people they will lose their salvation - what exactly are you saying ? There are only 2 places that scriptures talk about. What happens when they "lose their salvation" when that term is used?

I certainly agree 100% to hold on to Jesus and all that He has done if we want to experience life in this world.

No scriptures say that we become "un-born" or that we can pluck ourselves out of His hand or that our union with Christ is severed and thus He leaves us. Absolutely none.

All this is man-made religious traditions passed on to others and it is without a doubt the worse demonic inspired doctrine that has been perpetrated in the mind of man onto the body of Christ and it has caused untold damage.

I agree and teach the warnings in scripture of holding unto the promises of God so that we can experience life - His life. The scriptures really don't talk about heaven and hell that much - they talk in terms of experiencing life. God's quality of life that only comes from Christ Himself.

(Per your previous post - Here is that link again for the difference between sin - the noun and sinning - the verb in Romans chapter 6 & 7. )

link:

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...have-dominion-over-us-christ.html#post2835447

Here is a short 6 minute video about "sin" in Romans 6 & 7

Hi Grace,

Yes. Understanding each other is important. We'll probably still disagree but we should at least understand each other.
Thanks for this opportunity.

I read your post on sin and sinning. It's correct and good and it's explained perfectly. You use some different terms, but it's unimportant. Sometimes we need to listen to what the person is saying instead of what words they're using.

88 made a point in his post on page 21 which might be the reason you're not understanding me well.

I use the term "lose salvation". One doesn't just lose his salvation. I've repeated many times that the way to lose salvation is to ABANDON God. Maybe this is not understood. One doesn't lose salvation by sinning - I've said this repeatedly. One must make a CONSCIOUS decision NOT to follow God anymore, not to want to serve Him, not to want to be in the Kingdom, not to have Jesus as his example and "leader" - I'd like to say Lord but I don't like Lordship salvation. But Jesus MUST be our Lord.

You don't lose salvation by not going to Church or by anything else you do that is a sin. Sins are forgiven by God AS LONG AS WE REMAIN WITH HIM AND IN HIM.

Now, the reason I'm still here (and you'll find I do this only rarely) is precisely because I feel it's important to know that IF one wishes to abandon God and Faith, then yes, he will be in the same state he was in before he was saved.
2 peter 2:20-22.



Here's where we differ somewhat:

1. You understand that when the bible is speaking about "life" it means life here on earth.
This is right. BUT it's also speaking about eternal life. I posted many verses from John that show he is speaking about eternal life, the life hereafter that lasts forever.

Here it is again:

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.
John 10:28-30 | NIV |

The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.
1 John 2:17 | NIV |

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16 | NIV |

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:13 | NIV |

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23 | NIV | sin reward judgement

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
John 3:36 | NIV |

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
John 17:3 | NIV |


“But whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
John 4:14 | NIV | (Jesus)


2. You're looking for a scripture that says we cannot be unborn. Could you find me a scripture that says we can never lose our salvation?

No. So we must go by the preponderance of the evidence. When the N.T. was being written, the Writers never thought the teaching of OSAS would EVER be taught or understood.

I asked you WHEN this doctrine came into being and you replied when Jesus taught.
This is not correct. Jesus taught that we were to change, that we were to DO things for God, that we might be cut-off, If God did not spare the original branches, how would WE be spared?? Jesus said not to love worldly things, to leave all to follow Him, He NEVER said to just believe in Him and we would not lose our salvation. There's not one hint of this in the entire N.T.

There are important verses saying the opposite though. I've listed so many I hesitate to keep on...

Hebrews 6:4-6
2 Peter 2:20-22
1 John 2:23

I do believe we could become unborn. If we are not in the Kingdom of God, we are unborn. We have returned to our previous ways and have left the Kingdom of God.

(this is not an easy thing to do - but we cannot deny that it happens.)


Fran

 

[FranC]

I understand where you are at. Romanism has colored your thinking that works are necessary to stay saved. You cannot understand that God could give so great a gift to so worthless a people. Understandable but God did it by grace and because of His great love for mankind. So terrible was the penalty for sin that God paid a price that was even greater so that He might act in mercy and save completely whosoever will come to Jesus.

There can be no peace that passes understanding if there is any fear of loss of salvation. Assurance is absolute or it is non existent.

Paul was not in awe of his work but of the grace of God. Because of the grace of God Paul could face death, persecution and tribulation without fear. The salvation that leads to eternal life is Christ centered and not self centered. I can add nothing to the finished work of Christ. I am made the very righteousness of God in Christ.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I hope someday that you come to the knowledge that we can add nothing to the grace of God. Until then there is only labor in futility.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

What is Romanism???

Fran

 

[notuptome]

What is Romanism???

Fran

The religion of the Roman Catholic church where grace and works are combined into a message which replaces the true gospel.

A religion which subjugates the parishioners with a message that if they follow these precepts they will attain to that which they seek, eventually, hopefully, maybe.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[FranC]

But which fire is that? Certainly not the eternal torment fire.

There is a Refiner's fire in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 and there is a fire that is coming on the earth as opposing the Noah's flood ( Luke 12:40-49 ) From your P.O.V. I would say both the Refiner's fire and the fire coming on the earth will fall on those not found abiding in His words, but eternal fire will not ever be the consequence for not abiding in Him after having been saved.

Enow,
We are to ABIDE in Christ. And to CONTINUE to abide in Him.

Which words in these verses do you not understand??




John 15:4-9
"Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. read more.

2 John 1:9

Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.


Fran

 

[FranC]

The religion of the Roman Catholic church where grace and works are combined into a message which replaces the true gospel.

A religion which subjugates the parishioners with a message that if they follow these precepts they will attain to that which they seek, eventually, hopefully, maybe.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Are you Roman Catholic?
Why are you speaking about the Roman Catholic Church??

Fran

 

[notuptome]

Enow,
We are to ABIDE in Christ. And to CONTINUE to abide in Him.

Which words in these verses do you not understand??


2 John 1:9
Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.

John 15:4-9
"Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. read more.

2 John 1:9

Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.

John 15:4-9
Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. read more.

Fran

When will you understand that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption?

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Grace777x70]

Hi Grace,

Yes. Understanding each other is important. We'll probably still disagree but we should at least understand each other.
Thanks for this opportunity.

I read your post on sin and sinning. It's correct and good and it's explained perfectly. You use some different terms, but it's unimportant. Sometimes we need to listen to what the person is saying instead of what words they're using.

88 made a point in his post on page 21 which might be the reason you're not understanding me well.

I use the term "lose salvation". One doesn't just lose his salvation. I've repeated many times that the way to lose salvation is to ABANDON God. Maybe this is not understood. One doesn't lose salvation by sinning - I've said this repeatedly. One must make a CONSCIOUS decision NOT to follow God anymore, not to want to serve Him, not to want to be in the Kingdom, not to have Jesus as his example and "leader" - I'd like to say Lord but I don't like Lordship salvation. But Jesus MUST be our Lord.

You don't lose salvation by not going to Church or by anything else you do that is a sin. Sins are forgiven by God AS LONG AS WE REMAIN WITH HIM AND IN HIM.

Now, the reason I'm still here (and you'll find I do this only rarely) is precisely because I feel it's important to know that IF one wishes to abandon God and Faith, then yes, he will be in the same state he was in before he was saved.
2 peter 2:20-22.



Here's where we differ somewhat:

1. You understand that when the bible is speaking about "life" it means life here on earth.
This is right. BUT it's also speaking about eternal life. I posted many verses from John that show he is speaking about eternal life, the life hereafter that lasts forever.

Here it is again:

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.
John 10:28-30 | NIV |

The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.
1 John 2:17 | NIV |

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16 | NIV |

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:13 | NIV |

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23 | NIV | sin reward judgement

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
John 3:36 | NIV |

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
John 17:3 | NIV |


“But whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
John 4:14 | NIV | (Jesus)


2. You're looking for a scripture that says we cannot be unborn. Could you find me a scripture that says we can never lose our salvation?

No. So we must go by the preponderance of the evidence. When the N.T. was being written, the Writers never thought the teaching of OSAS would EVER be taught or understood.

I asked you WHEN this doctrine came into being and you replied when Jesus taught.
This is not correct. Jesus taught that we were to change, that we were to DO things for God, that we might be cut-off, If God did not spare the original branches, how would WE be spared?? Jesus said not to love worldly things, to leave all to follow Him, He NEVER said to just believe in Him and we would not lose our salvation. There's not one hint of this in the entire N.T.

There are important verses saying the opposite though. I've listed so many I hesitate to keep on...

Hebrews 6:4-6
2 Peter 2:20-22
1 John 2:23

I do believe we could become unborn. If we are not in the Kingdom of God, we are unborn. We have returned to our previous ways and have left the Kingdom of God.

(this is not an easy thing to do - but we cannot deny that it happens.)


Fran

Yes. it is good that understand what each one is saying...

I still don't see where one "abandon's God" is defined. I think it is a term used that has no definition that can be qualified. I made a conscious decision not to follow the church that I was going to. To them I left the Lord but 15 years later - God Himself taught me the gospel of the grace of God.

Abiding in Christ is a position we have because we are joined as one spirit with the Lord. We are united with Him -Romans 6:4-6.

John 15 is all about fruit bearing - not where one is going to spend eternity. If we don't abide in Christ's peace - then we will not experience peace. What is the fruit of the Spirit? These are the fruit that is bore from His life manifesting in us. This does not determine heaven or hell.

2 Peter 2:20-22 is very clearly talking about false teachers and false prophets when we read it in context. If we never read scriptures in their context we can get the bible to say anything we want.

Here is a link of mailmandan that looks at 2 Peter 2:20 - I know you might not accept it but maybe others will look at it and help them in their faith with the Lord.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...me-best-warnings-churches-15.html#post2724484

2 Peter 2:20 Hebrews 6 and 10 and 1 John 2:23 have all been addressed before and none of them say that believers in Christ go to hell - which is the only place left if we are not with the Lord.

I have shown you and others have too myriads of scriptures that say we have life in Christ because we believe in Him with our heart. - not the mind. We can get crazy thoughts in our mind and still be joined in the spirit. It's in working out the salvation that is in us to experience this "life in Christ that we have now".

Eternal life is the quality of the life of God that is in us. Some aspects of His life can be experienced in this life if we don't walk after the flesh and live by the spirit instead.

This in no way means that we will not experience His life when we go to be with the Lord and have this un-renewed brain and body left behind in the grace.

As far as being "un-born".

Can someone by an "act of their will" un-born themselves from being a human being? Can they one day say "I don't want to be a human anymore so I as an act of my will - I am un-born myself" ( we would think there is something wrong with this person's mind )

Can some one by "an act of their will" stop being a son/daughter to someone? Of course not - they will always be the child of their parents whether they like it or not.

We can no more by "an act of our will" un-born ourselves from God which Peter says we are born again of incorruptible seed which lies and abides forever. We cannot "un-child" ourselves from being God's child because of Jesus Christ.

( we can become sick in our minds as the person that wants to "un-born" themselves as a human but the real us - the inner man of the heart that is in Christ - that inner man has his will entwined with God's perfect will because of union with Christ )

This is one of the reasons we need to "renew our mind" to align up with the spiritual truths that are in our new spirit in Christ.

Following God's commandments to us will be a natural result of being in Christ as we grow up in Him.

We are looking at what "we do" when we say that we lose salvation for going to heaven instead of what "Jesus has already done".


Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would be with you and in you forever. Now, is Jesus a liar? That's a question to ask ourselves.

Our Father will perfect that which concerns us for it is He that is at work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. I'll trust His love in us to "guide us" through life. Phil. 2:13

There is also discipline of the Lord ( child-training in Greek - not "un-childing" them as children ) This proves that we are legitimate children of God.

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

 

[PeterJens]

Got to say I am impressed by these long posts, unless they are copied and pasted.

But are the points really this involved or is most fluff and distraction?

 

[PeterJens]

I suppose if you are an emotional blank sheet you could project anything on it.

It makes me wonder how some appear so passive to obvious emotional issues.

It then struck me I have met this before. Total emotional repression with a superficial
display to keep people happy.

It creates the effect of being under control, not effected, but actually it is very
unhealthy almost removed involvement. So when people appear non-responsive,
begin to wonder what on earth they are hiding that is so difficult to disclose even
to themselves. No one is that repressed.

Jesus wept at Lazarus's funeral, even though He knew he would raise him from the
dead.

So people who are truly mature, know how to empathise and feel with others, to
reach out and be alongside and get wounded and hurt, but can handle it.

Jesus calls us to be real from the heart to our outsides, so we are the same
no matter which circumstance or environment we are in.

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

You guys are arguing from books and verses that don't pertain to the body of Christ. It's why you see so many contradictory verses in the bible that believers can't agree on. You guys aren't rightly dividing the word. You have to understand the difference between what's going on during Jesus' earthly ministry and the people in Acts vs what God starts new with the apostle Paul. In Paul first, God shows his longsuffering grace as a pattern for them whom believe HEREAFTER!

(1Tim 1:16 [AKJV)
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first (Paul) Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Paul is the first member of the body and those whom believe his gospel after are placed in the body of Christ. Not the Little Flock or believing remnant in the OT and NT. Gen-Acts Rom-Phil Heb-Rev Rightly divide God's different instructions for man. Two realms. Heaven and Earth. There are people who will be in heaven, the BoC, and those on Earth. All those who believed outside of the dispensation of Grace.

Eph 1.10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him

If everyone is part of the body of Christ, who is Christ gathering together in Christ both in heaven and in earth? Who's in heaven and who's in earth? If everyone is going to be in the kingdom, who's Christ gathering together from heaven? If everyone's in heaven, who is Christ gathering together from Earth? And you can't say it's the people over in Revelation because the verse says that IN DISPENSATION THE FULLNESS OF TIMES he will gather both those in heaven and in earth.

So apparently, there are two groups of people at the beginning of the fullness of times. That's right. The body of Christ, in heavenly places, and Israel in their Earthly kingdom!

 

[Grace777x70]

No, it means those that are on the earth when the Lord comes will be gathered with those that are in heaven. For we are all one body in the Lord Jesus Himself. Christ is all in all. For in Him all things consist.

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

Also note, that 95% or more of the verses you guys can't agree on are always Paul's verses vs everyone else's. That's not a coincidence.