Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

[Grace777x70]

Our hope is certain in Christ because being in the faith is determined as fulfilled.

There are a lot of times in the original Greek the "if" is actually a statement of it is determined as fulfilled.....

It is called "a condition of the first class"..... Colossians 1:23 is a prime example:

Colossians 1:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


If so be that ye continue in the faith (ei ge epimenete tēi pistei).

Condition of the first class (determined as fulfilled),

Word Pictures in the New Testament. A. T. Robertson Greek Scholar



Sort of like this....you are going to the bank..and I say to you.... "If" you are going to be at the bank ( determined as already fulfilled )...get me $100 bucks.

I'll take a check too...

 

[PeterJens]

I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.
1 Cor 1:10

Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Cor 7:1

And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
Col 3:14

 

[PeterJens]

I always thank my God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus.
1 cor 1:4

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
2 Cor 13:14

 

[willybob]

Got to say these corrections are soooooo instructive ......

Its like a deer in a headlight Peter (cognitive dissidence ) it doesn't register...The analytical side of the mind shuts down, and the emotional side feeds everything, there heart feeds off emotion instead of the truth in scripture..thus palcing the cart before the horse....Example: when Jesus said "go and sin no more, lest a worse thing happen to you" doesn't even register with them, they become like deer in the headlights of on coming truth, it paralyses them and completely undermines their foundational position built upon shifting sands...This is why Jesus spoke to many in parables...../

 

[fredoheaven]

Here is what the Bible says in the KJV and other versions especially of that v.23

Colossian 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in yourmind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Colossians 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

The “if” and “the” in the verse is of contention here:

The Strong definition is that of “if” is:
εἴγε eíge, i'-gheh; from G1487 and G1065; if indeed, seeing that, unless, (with negative) otherwise:—if (so be that, yet).
Thayer on the other hand says it: if that is to say; on the assumption that

So we have to rule out which must be the correct meaning of the word.

Even the KJV says “if” does this means conditional? It so happens that we need to continue in the faith not in one’s faith, “your faith”. This faith is grounded and settled and will not move away from the hope of the gospel. So this really is not talking about our faith. This is the faith that God gives. It certainly does not doubt. The context would really tell us the meaning of “if”.
1. It should be noted that the Colossians Christians were once alienated and enemies yet presently they were reconciled because of what Christ did on the cross. It is all because of Christ indeed, “seeing that” the Collosians continue in the faith.
2. The conjucnction “if” means used to say that something will happen only after something else happens or is true, Cambridge Learners Dictionary p.356

Is it true then that something happens to those whom Paul wrote this Epistle? Yes certainly, that from negative to positive, from wicked works to the works of Christ. So that, it happened they continue in the faith, the faith once delivered unto the saints and has nothing to do with the daily faith of the believer whether it waves or doubt. The Bible is so telling us that normally a Christian has more faith or a lesser faith and that’s is not the context is about.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once deliveredunto the saints.

3. It so happened that the NIV and few others is there all to say that one is to continue in his faith or “your faith”. Most, translations or versions says “the faith” not ‘your faith” a big difference!

God bless

 

[Absolem]

What if a Christian committed suicide?

 

[posthuman]

What if a Christian committed suicide?

haven't we all?

For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
(Colossians 3:3)

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[wsblind]

What if a Christian committed suicide?

Would they lose salvation? No.

I am convinced that suicide is one of Gods ways of bringing the believer Home, because they have chosen not to live the Christian life that God has planned for them.

Suicide is the epitome of selfishness. And selfishness is not part of the Christian life.

 

[Grace777x70]

There are some that say we can "stop believing" once we are born again of incorruptible seed. This is not true. You can get messed up in your head - in our thinking but our heart - the new creation in Christ has been created in righteousness and holiness cannot perish.

If people can stop believing in our hearts as an act of our own will - this is like a human saying they can with an act of their will "stop being a human being". They can as an act of their will stop being a son or daughter.

If people can stop believing in their hearts - then that means everyone in heaven can now at anytime stop believing in what Christ has done for them. Moses can stop believing in God. David can stop believing in God. Abraham can now too stop believing in God. Everyone that was born again of God since Christ has ascended to the throne - they too can stop believing in Him.

The apostle Paul can stop believing in Christ at anytime as well as Peter, James, John...etc.

This is so foolish and demonically inspired to say that people once born again - they will not be joined to the Lord at some point later in their life and can or will stop believing in their heart ( not their messed up thinking in their heads ).

It is a faith killing demonically inspired doctrine that will nullify the grace of God from operating in our lives. This will leave our minds open to the devil's deception and lies. This is one of the reasons why people commit suicide.

There are many warnings about not being sound in our faith to partake of the life of Christ that is in us in the Lord while on this earth. Walk by the flesh and we will not be experiencing the life of Christ in this life.

Refuse to believe that God will look after us in trouble and will not experience His peace and bring turmoil in our minds while on this earth. Does this mean that we go to hell now because we didn't experience His peace? There are only 2 places to spend eternity - either with Him or not with Him.

Jesus is not a liar. He said that the Holy Spirit will be in and with us forever. John 14:16

Yes, we can get messed up in our un-renewed minds and be ship-wrecked in this life from listening to the lies and deceptions but one never stops being a son/daughter of their Father.

Let's preach and teach the love and grace of God shown in Christ so that we will have the "nutrients" to be established in the faith and walk in His life that is in us now in Christ.

1 John 5:11-13 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

[SUP]12[/SUP] He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Believing will always be in the preset tense because the present is the only time that is always with us. The heart of man in Christ - the new creation is imperishable which is why we are sealed with the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption.

1 Peter 1:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

 

[PeterJens]

This is so foolish and demonically inspired to say that people once born again - they will not be joined to the Lord at some point later in their life and can or will stop believing in their heart ( not their messed up thinking in their heads ).

It is a faith killing demonically inspired doctrine that will nullify the grace of God from operating in our lives. This will leave our minds open to the devil's deception and lies. This is one of the reasons why people commit suicide.

Do we know how we come to faith? No. A conviction comes upon us that it is true.
So if people fall away, do we know why they fall away? No.

In the parable of the seed and the sower, some it is the good things get chocked
by the weeds and worries of life, in others their hearts stay hard and the word
does not penetrate and when persecution comes they fall away.

Now these are observable realities.
To say expressing this observable reality is demonic shows a sad disposition of an
individual.

The promises are always conditional on belief and faith actively in the believers life.
And if you look to the cross, Christ is always there forgiving with open arms. So
why does anyone need a belief that says, though they have turned there back on
Christ, they are still called accepted? I leave these things up to the Lord, because
I cannot say who is saved and who is not, just that I follow my Lord.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do I even understand.
You're funny.

WHAT DEED did I say has to be done to maintain salvation?????

The reason you're Always confused by what I say is that you don't listen to what I'm saying.

You tell me. What deed must you do so that you do not LOSE salvation?

Your the one preaching eternal does not mean eternal. Never does not mean never.

WHat else do you want me to do than to think you think one must earn salvation. and God is a liar? I can come to no other conclusion unless you enlighten me.

 

[PeterJens]

It is a faith killing

This is an odd concept. Faith cannot be killed, but it can die if trust is lost.
Our trust rests on the cross, and who God is.

The proposition is if God turns away from sin and evil, that somehow means
our trust is gone, because we are forever evil and unacceptable so therefore
salvation cannot be without a response and change, it needs a dependency.

But God will always turn away from sin and evil, as it is rebellion against Him.
But in Christ we have a solution, and through fellowship and communion, walking
with an open heart we can find resolution and victory.

But if the whole point of the cross is the power to walk righteously, then to
say this is not true, or not part of the whole experience, is to deny the power
of faith:

People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
2 Tim 3:2-5

Now to call those following righteously after Christ, is the fulfillment of the gospel
and the cross, demonically inspired and led, demonstrates poison of this teaching.

The power of God is the lives and victory the cross brings to peoples lives.

And when I look at the teachers espoused as great, they follow the list to varying
degrees, and so condemn themselves to their false teaching.

 

[PeterJens]

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
John 17:3

Now to know God is to have communion with Him. And in this communion purity, holiness, love
dwell and flow from us.

Everything is empowered through this communion that if we break we fall into sin and rebellion.
Now we all know the spiritual ups and downs we have in our lives, and sometimes the unbelief
that can seemingly creep in.

So we know eternal life is the phrase for dwelling with God, but it is driven by our will and choices.
Riding a bicycle is not an automatic process, you always have to keep moving to stay balanced.
If you stop riding the bike, you cannot pretend you still have an active eternal relationship with
the Lord.

What is so odd, is to even have this repeated conversation, where to arrive for some is a prison
out of which there is no exit, and to others is a loving joint celebration of love and sharing.

When did the loving father of the prodigal son ever put shackles on him when he returned.
Why would he ever leave because the alternative is much worse.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nice.

But it's your side that is Always posting

EPHISIANS 2:8

So now it's Jesus that saves?
NOT FAITH??

Interesting concept.

Maybe it's Abraham that saves?
Or Moses?
Or David?

OF COURSE IT'S JESUS!

But you have to have FAITH IN HIM to BE IN HIM.

For you have been saved BY FAITH through GRACE.

What other new concept will you come up with to suit your own mistaken beliefs???

when will you try to understand what true saving faith is, and what it is not. That it is the work of God that we believe, not our own work (john 6)

that whoever believes in him (has true saving faith) will never hunger and thirst, Never die, Live forever. HAS eternal life. and given Gods own pledge in the HS that you will be risen on the last day (John 3, John 6, and eph 1)

You keep saying we ignore scripture. When scripture says the opposite of what you are saying. You have to resolve john 3, john 6, eph 1, and the many other passages you have been given which PROVE eternal security.. You have yet to do so.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

BTW,

Not every passenger in a plane has FAITH in that plane.
Many get on it all drugged up and scared to Death.
I liken them to the unsaved.

THE PILOT, OTOH, has FAITH in his Aircraft.
If HE loses faith in mid-flight,
YES, there's a good chance he'll freeze up and maybe crash.

oh boy. Maybe this explains things?


The pilot of the plane is Jesus, Is Jesus going to get scared and crash the plane? Or will he pilot the plane to the destination?

If you think men pilot the plane, this may be your problem.

 

[FranC]

haven't we all?

For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
(Colossians 3:3)

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For goodness sake Posthuman!
Neither you nor I or anyone here has committed suicide!

You are belittling this awful act of desperation.
Do you know anyone who committed suicide?

Would you say it's the same as dying to OURSELVES??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

problem solved if you can see it.


New American Standard Bible
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

good post.

We are saved by grace, not by faith. It is the work of God which saved us, Namely the cross..

Jesus pilots the plane, or the train (a good ole song about having faith to get on the train bound to heaven. Our ticket was paid, and is waiting for us, all we have to do is take it in faith)

The jews were highly religious people who were very works oriented. thats why they rejected Christ. The roman church took their place with all their religious sacraments and means to heaven. Sadly when the reformation occurred. Many may have gotten rid of some of the sacramental system, but they still hang on to some form of works based system.

They do not understand if Christ came to earth today as man, he would reject their works like he did the work of the saducee and pharisee, and they too would in anger reject him just like the jews did..

 

[FranC]

Would they lose salvation? No.

I am convinced that suicide is one of Gods ways of bringing the believer Home, because they have chosen not to live the Christian life that God has planned for them.

Suicide is the epitome of selfishness. And selfishness is not part of the Christian life.

So persons who are not living the christian life, and are selfish, in fact the epitome of selfishness,

Are going to heaven, according to you.

Another example of how your side twists scripture to make it fit what You want it to say.

I'll only state this scripture...

Didn't Jesus command us to love our neighbor as OURSELVES?
Does someone who committs suicide love himself??

 

[FranC]

God's way of bringing the believer home because they have CHOSEN not to live the christian life!!!

Incredible reasoning!

Not much more to say if one could make such a statement.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You really hate Catholics.
I sure hope you don't know any.

YOU would make them hate protestants.

You must not know any either. They do hate protestants. Who do you think gave us that name.

And no, we do not hate them, we hate their gospel. because it leads people to hell.