Eternal torment VS Annihilation

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Dec 12, 2013
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You talked about eternal torment you did not answer the question put to you. It's not all about me or you it's all about Jesus. Deflect on answering questions much?
I answered clearly...put your glasses on and go re-read or don't address me again....!
 

JesusLives

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Oct 11, 2013
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God did indeed say the lost will suffer eternal torment and as a matter of fact the word used in Luke is TORCHER........and in Revelation TORMENT......the liars are all that reject the inspired verbiage and then peddle something contrary........

FOR EVER AND EVER is clear.....
Please show me where God said wages of sin is Eternal torment instead of the wages of sin is Death..
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Please show me where God said wages of sin is Eternal torment instead of the wages of sin is Death..
You can read, surely you can add and make deductive BIBLICAL CONCLUSIONS.....if not...you're on the wrong site pal
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Some People believe hell is not eternal

The reason is God love

Love mean Not punish

That is wrong reason.

Love also mean create community security.

There must be a firm law or strong Will kill the weak, robery etc.

Because of love God punish.

God is love, everything He does is drive by Love

Matthew 22:40 Context

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. 41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. 43He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
 

Journeyman

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Jan 10, 2019
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who lied God saying the wages of sin is death or Satan saying if you eat the fruit you won't die?
Satan lied. Satan fancied himself as great as God.

At Christ's judgment seat, he will suffer torment as Jesus exposes all the lies he told and be in anguish being humiliated as the nothing he is. After facing our glorious Savior, there will be nothing left of him,

For our God is a consuming fire. Heb.12:29
 

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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Satan lied. Satan fancied himself as great as God.

At Christ's judgment seat, he will suffer torment as Jesus exposes all the lies he told and be in anguish being humiliated as the nothing he is. After facing our glorious Savior, there will be nothing left of him,

For our God is a consuming fire. Heb.12:29
"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Please show me where God said wages of sin is Eternal torment instead of the wages of sin is Death..

The wage of sin is death of the spirit of life .It returns to the father who gave it and the clay returns to the field.

God is a God of mercy. He is not merciless. His grace proves it. Those who have been given a new spirit will rise.

Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 King James Version (KJV) Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
 

Journeyman

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"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Or,

and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages. Rev.20:10 Youngs Literal Translation.

Meaning, when Satan is judged before our Savior,

There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.. Ps.18:8

Just as the beast, false prophet are judged, because Satan really has no preeminence above a man. And at that time, the suffering for is from having their existence exposed. "Ages and ages" refers to the history of the world from beginning to end, not past that.
 

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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Or,

and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages. Rev.20:10 Youngs Literal Translation.

Meaning, when Satan is judged before our Savior,

Just as the beast, false prophet are judged, because Satan really has no preeminence above a man. And at that time, the suffering for is from having their existence exposed. "Ages and ages" refers to the history of the world from beginning to end, not past that.
Actually, it means what it says. The beast and the false prophet will have been thrown into the lake of fire when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, where Satan is seized and thrown into and restricted in the Abyss. After the millennial period, Satan will be released for his last rebellion and will then be thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet where thrown into a thousand years earlier. And Satan, the beast and the false prophet will be tormented day and night forever and ever. The meaning of aion here is never ending, not an age or cycle of time.

Young's literal translation is not the issue, but the meaning of the word "aion" translated as "Foever" should be addressed. As I stated in a previous post, aion and its adjective "aionios" can mean a cycle of time, an age, never ending and having no beginning and no ending, such as God who lives forever and ever.

Here in Revelation 20:10 the beast and the false prophet will be thrown alive into the Abyss when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, where they will be tormented day and night. Then at the end of the thousand years Satan will also be thrown in where they, along with all whose names are not found in the book of life will be thrown in and will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Forever and ever, everlasting and eternal, meaning exactly what they say, which is on-going, never ending torment in the lake of fire.

There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.. Ps.18:8
The verse above is a song of King David when the Lord delivered him from the hand of all his enemies and from the hand of Saul and has nothing to do with Satan's judgment. If you read the entire context you will find that out.
 

tourist

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Mar 13, 2014
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I am afraid of OTHERS going there. We are commanded to love our enemies.
It is God's will and desire that all shall be saved. I have prayed that no one goes to hell. That would make me sad and the bible says that there will be no more tears.
 

tourist

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Mar 13, 2014
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Again, are you sure that the Beast and the False Prophet are normal humans? Even more interesting, we read that Christ preached to the spirits in prison. The question is why.
He was probably trying to secure their release from the place they were being held. Otherwise why preach to them. The bible does say that the Word of God is not returned void so something must have happen as a result of Jesus preaching to the spirits in prison.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Where tha anihilation doctrine from?

Let identified the doctrine.

God say there is serious punishment for sin

God say If you Eat the fruit of knowledge you Will die

Satan say, No Eat It you Will not die

Basically satan Lie and say there is No punishment for sin. If you do not believe, he lower the punishment

Punishment is discourage sin or lower crime rate.

Satan want increase crime rate, so he have to Lie and say there is No punishment, or very low punishment

Hell is not eternal. Do not wory to kill or robe.
 

tourist

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Mar 13, 2014
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But a glorified body for the wicked wouldn't make sense in the case of eternal torment either because if they have a perfect body then eternal torment in hell isn't half as bad.
Maybe this glorified body is flame-proof. Where is the glory in some guy getting a glorified body and then sent to hell to burn? Maybe the word 'glory' is a mis-spelling of 'gory'. Maybe it's just an allegory?
 

Journeyman

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Jan 10, 2019
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Actually, it means what it says. The beast and the false prophet will have been thrown into the lake of fire when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, where Satan is seized and thrown into and restricted in the Abyss. After the millennial period, Satan will be released for his last rebellion and will then be thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet where thrown into a thousand years earlier. And Satan, the beast and the false prophet will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
The big build up of the beasts kingdom (Satan giving him all of his authority, the whole world following in amazement, etc. etc. etc.), makes the idea of Satan deceiving the whole world again 1000 years later not only implausible, but impossible.

The meaning of aion here is never ending, not an age or cycle of time.
It means all ages throughout which Satan committed sin. Satan fears being exposed by Jesus and that fear will be his torment. After being examined by the light of Christ, that will be the end of the devil.

Young's literal translation is not the issue, but the meaning of the word "aion" translated as "Foever" should be addressed. As I stated in a previous post, aion and its adjective "aionios" can mean a cycle of time, an age, never ending and having no beginning and no ending, such as God who lives forever and ever.
I pointed this out in another thread also.

Here in Revelation 20:10 the beast and the false prophet will be thrown alive into the Abyss when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, where they will be tormented day and night. Then at the end of the thousand years Satan will also be thrown in where they, along with all whose names are not found in the book of life will be thrown in and will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Forever and ever, everlasting and eternal, meaning exactly what they say, which is on-going, never ending torment in the lake of fire.
In addition to why there aren't two satanic deceptions of the whole world 1000 years apart,

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. Rev.15:1

There is no more wrath to fall after the beasts empire.

The verse above is a song of King David when the Lord delivered him from the hand of all his enemies and from the hand of Saul and has nothing to do with Satan's judgment. If you read the entire context you will find that out.
Saul was killed in battle, not by the fire of God's mouth.

The fire from God's mouth is symbolic of the judgment of his word. The lake of fire reserved for the wicked, the word Jesus spoke judging in the last day, God as a consuming fire, Jesus coming in fire, tried by fire at the judgment seat of Christ. It all describes the same thing.
 

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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It is God's will and desire that all shall be saved. I have prayed that no one goes to hell. That would make me sad and the bible says that there will be no more tears.
Good day tourist,

You are correct in that, God is not willing that any should perish but have eternal life. However, receiving salvation is dependent upon the first part of the verse, which is believing in Christ. Therefore, those who do not believe will perish. For as the scripture says, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them." God has provided the way, but not everyone responds.

Regarding "that God will wipe away every tear," this is because we will be immortal and glorified and those things and people will no longer come into our thoughts. We will not grieve about those who rejected Christ.
 

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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The big build up of the beasts kingdom (Satan giving him all of his authority, the whole world following in amazement, etc. etc. etc.), makes the idea of Satan deceiving the whole world again 1000 years later not only implausible, but impossible.
Obviously it is not impossible, because the scripture states that Satan is thrown into and restricted in the Abyss during Christ's thousand year reign so that he cannot deceive the inhabitants of the earth during that time. At that end of that thousand he is released from the Abyss and is able to deceive the inhabitants once again, demonstrating man's desire to turn away from God and to follow Satan.

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. Rev.15:1

There is no more wrath to fall after the beasts empire.
The above is referring to the seven bowl judgments which complete God's wrath prior to Christ's return to the earth. Obviously, since the scriptures state that there will be a thousand year period following Christ's return to the earth to end the age and a last rebellion at the end of that thousand years, then there will be.

I believe what the scriptures say, not reinterpret them.
 

Journeyman

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Jan 10, 2019
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Obviously it is not impossible, because the scripture states that Satan is thrown into and restricted in the Abyss during Christ's thousand year reign so that he cannot deceive the inhabitants of the earth during that time. At that end of that thousand he is released from the Abyss and is able to deceive the inhabitants once again, demonstrating man's desire to turn away from God and to follow Satan.
I believe Jesus gave his life in sacrifice and defeated death so that the nations would no longer be deceived. Satan is bound by faith in Jesus.

The above is referring to the seven bowl judgments which complete God's wrath prior to Christ's return to the earth. Obviously, since the scriptures state that there will be a thousand year period following Christ's return to the earth to end the age and a last rebellion at the end of that thousand years, then there will be.

I believe what the scriptures say, not reinterpret them.
I think people who reject Jesus now better think again, because he's coming back here in a fire that will consume the entire universe as we know it.
 

tourist

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Mar 13, 2014
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Good day tourist,

You are correct in that, God is not willing that any should perish but have eternal life. However, receiving salvation is dependent upon the first part of the verse, which is believing in Christ. Therefore, those who do not believe will perish. For as the scripture says, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them." God has provided the way, but not everyone responds.

Regarding "that God will wipe away every tear," this is because we will be immortal and glorified and those things and people will no longer come into our thoughts. We will not grieve about those who rejected Christ.
It seems to me that if God just simply erased our memory of loved ones that didn't make it to heaven it would be the same as lying. If any that I love are not there with me I would cry a river yet God said there would be no more tears.

If there is anything left on my loved ones account after they die God can charge it to my account. Paul did that all of the time. He can take any rewards or treasure that has accrued in my name. Truthfully, I try to do my humble best to serve the Lord but I am not doing it because I might get treasure or crowns in reward but only because I love Him. I'm not in this for the money.

Seems to me that God is more than capable of carrying out His will and desire. If something is God's will and desire you can take it to the bank that whatever it is will be accomplished because God is trustworthy and true.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Please show me where God said wages of sin is Eternal torment instead of the wages of sin is Death..
jesus the Christ offered a living sacrifice as living suffering. His temporal blood was poured into the ground so it could t return to where it was formed of to keep the commandment.

The wrath of God is revealing the working of death in these earthen bodies of death promised in the beginning.It is being revealed from heaven .The new heavens and earth have not arrived. The whole creation moans.

Can't find something that's not there as to what the eyes unless a person walks by faith....not looking to the temporal.

The dead body return to the spiritless dust it was taken from .Dust feels no pain . The corrupted spirit returns to the father who gave it temporarily under law. That law as to the letter will not be part of the new order. Those who did not receive a new born again spirit simply will not rise on the last day . Death by the law of as it is written.It will never rise to judge unbelief in mankind ever more. .

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Please show me where God said wages of sin is Eternal torment instead of the wages of sin is Death..
2. Everlasting Life/Everlasting Contempt
Daniel 12:1-2
At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3. Eternal Fire/The Fire of Hell
Matthew 18:6-9
Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes! And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown

into the eternal fire.

And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.


....or two feed to be throw. Into the eternal fire