Free from sin

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 22, 2015
54
1
0
#81
Look, you've already made up your mind to be a hypocritical viper and no one here is going to convince you to stop. Justify it however you want.
Never ever ask me if someone's salvation is lost - that isn't my decision.
I know what the word of God says and that is good enough for me. You can cling to all the pharisees in the world if you want - they'll sympathize with you and help keep your conscience from bothering you. Birds of a feather and all that, y'know.
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#82
So had David not had the chance to repent, he would have been lost? I don't believe that.
Obviously you are at odds with what the Bible teaches then. The Bible teaches...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

What do you do with that? Do you pretend the Bible doesn't say that?

What about the following...

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

The Bible clearly teaches that pardon being granted is conditioned on a forsaking of evil. Yet you don't believe that? Why not?

Why reject what the Bible plainly teaches?


I believe God looks at our hearts and that he knows that we are fallen creatures. As I said sin is disgusting but we all sin, whether disobedience or minor sins that don't lead to death. It is still sin so you cannot claim to be without sin.
Clearly you believe that 1Joh 1:8 somehow cancels out the repentance and forsaking of sin mentioned elsewhere in the Bible.

Is it possible that 1Joh 1:8-10 is written in the context of coming clean about PAST sin? Is that a possibility in your mind.

Your view is just defending ongoing wickedness. In your view surely you could be raping babies and murdering people and still be saved right? You would surely have to believe that. If willful deception gets a pass why not murder and rape?
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#83
2 Corinthians 5:21 contradicts what you have proposed.

Jesus took my place in judgment and was condemned in my place. Jesus could not die until He took upon Himself my sin. This is vicarious atonement. The blood of innocence for the life of the guilty. The spotless Lamb sacrificed for the sins of man. Adam saw it and knew it when God provided the skins of animals to cover his sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
2Cor 5:21 is not a proof text in isolation.

2Cor 5:21 says not a word about a substitution. In fact it says...

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Immediately after Paul wrote that he wrote...

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

WORKING TOGETHER with God is related to BEING MADE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN HIM.

Working together is not a substitution. We FOLLOW the EXAMPLE of Jesus Christ.

Paul wrote...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who WALK (ie. DOERS) not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

We are made the righteousness of God IN Him, not through substitution, but through ABIDING IN THE SPIRIT.

Satan has concocted a theology that replaces "abide in me" with a substitution. Thus deceived people are able to conclude that they can engage in wickedness and still be saved because the salvation they believe in is rooted in a substitution as opposed to a literal WALK.

In other words Satan has been able to get people to reject DOING as as a condition of salvation. Faith is redefined to being a mere "trust in a provision" instead of being the working principle by which God is received within.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#84
Oh really? You are not a witness for Christ. A living testimony of Gods saving grace?

If you talk the talk you gotta walk the walk.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
And who are you to say that I don't, or who is in the position to say that you don't? My point is no matter what you are, or what I am, that still does not change the truth according to the words of God. Are we to change the Truth in scripture to conform to the image of a sinful man? Or are we told to be transformed into the image of the Son of God?

Everyone who tries to make this personal and about me, only does so to bring accusations. Again, this thread is not about me, or you, but about what the words of God says is true.
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#85
Original Sin and Substitutional views of the death of Christ are the greatest theological errors ever invented by men.

Original Sin = Sin you will and sin you must = sin never stops = obedience to God is impossible = sin is a birth issue not an issue of a defiant will.

Substitution = A cloak for the ongoing wickedness necessitated by adherence to Original Sin doctrine.
 
F

Filledwithhope

Guest
#86
Phil112
Where did I say I have made my mind up to sin??! I strive to not sin every day, and be as perfect as can be. All I said was that I don't believe anyone is perfect and totally free of sin and that I don't agree with all you say
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#87
All I said was that I don't believe anyone is perfect and totally free of sin and that I don't agree with all you say
There's those words again "I don't believe." So do you believe Jesus was just talking here to fill the air with impossible words?

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Would you say to Jesus, oh no Jesus I just don't believe that is possible?
 
P

phil112

Guest
#88
Phil112
Where did I say I have made my mind up to sin??! I strive to not sin every day, and be as perfect as can be. All I said was that I don't believe anyone is perfect and totally free of sin and that I don't agree with all you say
You refuse to accept the fact that Christ said we can go and sin no more. You refuse to accept the fact that Paul said to set aside every weight and the sin which doth so easily beset us. You have resigned yourself to the fact that you will sin, and that you are going to sin again. You have already made that choice by so thinking like that.
You have made your mind up to sin.
 
F

Filledwithhope

Guest
#89
OK then. I will continue to trust in the lord to keep me from sin and we can at least all rejoice that Phill112 never sins and will always be perfect and sinless.
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#90
You refuse to accept the fact that Christ said we can go and sin no more. You refuse to accept the fact that Paul said to set aside every weight and the sin which doth so easily beset us. You have resigned yourself to the fact that you will sin, and that you are going to sin again. You have already made that choice by so thinking like that.
You have made your mind up to sin.
I would beg do differ, Phil. Acknowledging that we are powerless not to sin is not intent to sin.

I believe it is confessing the biblical truth that only by God's grace are we seen as washed pure in Christ. It is not our righteousness we carry. It is His. We don't have any.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#91
Acknowledging that we are powerless not to sin is not intent to sin.
If you are truly born again from above by God's Spirit and truly "In Christ" then you are not "powerless" not to sin. It's the children of the flesh who are powerless, cursed children who cannot cease from sin.

Luke 10:19
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
 

Brandon88

Junior Member
Jun 25, 2015
10
0
0
#92
Amen this is the right attitude to have. We were all born with a sinful nature though so sin is bound to happen so we can't let the devil use that to trap us into thinking we're not saved.
 

Brandon88

Junior Member
Jun 25, 2015
10
0
0
#93
I'm new to the forum just want to say Hi. Just got out of an 11 year battle with the Devil and have gave my life back to Christ.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#94
I'm new to the forum just want to say Hi. Just got out of an 11 year battle with the Devil and have gave my life back to Christ.
Hi Brandon, nice to meet you and welcome to the forums. And glad to hear of your repentance and return to seeking after the Lord. Peace :)
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#95
I have ISIT on ignore therefore I didn't read the opening post. Let me guess, more Pharisee nonsense.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#96
I have ISIT on ignore therefore I didn't read the opening post. Let me guess, more Pharisee nonsense.
Brandon, there is a lot of the above hateful comments going on here, but don't be discouraged, there are a few true born again Holy Spirit filled Christians here. You'll know a tree by it's fruits=words and actions.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#97
Jesus died for the sins of all mankind but He did not serve as a punishment substitute for those sins. Your error is in viewing "Jesus dying for sin" in the context of a "substitution."

There was and is no exchange. You don't swap places with Jesus and Jesus does not swap places with you.


Jesus died on your behalf so that you would follow His example and die too.

What did Jesus say?

Luk 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luk 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Does that sound like a substitution to you?

Jesus was not your substitute, He was your EXAMPLE.

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Is Peter teaching substitution there?

Is Paul teaching substitution in Romans 6?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.


Redemption is via DEATH AND REBIRTH. We die WITH Christ and we are raised WITH Christ. Not in position but in REALITY.

The cross is the means by which God deals with the root of iniquity in the heart of a sinner. The root of sin is destroyed once and for all. Paul personifies it as the "body of sin" which is DESTROYED from which the "service of sin" ceases.

This is why Peter would say...

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
...
1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Being put to death in the flesh is a picture of our old man being crucified in repentance whereby we no longer walk according to the lusts of the flesh. Instead of being driven like base animals we keep ourselves by the Spirit of God in which we abide. We are regenerated from the carnality in which we walked according to our own lusts unto the Spirit filled life where we walk according to the will of God. Salvation is a PRESENT MANIFEST STATE not some position that comes into effect due to some substitutionary legal swap.

Jason I quote you the Bible and you ignore it. Look at your posts about substitution, it is pure rhetoric and conjecture. You completely ignore what the Book of Hebrews teaches. Jesus had to die to bring in the New Covenant because God has ordained that His covenants are sealed by blood. That is why we have the blood of the covenant. Jesus preached the Ministry of Reconciliation to sinners and then sealed His ministry with His death. Jesus put an end to any notion of "law keeping" and preached about the SOURCE of righteousness which is FAITH WHICH WORKS BY LOVE. True righteousness is not via keeping rules and regulations, it is via walking in the same Spirit which Jesus walked in. In other words we are to ABIDE IN THE SPIRIT OF LIFE.
By whose stripes we are healed. How can you be healed if his stripes do not apply to me? You are not making any sense. If it is all us, and none of Christ, then it defeats the purpose why Christ went to the cross.
 
P

phil112

Guest
#98
I would beg do differ, Phil. Acknowledging that we are powerless not to sin is not intent to sin.

I believe it is confessing the biblical truth that only by God's grace are we seen as washed pure in Christ. It is not our righteousness we carry. It is His. We don't have any.
To believe that there are a couple of things that happens in your mind.
The first and worst is that you deny the Spirit's ability and power to help you thru those hard times.
The second, if the first is wrong, is that you don't turn to the Spirit in times of distress.
Which is it? We all go thru hard times. Sometimes we falter, sometimes we're good. The whole problem is that people are accepting defeat before the trial ever gets here.
Flee the devil. Do you know what that means?
How does a man of God deal with temptation? Read about Joseph in Genesis. 39 and 12..."And she caught him by his garment, saying, Lie with me: and he left his garment in her hand, and fled, and got him out."

You people aren't doing that. He ran like a scared rabbit. He got away from temptation. Immediately.
You're rubbing up against it, and when it overcomes you you are saying "oh my, I was afraid of that...well, God knows I'm weak, He knows I can't do it."

You aren't using what God gave you to fight it.

Christ said "Go and sin no more!"

This namby pamby whiny garbage about "whine..I can't help it..whine"
Paul said to man up! 1 Corinthians 16:13.
God does not want spineless, helpless, followers. He wants someone to stand.

Ephesians 6:13 "Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

However true it may be that we have an advocate if and when we sin, we are not supposed to sin. You want your reward burned like stubble? God wants someone that goes thru the fire and it refines them, not destroys them.
1 Corinthians 3:11-13 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
Your foundation is supposed to be Christ. Are you going to tell me that you've built on that foundation and yet your work doesn't stand?
Really?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#99
And who are you to say that I don't, or who is in the position to say that you don't? My point is no matter what you are, or what I am, that still does not change the truth according to the words of God. Are we to change the Truth in scripture to conform to the image of a sinful man? Or are we told to be transformed into the image of the Son of God?

Everyone who tries to make this personal and about me, only does so to bring accusations. Again, this thread is not about me, or you, but about what the words of God says is true.
Why so defensive? It is about you. Just because you are on the internet does not excuse you from your obligation to live for Christ.

Too many around here raise expectations to a level that no man can achieve. I'm all about telling everyone about Christ. Did Jesus ever tell anyone to change before they got saved?

I assure you that Jesus knew that those who got saved would be changed. 2 Corinthians 5:17

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
P

phil112

Guest
I have ISIT on ignore therefore I didn't read the opening post. Let me guess, more Pharisee nonsense.
Friend, it is unseemly for you to admit you don't know what was said and then sit back and snipe at it.